Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 03, 2000 06:37pm | #2

   *
   I don't like to trash another guys work but I use mostly stainless steel screws, sometimes galv screws but mostly stainless.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 12:42am | #3

   *I agree with Ryan. SS square drive with a pattern template.KK

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 03:51am | #4

   *as screws are hard to find up here in the back woods, but hats what I would have used. In my onion a 2" nail is to short even for 3/4" decking.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 04:51am | #5

   *I build decks all the time, and always use screws.SS only at customers request, usually 2 1/2 inch galvanized.I see a lot of people nailing decks althogh far from all of them.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 03:04pm | #6

   *Tony,It's hard to believe that anyone would use uncoated nails on an exterior application like you describe. Are you sure they were not electroplated galvanized? Electroplated nails have a shiny goldish color tint. Personally, I don't like using them, especially were they will show. As stated above, the only real rustless way to go, is stainless.Senco, & other brands sells HD galvanized nails for full round head nailers. Lately, I have been using these in a 3", .120 dia., screw shank variety to secure PT decking and feel that they yield a reasonable job. Personally, I feel that screws for decking boards are a bit ugly.I always use screws for all rails except the post bases which get carriage bolts whenever possible. When doing the balustrade, I like to use my 15 Ga. finish angle gun with SS nails for the assembly, and then lock it together with screws. Stair treads get screws too - for safety reasons.For the last several years, I have been using "Deckmate Evercoat" deck screws. They have what looks like a baked on powder coating (some kind of paint) that has a lifetime guarantee, including in marine applications such as docks. They also appear to have some kind of copper "subcoat". I think they have superior corrosion resistance to HD galvanized, as I have done side-by-side comparison testing. They have good shear strength, as the shanks are fairly thick and the metal seems to be pretty good. The only problem is that, if the person applying any type of coated steel screw is not careful, some stripping of the head can occur, which i will cause rust. These Deckmate screws have a combination square/phillips drive, so you can use either, and they come with a special bit in the 5# boxes which works the best. BTW - no I don't work for whatever company makes Deckmate screws!

2. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 04:15pm | #7

   *Tony:After further consideration, I'm not so sure my previous post addressed the real question you asked.Weather the nails were coated or not, they probably are 2 3/8". As far as the smooth shanks, personally, I feel they don't hold as well, but if you use the Breaktime search function you will find that there some very knowledgeable folks who think that ring shank nails do not hold as well! I think the root of your problem is a combination of 2 things: first and foremost, the shrinkage of the PT lumber makes the nails i appear to have come loose, and secondly, freeze and thaw cycles will loosen i any nail. Wet/dry cycles have a similar effect, although to a lesser degree.Shrinkage of PT lumber is always an issue, even with KDAT (Kiln Dried (again) After Treating) lumber. This is i notthe builders fault as it is unavoidable.Why don't you do some checking around and find out what fasteners other builders i do use on comparable homes in your area? Then you will find out what type of fastener you should have expected without specifying anything specific. For starters, just ask anyone you know if their decking boards are screwed or nailed. I have seen ai lot of decks done with 8p (2 3/8") electroplated nails (none by me).If you want to know the best methods, and what the best builders do, you have come to the right place. If you want to know what "most builders" do you are going to have to do the leg work yourself.Please let us know what you find out!

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 06:39pm | #8

   *For a few years we used what looked like galvanized drywall screws here in the GREAT NORTHWEST for decks and exterior stuff. It turns out these weren't galvanized at all, but some other process called "Dacro" or something. These screws react with cedar and leave really ugly black stains. Now we use a kind of vinal coated screw for this stuff and they seem to work fine. I guess we'll see in a few years. Even hand driven hot dipped galvanized nails are a problem as the wood swells and contracts with moisture fluctuation. I think decks are one place where the new composite materials make a lot of sense.

4. 
   Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 07:30am | #9

   *I agree that smooth-shank nails combined with wood movement are the problem. No one uses nails in this area.There's a self-countersinking stainless screw that we use most of the time here in NJ. Think it's made by Swanzee? We've used the deck clips (screw from below) where looks were important and someone didn't mind going 'below' for a while. The appearance is great but probably twice as long to install.Jeff C.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 10:08pm | #10

   *Yes your deck is substandard. Yes the builder took the quick and easy approach here. Your deck will continue to loosen, the boards will warp and twist with time. Nails are no good in this usage. I'd have to take serious issue with the guy-he pulled a hit and run unless you went low budget on the job. A good example of what a low bidder would do.

6. 
   Guest_ | Mar 06, 2000 04:23am | #11

   *Not reccommended for treated lumber, however, you might want to look into the EB-TY hidden deck fastener. Invisible from the top-side and installed from the top-side this fastener is the best. Take a look http://www.EBTY.com or you can also visit the Swan Secure website or call 1-800-get-ebty.

7. 
   Guest_ | Mar 06, 2000 08:22pm | #12

   *What size SS screws to use? I have used 3-1/2" only because I prefer the heaver #10 screw. 3" screws are #8 and I am concerned about breaking the #8. I hate it when that happens. Of course the 3-1/2" are harder to drive that the 3" and I seem to get more than my share of cam out even when using sq. drives. What is your experience?

2. 
   Drew_Kirk | Mar 07, 2000 03:15am | #13

   *
   How about Simpson's Deck Clips? They automatically space the deck boards and attach the boards with no exposed fasteners. The result is a beautiful deck, but it is a bit difficult to remove a single board in the middle of the deck later if a board goes bad.

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 10, 2000 02:20pm | #14

   *
   Try this. http://www.deckmaster.com/
   Used this on my deck, almost 1 year old. Used 5/4 Cedar, looks great. Lots of work and would recommend only on decks several feet off the ground.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 20, 2000 09:42am | #15

   *Ooh, deckmaster evil to install. See my glue post ... looking for better alternatives.

4. 
   Mike_Catanzaro | Mar 28, 2000 05:20am | #16

   *
   when putting down 5/4 i use 8d ring galv or 3"ring
   galv in my nail guns.Exteior glue on the joists helps
   too.Senco makes a dam good nail for this it fits in
   just about any clipped head gun.They redeseignened the head to look like a full round
   head nail.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 28, 2000 10:32pm | #17

   *
   With 2 by 4 or 6 i often toe nail through the edges just below the face with 16d, Tree Island brand, hot dip, ardox (spiral), casing nails. This results in a deck with very few fastners through the top of the board. Tree Island brand nails made in Canada are simply the best made nails offered to the North American consumer. Most other nails sold today are garbage compared to Tree Island.

   joe d

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 29, 2000 04:11am | #18

   *I've been using senco's screw shank deck nail (clipped head) for a couple years & they have been working fine. Ring shanks pull out to easy.

6. 
   M&M_Carpentry_Mike_C | Apr 04, 2000 06:12am | #19

   *
   Rob,
   have read the article on the difference
   in holding power of a ring shank nail compared to screw shank it's 6 times greater in favor of the
   ring nail because the nail does not spin when
   being fired out of a nailgun

7. 
   Guest_ | Apr 04, 2000 01:54pm | #20

   *
   Mike C:

   You say "
   i have read the article on the difference in holding power of a ring shank nail compared to screw shank
   "

   I'd be very interested in reading that article since there has been many different opinions on the holding power of different types of nails here (over the years) but I have seen nothing resembling actual data to back those opinions. The only "data" I have to go on is what happens when I need to pull a nail.

   Please give a specific reference to "
   i the article
   " - publication name, date, etc.

   Thanks

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 05, 2000 06:39am | #21

   *I have to agree with Mad Dog on this one. "You got took" Frankly, in this day and age I find it hard to believe anyone would use nails instead of screws on deck boards. But then again, if there weren't any low-ballers out there, shotgunning stuff together, we'd lose half of our discussion topics in breaktime wouldn't we?

8. 
   John_Jag | Apr 15, 2000 08:20pm | #22

   *
   I'm building a deck with TREX and don't want to see any surface nails. I'd like to use Deckmaster or Shadoetrack fasteners but they are cost prohibitive. Has anyone been successful using Dec-Klips or DeckONE, or Simpson side fasteners on 5/4" x 6" TREX?

   Also Would Timbertech or Nexwood be batter than TREX?

9. 
   Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 08:06am | #23

   *
   I'm a firm believer in pneumatic nailers, except for exposed decking. I nail it by hand. Pressure treated southern yellow pine is the most comman material for decks in my area of Florida. For 5/4 decking I use 12d spiral shank galvanized nails and 16d for 2x6. With 2x6 decking I use a 8d nail space between boards, 5/4 gets nail up tight. Why, because I know it's going to shrink. Hand driven nails allow me or the deck owner to go back and tighten up after shrinkage. I've tried galvanized screws and many times they seize up and can not be retighten after the wood shrinks. I also frame the deck with spirals prefering the over ringshanks. A 2" nail sounds like 1x material was used for decking, something else I do not do.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 17, 2000 07:13pm | #24

   *FWIW, I've heard 1x Ipe is fine for decking, that's how strong and stable the wood is...The screws would "seize" -- do you mean they'd get stripped out when you tried to tighten them? Would it be better to remove the screw and drive a new one down the same hole?I recently used SS screws, a soft material easily stripped out, to screws down cranky pt boards that had been left out all winter. I usually put a dot of glue underneath, but this project was Q&D ... I did predrill for the screw shanks -- a lot less hassle than I thought it would be, I just walked around with the locked-on drill punching holes -- so that the 3" screws would be sure to draw the board tight against the joist without counterboring themselves.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 02:38am | #1

   *Andrew D. When I stated "the screws would seize", I meant just that. That the 3" galvanized screw would not drive deeper to tighten up the decking or unscrew itself from the board to be replaced. About the only thing they would do, is ream out the phillips head. This is especially true for 2x6 PT. I've had some success with a mechanic's impact driver with a phillips bit, but not a 100%. Our southern yellow pine is treated locally and arrives quite wet. In the Florida sun it doesn't take long to dry out and turn to stone.

10. 
    Mike_Catanzaro | Apr 18, 2000 02:52am | #25

    *
    Matt
    If you e-mail me your address i will mail you a copy of this article
    what magazine it is out of i do not know.My nail supplier gave it to me
    Thank you
    Mike C

11. 
    Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 04:41am | #26

    *
    Stainless Steel twisted shank nails, number eight. and SS shingle nails for nailing any trim, railings and ballusters...no staining, no screwing, hold veryu well...all hand driven...I would never air nail a deck...Docks...i use the screws mentioned earlier from Home Depot...Buy extra bits as they snap often. I now have some neat clips to try on my next deck so as to show no fasteners... and Maranti wood...for my next deck to(o)...

    near the Maranti blind clipped stream,

    aj

12. 
    John_Jag | Apr 18, 2000 11:30pm | #27

    *
    I wanted to try Deckmaster but am also looking at Shadoetrack. Were you happy with the Deckmaster hardware? Were the deck boards secure? I'd appreciate any tips you can give me. I'm using 5/4/x 6 TREX.

13. 
    Tony_Beck | Apr 18, 2000 11:30pm | #28

    *
    We recently built a vacation home at Deep Creek Lake in western Maryland. The builder installed the decking (pressure treated pine) using a nail gun with ~2 inch smooth shank nails. This area receives lots of snow in the winter and rain the remainder of the year. It was, therefore, no surprise to us that every board on the exposed portion of the deck loosened within a couple of months. When asked why he didn't install the decking with hot dipped galvanized nails or deck screws we were told that "most builders use nail guns". We feel that the builder took the fast and cost effective shortcut leaving us with a substandard, squeaky deck. Who is correct?

14. 
    tbird303 | Jan 20, 2005 09:59pm | #29

    GUEST:

    LOCAL REMODELER, BUILDING DECK 16 X 28, DECKING SHALL BE SPLIT

    IN MIDDLE AT 14', BOARDS 45 DEGREES, 12" OC.

    5/4 #2 BOARD,

    WHAT IS A GOOD SCREW GUN OR NAILER TO USE?

    OR SHOULD i REALLY JUST USE SCREWS? DECK ON MY OWN HOUSE!

    TBIRD303

1. 
   AndrewG | May 17, 2005 08:25pm | #58

   Tbird,

   If ever there was a (mechanical) screw worth getting excited about.....our local lumber yards started carrying a screw marketed under the name of "profit" because of the new ACQ treated lumber that will rust through most conventional deck screws.

   I am so crazy about it I have bought boxes of 1000 in every size made and it is the ONLY thing I'll use now, anywhere. The finish is way beyond rusting ; it is a buggle-head screw, which is perfect for holding wood without requiring counter-sinking; it is a torque drive (the ONLY screw head that I have never had strip on me)- and, if that's not enough, the end is slotted so that it drills it's own pilot hole. All you have to do is give it a tap with a hammer to set the slotted head set and then drive it home. NO joke, and no exaggeration.

   Go on-line to http://www.nationalnail.com/Article.asp?ID=332 or google "National Nail Profit Platinum Series Deck screw"

   Andrew

   Edited 5/17/2005 1:27 pm ET by Andrew

15. 
    tango | Jan 20, 2005 10:04pm | #30

    GUEST:

    NOT SURE IF MY REQUEST GOT THROUGH?

     

    TBIRD

1. 
   chills1994 | Jan 21, 2005 02:18am | #31

   a SS screw with a square head is my first choice for PT pine

   a tan colored (powdered coated?) phillips headed screw is my first choice for cedar

   it takes a long, long time but i prefer to predrill everything with one of those pilot countersink bits.

   especially near the ends

   i liked the look of cedar, especially the quartersaw/ flat grained boards

   but if you don't keep up with  the maintennance, stain it'll end up looking just like PT pine

2. 
   BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:56am | #32

   nail gun

3. 
   BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:56am | #33

   screw gun

16. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:58am | #34

    nail gun

17. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:58am | #35

    screw gun

18. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:58am | #36

    hammer

19. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:59am | #37

    glue

20. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:59am | #38

    g

21. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 04:59am | #39

    dsfg

22. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:00am | #40

    fdgfsgfd

23. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:00am | #41

    sdgfsdg

24. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:00am | #42

    fggdsgasda

25. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:00am | #43

    bn,uyouyipo

26. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:01am | #44

    =-09876543

27. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:01am | #45

    jkfds

28. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:02am | #46

    gsdfDA

29. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:02am | #47

    HGFDSEAw

30. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:02am | #48

    UOIYTR

31. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:03am | #49

    VHBGCZX

32. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:03am | #50

    LJKFDSKJLHFG

33. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:03am | #51

    OIUYTEWRS

34. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:03am | #52

    JK,MHNBCZXV

35. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:03am | #53

    8+65321

36. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:04am | #54

    HJMBNFGDC

37. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:04am | #55

    BNMVCXZ

38. 
    BAYbuilding | Jan 21, 2005 05:04am | #56

    NM, BHGVDC

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 21, 2005 05:35am | #57

   WTF?!?