I’m in the process of tearing down an old deck and building a new deck at my home. I’ve got two more old posts to remove before I can begin building the new deck. A friend of mine is also building a deck, and we’ve been talking and comparing progress. He’s got all of his framing complete and is ready to install decking boards.
When I looked at his framing I noticed that all of his joist hangers were screwed in using deck screws. He said that he used screws at the direction of his father. His father has been a carpenter for 40 plus years. I looked at some of the extra screws and they look like ordinary deck screws.
I planned on using nails for the joist hangers I have. The nails I bought are 16d galvanized made by Simpson, the same company that made the hangers. Could I use screws in place of nails for the joist hangers, or are nails the better choice? Are there special screws for joist hangers?
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Simpson does make special screws for certain applications, but not for hangers IIRC.
Deck screws might or might not work, but over time I would expect a higher incidence of failure. They are not tested and approved for this use.
One thing you don't say for sure, but odds are high that he built framing with ACQ PT lumber. As the screws were wound into the hardware, the coating was scratched off, so it will not be long before they rust right off. The structural connection fasteners in ACQ MUST be stainless steel or double hot galvanized.
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I tried to track some down once for a tight-squeeze, crawl-in retrofit. I goolgled it, and was all excited when I was successful. Then I noticed that I was in a website in New Zealand.Sigh.AitchKay
I would suggest that you use nails in the hangers just as specified by Simpson or whatever manufacturer you have. Depending on the particular hanger, some nails (hot dipped galvanized, BTW) specified will be 16d, some 8d, and MANY will be spec'd. as teco hanger nails (again hot dipped galv., there are two common sizes of tecos).
There MAY be some specialty hangers for your application that use screws, but I have not seen them. Common 'pedestrian' joist hangers use NO screws- don't use screws, their effective diameter for the available holes in the hanger is not big enough.
If your job is inspected, the screws WILL NOT PASS.
<If your job is inspected, the screws WILL NOT PASS.>Depends where OP is and who's inspecting. I had an inspector for a while about a year and half ago who suggested deck screws.Not saying it's a good idea, just that inspector's discretion goes a long way. j
I would not use deck screws in joist hangers for several reasons:
1) Inspector would fail the job as "not the specified fastener".
2) Some may not be ACQ compatible - most are though.
3) A flat head screw driven into a hanger can get mighty stressed when the bottom of the taper starts pulling up against the hanger. A little overdrive can be a very bad thing.
4) If for some reason you want to use screws, the hanger manufacturers make specialty screws which are compatable with and approved for use with at least some of their hangers.
Your post implys that the use of screws is somehow faster than using nails.
A judiciously applied palm nailer will certainly give screws a run for their money time wise and always pass inspection.
A positive placement hanger nail gun will beat the screws for sure.
Jim
"Some may not be ACQ compatible - most are though."Addendum to that thought.While many are approved for PT lumber. that is when used as specified - which is to hold the decking DOWNHolding the porch UP is an entirely different use, and as I mentioned already, using them in metal scrapes the coatings off and exposes the metal to the copper and rain so they can rust off in a couple years.several folks have even noted that they have pulled deck screws in decking after only a few months and seen great corrosion, because just the friction of screwing in can take an appreciable amt of the coating off.I only trust SS in ACQ, but it is more brittle than steel, so definitely not appropriate for shouldering up against metal hangers
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>> I only trust SS in ACQ,...<<
Me too.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You forgot to mention that you must never use stainless fasteners in galvanised hangers (or vice versa).
I don't know if stainless hangers are available, but I do know that galvanised fasteners will not (as you point out) handle the corrosive action of ACQ if the zinc coating is scratched or rubbed off.
But if he tries to go one better and uses stainless screws with galvanised joist hangers, the dissimilar metals will engage in a pissing contest that will result in that deck falling down...sooner rather than later.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I don't know how clear it was but we were in change of conversation to decking being screwed I use the hot galv nails and TECO nails for the hardware. There are stainless hangers made, I hear, but I haven't seen them
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>>There are stainless hangers made, I hear, but I haven't seen them<<
Fairly common here, the closer you get to the beach communities, the more common they become.
Not a big box item, but the real yards stock them in common sizes. $$$$$.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Well, as a thank you for pointing out the corrosive effects of stainless and galvy together, I happened to see these this morning while flipping through the McFeelys catalogue. I assume they'll ship to Canada.
Stainless Simpson Post Caps, Post Bases and Joist Hangers, as well as EZ Stair brackets and Decklok/Raillok items
Also Simpson Stainless Framing connectors'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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I did include that technical tidbit about galvanised + stainless in the 'What's the Difference?' article on galvanised nails that I wrote last year for the mag, but by the time the editors got thru pruning it to fit in the space allotted by the art dept., that info kinda wound up as a one-line afterthought.
See? Bandwidth problems even exist in print media....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Most SS fasteners that one will encounter are austenitic SS (300 series). These SS "work harden" very easily and this property has saved many a connection from catastrophic failure,--until the distortion is noticed during an inspection. This series of SS is widely used in marine applications. Have you ever tried to simply drill a hole in a 300 series SS with common home tools?
Ferritic SS (400 series) work hardens at about the same rate as regular low carbon steel.
Martinsitic stainless tool steels (used in knives) are another matter.
Why do you write things of which you know nothing?
Don't use screws. Screws are hardened so the heads don't strip out which also makes the steel more brittle. Also the diameter is smaller which not only means less metal for support, but a more concentrated load on the wood fibers.
Don't use hangers and you won't have that problem!
:)
Don't build a deck and you won't have the problem!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Old boomers still hung up on nails.
Do you even bother to read the entire thread?
When I was doing some repairs on my deck a year back I found some purpose-made hanger screws at HD.
Yes, rated for shear and made for the purpose intended.