Replies

1. 
   noone51 | Sep 29, 2002 09:27pm | #1

   Assuming your not concerned about code, you can probably use deck screws. Do not confuse deck screws with dry wall screws though and remember that a 16d nail has a shear strength of 600lbs. If your deck screws have the same shear strength, you're probably o.k. Personally, I'd go rent or borrow a nail gun and compressor and shoot it with 16's. The cost might be pretty close to the cost of the deck screws. If nothing else its definitly faster.

1. 
   jonblakemore | Sep 30, 2002 08:23pm | #7

   I'm curious as to where your 600 lb. figure comes from?Jon Blakemore

2. 
   DaveMason2 | Sep 29, 2002 10:23pm | #2

    I agree with no one. I mean... well you know what I mean.

     What concerns me is the fact that it is a two story building. I'm not sure if I would use screws to connect the bottom plate of the upper walls to the floor or the exterior sheathing. I would definetly use 8d nails for the sheathing ,assuming it will be 1/2" OSB or CDX, and 16d nails for the bottom plate.

                                                                               My two cents, Dave

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 30, 2002 03:39am | #3

   Just trying to be disagreeable, HUH?

   Actually, I've been thinking on this all day with one little dusty corner of my mind. Yes, you can build it with good structural screws if you know what screws to get. In remodeling, I use a lot of Reiser screws from GRKCanada with nice torx heads. Screwing things together helps stop slam bangs from transferring through to th other side of the house and cracking plaster or popping nails.

   But screws are a lot more expensive. I'm not sure of the size of this building but it sounds like more than your average DIY crackerbox. That means that it won't be long before you've spent a heap on screws. I am not going to run the numbers for you but it seems to me that you could buy a Paslode Impulse framer and have it paid for and have fun with it - not to mention that any excuse to buy a new tool is good to have.

   I'll bet you're salivating right now over the thought of a red toolcase in the toolshed....

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   PaulCoffin | Sep 30, 2002 06:51am | #4

   Thanks, everyone.

   The stand alone shed is relatively small, roughly 11' x 13', though I have just bought an amazing amount of lumber for just the framing of the ground floor walls.  40 studs times 3 16d nails at each end is alot of hammering, but renting an air nailer is out of the question - I'll have trouble working on it for long periods at a time.  Buying one might be a possibility - my wife was impressed by how much less foul language she heard when I used one for interior trim. 

   I've taken the comments on the shear strength of screws to heart.  I think I'll try hammering and see how it goes, then, perhaps, rationalize why I need the air nailer.  The prices looks okay, $200-$400.  Any recommendations on which make and model?

   Now, if I can only figure out what to do about the out of level foundation (3.5" in 10 ft), but that is another post.

   Thanks again,

   Paul

1. 
   whancock64 | Sep 30, 2002 08:02am | #5

   Think I'd post that out of level thing under a different name, wouldn't want folks to think I was that off ;-)

   Also, see the earlier posts about pawn shops. I know I'll get shot for this, but you MAY find a good deal there. I bought an old framer and it was well worn, but it works okay. There was a great article in FHB on framing nailers not too long ago. March 2002, #145, pg 68. Article was by Rick Arnold and Mike Guertin. They seemed to like the Makita coil framer for balance with good power, the Max coil was Rick's first choice of coils. Their stick framers were a Bostich N88RH and a Max. Coils are nice with the round heads and big loads, why I got mine. They also mentioned getting a Grex or Jamerco if the prices were low like a good sale.

   There are also the 'kits' where you get a nailer and a compressor all in one. My pop works for a division of the company that owns Thomas Compressors, so that nailed the compressor decsion for me.

2. 
   joeh | Sep 30, 2002 05:58pm | #6

   Paul, just check the "Classified" section here on Breaktime. I've got an old Stanley Bostich framer for sale for $50, there's probably another 50 of us reading your post with old heavyweights sitting on a shelf.

   If you aren't using it all day, those old clunkers work fine. And mine isn't stolen either.

   The truth, the craving for new tools is what gets many of those old guns that still work hung up. Woke up one day & discovered I had waaaaaaaaaay too much money in my pockets so I bought a new one.

   Joe H

1. 
   BossHog | Sep 30, 2002 08:33pm | #8

   "just check the "Classified" section here on Breaktime."

   WHAT classified section ???

   Are you not allowed access to that without knowing the secret handshake or something ???

   I decided to get in shape, and the shape I chose was a sphere.

2. 
   joeh | Sep 30, 2002 08:57pm | #9

   Boss, the Classifieds are just ONE of the many Pisspro improvements that'll be here any day. Patience my son, good things come to those who wait. Guess that's why I haven't had any callzzzzzzzzzzzz? Joe H

3. 
   bobl | Sep 30, 2002 10:29pm | #10

   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/list.asp?webtag=tp-knots&ctx=512&cacheTag=x30-12

   bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's cheat sheet

   Edited 9/30/2002 3:30:58 PM ET by bobl

2. 
   JohnSprung | Oct 02, 2002 01:00am | #11

   I also looked at the screw thing a while ago, mainly because I wanted to minimize damage to existing decorative plaster.  What I ended up doing is getting access to the back side of the plaster and squirting yellow wood glue between it and the old lath.  That strengthened it enough to survive the framing work.  That was easier than getting LADBS to OK screws.

   The pros for screws: 

   Substantially stronger in resistance to being pulled out.

   No impact transferred to the existing structure.

   Easier to put in, especially in the confined spaces and awkward positions common in remodeling.

   The cons:

   Not accepted by most building departments.  Their main problem is telling the good expensive structual screws from cheap brittle dry wall screws.

   Less shear strength unless you get the really good expensive ones.

   They're expensive.

   -- J.S.

3. 
   MarkH128 | Oct 02, 2002 04:10am | #12

   Part of the joy of building is hammering nails by hand. Smashed fingers, blisters, cuts, bruises, nerve damage, tendonitis etc means you're working hard (and probably not used to it). I'm getting a bit teary eyed thinking about it. Makes for great memories.

4. 
   Catskinner | Oct 02, 2002 04:14am | #13

   I suppose this has already been covered but it needs to be said directly so there is no ambiguity.

   Do not use the standard gold deck screws for structural framing. They have no appreciable shear strength.

   Sad but true, I have seen a person fall through a temporary guardrail that was fastened with gold screws around a stairwell. The screws broke.

   DRC

1. 
   rng22 | Oct 02, 2002 04:58am | #14

   My bad experience with deck screws went like this:  building forms for a 12000 gallon LP gas tank.  Four foot of concrete underground and 4 foot above ground.  used lots of 3/4 plywood for forms and thought of the ease of dismantling the forms and how much plywood I would save over nailing together.  When I started to vibrate the concrete one screw broke which stressed another and another.  Got it stopped with nails and more 2 x 4s.  Have a slight smile on the big pour of concrete that reminds me often "DON'T USE CHEAP SCREWS FOR STRENGTH."