Because this pertains to office/business issues that most builders/contractors/construction professionals deal with, I feel it is important to post it here in the Business folder, where it will get public exposure.
But the wording in my initial post was probably inappropriate, because I was angry. So I’m posting the same story again, in the public business folder, and re-wording with a family audience in mind. I don’t know if this will allow it to remain in the public eye, but I feel that its important enough to justify trying.
If it gets deleted, OK I understand, that probably means that specific problems with business system suppliers are not to be posted in a public venue. If it gets moved to the Tavern, I’ll probably delete it myself, because there is already a thread in the Tavern addressing this.
I got a promotional ad in the mail from Dell computers, stating that there was a sale on the Vostro 1000 laptop, for $399 as opposed to the regular price of $569. Since the ad had a phone number, I called it. Told them I was thinking of getting a new computer for my office, and could they tell me about the one on sale? I asked if there was somewhere in my town I could purchase it. ‘No’, they said, ‘you’ve gotta buy it through us.’
I asked a few questions, and the salesman seemed a little impatient, but answered me. Finally he said, “We don’t have any more of these, but you can buy a laptop for $499.”
“OK”, I asked, “what’s the model number for that price?”
He said it was the same model number.
“But didn’t you just tell me that you don’t have any more?
“Right. We don’t have any more that are on sale. But for the $499 pricetag, we have plenty more.”
I said “But the sale doesn’t end until November 26th, and its only November 21st.”
“Yes”, he explained, “but the fine print it says “subject to availability”. We don’t have any more available. Unless you wanna spend $100 more, then we have plenty available.”
“OK”, sez I, “you know what? – let’s forget about the Vostro 1000. The ad says you have a Vostro 200 on sale for $349. Can you tell me about that? It says it comes with Windows Vista, or I can upgrade to Windows Vista Business for $99 more. I think I’d like to get this one, with the upgrade, but can you tell me the difference in buying the upgrade?”
“Look, are you going to buy this right now? Because I’m here to sell these things, not answer your questions!”
“OK”, I say, “but I asked if there was a salesperson in town I could talk to, and you said No. Obviously I would ask these questions of the salesperson, but since I have to buy it from you, I’m gonna ask you.”
So he says, “Go research it on the internet, my time is important, and I get judged by my quota, and right now you’re holding me up.”
“Well, as it turns out, my time is just as important as yours, and I can’t waste my time arguing when all I need is a few simple questions answered. I’m sorry you dislike your job so much you feel the need to be rude to your customers.”
(sarcastically) “No, I love my job.”
“I doubt it – my workers love their job, and they show it by the way they treat our customers.”
Just then another call came through on my cell phone, so I took my other call.
After I took care of the other call, and calmed down, I called back to tell Dell their lack of customer relation skills were losing customers for them. The man who answered barely spoke intelligible English, and said, as near as I could tell, “I’m sorry, and is there anything else I can do for you today?”
“Nah. Unless you have Gateway’s phone number.”
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 11/22/2007 2:31 am by Huck
Replies
So you're not getting a Dell, dude?
That is a seriously bizzare story. It makes me wonder if there's a little skimming off the top going on.
I went to the Dell website and I was looking at their prices and thought "this looks pretty good!"
Then I realized they charge extra for Windows Vista Operating System, etc.
It's getting harder and harder trying to compare computers on a website vs walmart vs Best Buy
Thats one of the reasons I love MAC so much. Beside being a great computer, I can walk into a apple store and talk to someone about what ever and they are very good about giving the info out. PLus all repairs are done on sight at the store.
Though a little pricey, I bought mine last Jan and my one this past Oct.
they charge extra for XP too...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
It's getting harder and harder trying to compare computers on a website vs walmart vs Best Buy.
My computer died recently, so I was trying to do the comparison thing. With about a bazillion different options and prices, I finally gave up and built my own. Reasonably simple to find out the top performers for each of the components (although I did not get THE top of each component!!), and putting one together these days is ridiculously easy.
$1400 for a machine (desktop) that my teenage son drools over when he looks inside. (This price includes a 19" LCD monitor and Windows XP Pro; does not include case or keyboard--those were reused.) Most expensive box I've had for a long time, but it runs sooooo nicely--fast, quiet, cool (temperature).
Kathleen
It's great when you get your computer running fast and now you,re in good shape for the next 4-5 years?My daughter bought a brand new HP Laptop computer 5 years ago and it was the worst computer we've ever had. It would run hot and freeze up. We bought several "stations" to set it on with fans that would try to cool it off but it didn't seem to help.It was slow. The hard drive went out a couple of weeks after the one year anniversary and so we had no warranty.It finally quit on her a month or so ago and I've got to find her something - cheap. I don't have $1,400 for her to buy a computer that's for sure.I like HP printers and they have worked really well for me. I have three HP printers right now including one that is a laser printer.I was talking to someone the other day and they were very happy with their HP laptop. You just never know.
Count me happy with my HP laptop.Except a sticcky C key
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Don''t even get me started on what a crappy company Dell is. The worst, worst, WORST company I have ever dealt with. My blood pressure is going up just thinking about how lousy their customer service is. A couple of years ago I bought a laptop from them. It came with a one year warranty and I didn't buy any extended coverage. About 18 months after I bought it, they recall the battery because they are overheating and catching fire. So I follow their instructions and return the battery. Get a new one, no problems, everything seems good. A day or two after installing the new battery, the computer stops working. It won't turn on. So I call Dell, and they tell me since my warranty has expired they can't help me. If I want them to help I have to purchase exteneded warranty coverage on the spot for $50.00. "How do you want to pay for that, check or credit?" asks someone who can barely speak English. I say I don't want to pay for it, I want someone to fix my computer that was working fine until I installed the new battery. This conversation went on for about 15 minutes. I asked for a supervisor, and the guy hung up on me. I must have called every number for Dell I could find, each number at least 2 or 3 times, trying to get someone to help me. I even called the company that was handling the battery recall and although they were sympathetic, friendly and spoke English, they couldn't help. I will never buy another Dell product again. Next time I need a computer I'm going to my local store and getting them to build me one. I'll gladly pay the extra cost in order to get good service.
Should we assume that you are not typing this on a Dell?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ironically, I am typing this on a Dell. The computer I was talking about I bought for my wife. The computer I am typing on now stopped working about 9 months after I bought it. This one was still under warranty so the technical genius from Dell was actually willing to spend a few precious minutes with me as he read from his list of questions. He determined I needed a new mother board. He said Dell would send me a new one and then after I received it I was to call them and they would schedule and appointment with a field technician. Meanwhile, I'm without a computer and can't do any accounting work or run my CNC machine.I get the motherboard a few days later and they schedule a service call. The guy never showed when scheduled, twice. Both times I called Dell and they said they would take care of it. I asked them over and over to just give me the number of the guy coming to do the install and I would call and schedule with him myself. They said they couldn't do that. After hammering on them for about an hour I finally got someone to give me the number of the company that schedules the installs. Danced through hoops with them (again, non-english speaker) for a few hours over 2 days. Finally got them to give me the number of the guy who would be doing the install. Left him about 15 messages--never heard back from him. Finally, I get a call from somone saying the guy is at my house and there is no one there to let him in. First of all, the guy wasn't scheduled to come that day. Second, I was sitting in my house when they call, and had been home all day, so I know the guy hasn't been there. And third, I bought the computer through my business and all the paperwork in in the name of my business. My house address doesn't appear anywhere and I've never given it to them, so why is the guy coming to my house anyway? No one can answer that question. This was a Saturday. Monday morning I get a call from the install company saying their technician had been at my house several times on Saturday and there was no one home. I explain that this is not possible for all the reasons I stated above and THE GIRL REFUSES TO BELIVE ME!! When I asked her what address the guy was going to, she said she didn't have that information. "Don't you schedule the service calls?" I ask? "Yes", she replies. "Well, then how do you schedule a call if you don't have the address?"Her response is to get nasty and tell me that if I am not going to cooperate they can't help me. I said fine, I don't want your help, I'll figure out how to install the mother (efing) board myself.The amazing thing is that later that day, for no apparent reason, the computer starts working again. I hadn't done anything to it and hadn't even begun trying to install the mother board. Then, about a week later, I get ANOTHER mother board in the mail from Dell.Great way to run a business.Did I mention that I think Dell is the worst company in the history of the world? I gotta go take my blood pressure medication......
I know a guy who used to be a computer "Field Technician" and he would make "house calls" to fix computers under warranty.The pay was lousy and he quit.
take two motherboards and call me in the morning
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Great, now I'm gonna have to get a new keyboard. When I read your reply I spit my "blood pressure medication" all over the place!
As a ignorant who can't spll or tipe I reference to pc mag. In the old days you could actually think of subject matter questions and find it on their web site. Now you better remember the issue # and pull it off your shelf.
But a pretty good over view of the state of disarray in Vol.26 No.20 Oct 16-07 PC Mag. "Who Can You Trust" Support and Reliability.
Annual reader satisfaction survey.
http://www.pcmag.com/current_issue/0,1913,i=1967,00.asp
I'm looking at the issue( in hand ) and the article Is on page 56. Online I'm not sure if they are offering it. Hmm maybe that's how they sell mags/rags.
With a little more hunting , well worth the reading if you in the market.
http://www.pcmag.com/category2/0,1738,1626131,00.asp
Edited 11/23/2007 5:04 pm by ClaysWorld
Andy once ya go MAC ya wont go back.
I had a problem with my MAC walked into a apple store made a stand by appt with a MAC Tech (genius) ad he helped me right on the spot. They always do. Plus they do their own repairs right ther in house.I chipped the key bord cover on this lap top... went to a Apple Store the local one. They told me they were goig to be shut down for a few days and b/c they were going through remodeling and needed to set the store up.
No problem, I told them I was going to Phoenix ( I live in SoCal) they said that they would be open when I get back..So I thought well they have apple stores in phoenix and I took it to the Phoenix store at about 630pm and they told me it would be ready tomorrow by noon. Well about 730 that same evening they called me and told it was done. I went and got picked it up..No problem :>)Great CS..
My wife and I always had Dells, for work, and my son always got stuck with our older computers as we bought new ones. He wanted a new computer and I told him if he got straight A's I'd buy him a new computer. So he did, but wanted to build his own. He's twelve years old. So he orders a box of parts from NewEgg; was I ever stressed out. My brother and I took off early on a Friday to watch and see if we could help. We drank beer and helped with a screw driver, here and there.After watching the process I won't ever buy a pre-built computer again. He got a lot of help from people on message boards. It was less expensive then a pre-built machine with the same specs. From the stuff I've seen you guys build, on this board, putting together a computer is really no big deal. Here's his dream machine: http://www.zachworx.com.View Image
Wow, I'm impressed. Could you ship him to Calif. for a couple days?View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
jocobe,What did all that cost ?That would pretty much be my dream machine as well, except...I don't need two monitors.I don't need vista.I don't need the joystick.I don't need the gaming keyboard.I don't need the webcam.I don't need the mouse.I don't need the printer.I don't need the microphone.Wondering how much it would be without all those extras...
Everybody is born a hero.
Taking out what you don't need, about $800.00 to $1,000.00..View Image
Whuf.
Everybody is born a hero.
Man, that's quite a set up your son put together. Maybe when I need a new computer I'll have him build me one!
Hey Ron. Yea, next time I need a new computer I'm gonna give Macs a serioius look. I might be stuck with a PC though since I'm not sure my CNC router and cad program will work with Mac.
The reason that MAC offer windows was to take away that concern. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
I tell ya Andy at first I wasn't sure about MACs. I only had this one since Jan. But after I signed up for what they call One to One.. pay 100 bucks and they train you one hour a week for a year on how to use the MAC programs, I just just started really enjoying my compuer for the first time in many years of owning one. I got to renew it as it expires next month.
I just bought my son macbook laptop in Oct. B/C thats what they used in school and felt he needed one for his studies (8th grade) and I travel a lot( soon maybe out of the country for a while on bizness dont know fer sure yet but there is a possibility) and the webcam I bought for our windows PC wouldn't work right. So I thought why not b/c MACs come with a built in Cam. It worked perfect when I went to phoenix. could talk and see the entire family including my dog.When I bought the laptop for my boy they set it up for us right in the store. They downloaded the AIM helped him set it up so we could video chat using the web cams..
before we even left the store.I would seriously talk to the MAC folks or Gerrald Hayes who is a big MAC guy who frequent these forums. He used his for contraction and has his own website for using MAC'shttp://www.mac4construction.com/anyway. check it out,BTW for the folks that dont know me, I have no , zero , nada, affiliation with Apple or any computer/ tech company.
This is a just a good product. That does everything I need a computer to do.
Did you ever find out what the problem was and if it was related to the new battery?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
No, I never did find out what the problem is. After giving up trying to get help from Dell I took it to a local computer guy and he could not get it to turn on. He figured the problem was most likely with the mother board, but he couldn't be sure. He said I would be better off buying a new computer for what it was going to cost to fix this one, so I never bothered to get it fixed. I was finally able to get it to turn on one day and it now sits at home, on all the time, and is used for kids homework and playing games, and that's about it. If it gets turned off accidentally I can usually get it to turn back on by giving it a sharp slap in the vicinity of the F6 and F7 keys. (Don't ask how I figured this out.)Chances are the battery is not the issue, and I realize that. But Dell was basically trying to extort $50 out of me before they were even willing to discuss whether the battery, that they had just replaced, might be the problem. That, combined with the way they repeatedly treated me like #### on the phone, refused to talk to me, bounced me around from person to person, repeatedly disconnected me, gave me numbers to call that were no longer in service, etc. really ticked me off.
It finally quit on her a month or so ago and I've got to find her something - cheap. I don't have $1,400 for her to buy a computer that's for sure.
I've had excellent success buying used computers on ebay: 3 Toshiba laptops (4 years ago? for about $350 each) and a VERY nice e-Machine 2 months ago ($183, desktop). I look for an individual who is selling because they've upgraded, rather than someone who buys machines in bulk and refurbishes them. I also look for someone who provides plenty of information in the listing and is responsive to e-mails. Took me about a month to find the e-Machine. Have also purchased successfully from http://www.geeks.com, although that was about 5 years ago.
Unless your daughter needs a laptop, I'd recommend a desktop--runs cooler and more bang for the buck.
And I'd stay away from HP--only one bad personal experience, but a friend of mine used to work for them. She finally quit/got fired in part because she was not enough of a team player in getting new products out--always trying to slow things down by reminding them how testing on the product wasn't finished or how the product had not passed a portion of the testing.
It's great when you get your computer running fast and now you,re in good shape for the next 4-5 years?
My last computer only cost me about $400 and lasted 5 years! This one needs to last about 10! (By the way, my current keyboard is from 1996. Color doesn't match the monitor, but works just fine.)
My first computer (1992, DOS 5.0) still works great--it runs some stepper motor software in my husband's workshop. My new computer has more graphics memory than that one has hard drive space and memory combined!!!
Regarding the Apple/PC debate, I've never been able to justify the extra cost of the Apples--but I'm also very comfortable with computers. My brother has tried to convince me to go with Apple: with his first (8 years ago) he bragged about how, unlike the PC, it never locked up. I promptly locked it up solid 3 times in a row!! While his newest one (3 years old?) has never locked up on me, it's slower than the one I just replaced.
For kicks I looked up a comparable system on the Apple website just now. http://store.apple.com is close to what I have: I only have one processor, but I have an additional 100MB of graphics memory, an addition 1.5GB of standard memory, and I scavenged my optical drive, keyboard, and mouse from another computer. And my $1400 includes a 19" monitor. The Apple is twice the cost of my new system.
Best of luck finding a new computer for your daughter.
Kathleen
It finally quit on her a month or so ago and I've got to find her something - cheap.
I've found that sale prices at http://www.compusa.com stores and on line to be very good value, especially on sale models which are nearing the end of their "latest thing" status.
The laptop/notebook I'm currently using is a Compaq Presario (now part of HP), my second from that company. It was, like I said, not quite the hottest setup when I bought it, about one year ago, also about one year after it was introduced. It went for $500 after rebates.
HP/Compaq has made a serious effort to improve their customer service over the last few years. Each time I used the toll free number the call was answered within thirty seconds by a friendly and knowledgeable person who spoke American English.
I've only needed to call a couple of times, no fault of the computer but mainly because I'm about two generations behind the computer learning curve.
Edited 11/23/2007 2:03 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Thanks for the info on Compac - I was looking at Compac computer at Walmart for my Daughter and I wondered if they were any good.Thanks again for the tip
I was looking at Compac computer at Walmart for my Daughter and I wondered if they were any good.
If I were you I'd ask her to do her own research on computers, to make sure that whatever she gets will work well for her. For example, I've read that many software programs haven't been working well with Microsoft's new Window's Vista.
She can probably learn more from talking with her friends than you or I could from a full day of web searches for reviews.
One thing worth mentioning, memory ugrades are always getting cheaper so it isn't necessary to have 1Gig of RAM on board to begin with. Knowing that you can get 1Gig of RAM for $50 opens up a wider range of available units at low prices.
Can't say I've had the same results with HP.Three calls and all three went to India and aswered by somebody who could not even understand what the problem was, let alone come up with a solution. I managed to solve it myself eventually
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Three calls and all three went to India and aswered by somebody who could not even understand what the problem was, let alone come up with a solution. I managed to solve it myself eventually.
It's a pain when a foreign tech rep is going through a diagnostic menu for the first time. My calls to Compaq's CS # have been only in the last year so that may account for the difference.
BTW, have you seen the web video of the two Indian guys who are trying to work for several different American companies as CS agents, on the phone with numerous clients at the same time? Very funny script and a couple of good comic actors too.
Huck,
Compare it to buying lumber. You can go to HD or Lowes and buy a 2x4 for $2 (just a guess) or you can go to a local "real" lumber yard and buy the same 2x4 for $4. The difference is that most of the time, the guys at the real yard know a little bit about what they are selling and will try to answer your questions.
With Dell, you are getting a heck of a lot of computer for a real good price. YOu cant get that and expect a lot of service. By the way, I have three Dell's, two at home and one at work and am perfectly happy with all of them but .... I had a problem with one of them, it would not work when I got it. One phone call and a new one was on the way. I ordered all three online and have never had a bit of problem with them (other than the one that was doa). There is no way I could get as much computer for the same price locally.
The same thing happens in my business. Guys can buy engine parts online for the same price that I pay for them. However, they will not get any type of decent technical support. On the other hand, they can buy them from me for a little more money, but will get all the help they want or need.
By the way, they are not the only ones that do the "subject to availability" thing. Look at every cheap computer in the Sunday sale flyers and just about every one of them will say the same thing.
I can give you 'great service' at a 'cheap price' and 'do it quickly' ........... pick two of the three :)
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
"By the way, they are not the only ones that do the "subject to availability" thing. Look at every cheap computer in the Sunday sale flyers and just about every one of them will say the same thing."Nothing wrong there.But that that is not what they are doing.They are saying we don't have any more.But if you are willing to pay more we just found some more in stock. But if you want to buy what we have advertisted then we are out of the.Now, if the ad has said limited to the first 1,000 units or something like that they would be OK..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
" There is no way I could get as much computer for the same price locally."Last desktop PC I got, I priced with Dell, Gateway, HP, and locallyThe local was the best price, a custome build, and they even helped with a minor tech probalem a month after it went off the three year warrantee - for free.Dell used to sell in part based on their excellent service reputation, until 3-4 years ago, when they offshored it. Everybody else also does the custome build to order thing they piomneered, so all they have left to sell on is cheapest price point
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I used to have a Dell, but suffered poor customer service as well. I'm sorry, but you'll find Gateway is no better. For my next computer I'm going back to MacIntosh. I should have never stopped buying them.
Huck, I am a Dell dealer. I sympathize with your problem.I run a business model the same as many of the better contractors here, I am available to do quality work for a price.If you call me looking for a computer, you will not buy one from me for less than $800. Dell is advertising those low ball prices for the classic bait and switch. You are lucky you did not get one ordered.It would not have had enough ram, or a fast enough hard drive for you to have liked it, especially with the **** that is Vista.I have many people call me asking for the $399 computer that was in the ad, And I simply have to tell them that I can't sell one that cheap, and they would be better off to go get a Wal-Mart cheapo.Dell does have great products, and great service. If you buy one of their business class machines, you get a direct line to support in the US and the warranty is basically no questions asked. BUT, you have to buy at least a $1200 computer to get gold tech support.It really is like asking Mike Smith to do work as cheap as Joe's Fly By Night remodeling, nobody but Joe is going to be happy in the end.A medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....
NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
I think I'd change my screen name if I were you. On the other hand, that's just me. Peace Out!
Yeah, who knew the hyphen went AFTER the 'g'?!?
He used to have a tagline that explained his name a bit.
OTOH wouldn't you rather be chatting online with a Bi-gal?
than a Big-Al ?
<G> No offense intended to Al.......Naive but refreshing !
i also suggest purchasing a mac. (you can run windows). i have switched all but one computer to macs.
another thing to look at is what your getting for your money, Some folks have told me that the mac is more expensive,
But if you look at the entire pkg, software, memory, processor , then the dell you'll find the mac is actually cheaper.
It comes with everything you need except its biz suit. You can pick up MS office student addition with word, power point and excel for about 150 bucks. or the mac IWork for around 80 bucks. I dont have it but I've heard some pretty good things about IWork.
Most, if not all of DELL's technical support is done from India or some
other overseas location.
For what it's worth, I understand that beginning within the next month or so, Dell will have outlets at all 'Staples office supply' locations. Then you can go in and do the old "touch/feel thing" before buying.
Yet another reason to go MAC