Right now (well, as soon as I get off my but and get to work) I’m removing the tile wainscoting in a 1950’s bathroom. The upper part of the wall is rock lath, which I’m trying not to damage too much. But the lower part, with the tile, is on metal lath and about 1-1/2″ thick including the tile. A 2′ x 2′ section of it weighs about 50 lbs. Since I don’t want to cause damage to other parts of the wall, and because It’s best to remove it in sections, I put a diamond blade in my circular saw to cut it into sections. And in this small bathroom (powder room, actually) a single cut clouds the room up so much I can’t see anything for about 10 minutes till the dust settles. Then I have to use prybars to pry the sections loose from the studs. I would really like to take a sledge hammer to it and be done with it, but gotta be careful not to damage anything else.
Not really looking for advice or anything, just wondering how anyone else handles this. By the time I get home to read any responses the demolition will be completed.. hopefully! 😀
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Did that in my house or something similar anyway. i had the option of sticking a fan in the window and sucking everything out with the help of a fan in the hall way blowing air in. If that is not an option then I have no idea.
I'm getting my but out the door now, and taking a fan with me.--------------------------------------------------------
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Set up a negative-pressure zone in the bath, plastic over the door with enough air gap to keep the velocity up.
Set up a shop vac right at the saw to catch as much of the dust as possible.
I subbed to a GC who supplied a really good Fein vac on every job. When I had a room to demo with no windows, I'd take the hose off the Fein and let it run, and it recirculated the air, collecting the dust in its VERY good filter. Kept the visibilty much higher, and saved some cleanup time.
You could try it with a regular shop vac. Not sure if their coarser filters would do the job, though.
Fine mist of water works wonders, just enought to kill the dust not get things wet!
I did this exact thing to my bathroom 2 years ago. Wire lath, 1" of tile cement, then the tile.
We figured it was easier to gut to the studs instead of trying to save any of the plaster. So, sledgehammers and prybars. We did keep the original tub and tile floor, but everything else went.
The first to go was the window where we then just tossed everything out as we went.
Funny thing... the demolition went well, furred out the studs so 5/8" drywall was flush with the remaining wall, got the new tile on the wall, then the homeowner comes home. They bought the wrong tile.
I thought 6" wall tile was a bit much for the small powder room, but who am I to questions the customers design choices? They're contemplating whether to have me take down the tile and redo it (paid, of course) or whether to live with the wrong tile. I told them I'd do it for $350, it'll take about a full day. Since they haven't even ordered the sink and toilet yet, it's not like there's a stringent timeline. I'll probably find out today what they want to do.
Anyway, the fan blowing out the window worked wonders. Still a cloud of dust when I made a cut with the diamond blade, but not so bad I couldn't see. Also cleared out a lot quicker.
I might have used a sledge hammer but I was afraid of cracking plaster on the other side of the wall. By cutting and prying I was able to carry the tile, plaster and lath out in big sections. Could almost take them home and put 'em back together! Well, if I wanted a pink bathroom. --------------------------------------------------------
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You have to be careful when blowing the dust out the window.
One one job years ago, I had the customer's neighbor call the fire dept. on me when I was doing something similar. They thought the dust was smoke, and the house was on fire.
Boy was I surprised to hear the pounding on the door, and see the trucks.
But the homeowners and I ultimately found it amusing. And it was good to know that they had caring neighbors.
I haven't had anyone call the fire department yet, but I did trip the smoke alarm once, which was connected to their security system, and the fire department showed up. I also had a customer forget to disable the silent alarm. I was barely started working when the police came knocking at the door. --------------------------------------------------------
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I always use a fan when doing demo to keep the dust at bay. I have a 22 inch box fan I bought at HD for $12 and it just won't die. I set up to demo part of a kitchen with the old fashion type tile job that came about 5 feet up the wall, about 30 linear feet of wall. I propped the fan in one window and cracked all the others a few inches and plugged in the Bosch chipping hammer. The HO walks in and she is concerned there might be some hazardous material in the tile/mortar/cement/etc. I tell her that once I start working I will be wearing safety glasses and a cartridge type respirator that can filter lead paint dust, asbestos, etc. So she says " I'm not talking about you.....isn't that fan in the window going to blow all the potentially hazardous dust out into the 'environment' ?" I was almost heartened by her almost concern for my health. I go on to explain that the more dust that blows out the window means less dust to settle other areas of her kitchen that were not being replaced and the less dust to find its way into the surrounding rooms. Additional prudent dust control was already in place. She says the fan cannot be used because of the potential threat to the 'environment'. I just wanted to wanted to get the tile down so I could start to put things back together and at this point I was a bit annoyed. I wasn't looking to win a fight, just to get the job done and get paid and move on. I made a quick trip to the local hardware store and bought 6 furnace filters. I tied three filters to each side of the fan. She thought that was ingenious.
Nothing you were doing was hurting the environment and we both know that. Convincing the customer of that, however, is another matter altogether. Good idea using those furnace filters. I'm not sure I'd have thought of that one. Will remember it in case I ever run into that situation. Thanks for passing it on.--------------------------------------------------------
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A real HEPA cartridge respirator should be required for this type of demo work. We test this type of wall tile for school renovations and find that often enough it contains lead. The silica from the cement grout and plaster isn't too good for you either. And, you could be doing damage to the building and immediate environment by contaminating with lead laden dust.
Ted, a couple of things. First i've done more than a few of these, why are you trying to save 4 feet of wall? Its a pain to match up with (depth wise). Just gut the thing and be done with it.
Usually I bust the plaster then stick a prybar (carefully) behind the tile.. You may be surprised, more often than not it folds like a bifold door and comes right off.
I would probably fore go the diamond blade for the exact reason you state.
It's not just 4 feet of wall, it's 4 feet of 4 walls.
Cutting and prying is not to prevent dammage to the plaster above the tile, it's to prevent dammage to the plaster in the adjacent rooms - the kitchen, hallway and bedroom. It happend to be before, breaking the wall between the studs on this type of 50's tile and I ended up repairing the dining room wall. I was lucky enough they had matching paint but still ended up costing me a day. If the walls in the adjacent rooms were not an issue, I would have taken the sledge hammer to it.
As for getting the removed portion of wall flush with the remaining upper portion, it's 7/8" thick. Just ripped some 1/4" strips to fur out the studs and used 5/8" greenboard, a little Duro 90 and it's a perfect transition. This is way less work than removing perfectly good wall, a lot less debris I have to dispose of, less $10/sheet drywall, less taping... not to mention I have to bring the wall to the same level anyway, because of the door and window jambs. --------------------------------------------------------
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I know. I've paid for wall repair in ajacent rooms before too, thats why I said carefully pry with a bar.
Glad you were able to match up well with the plaster. we just finished a kitchen and were we had to mate up varied by about 3/8-1/2".
Wood lath in notorious for being uneven. And actually, had that been the case I probably would have removed the entire wall, since it would probably have been unkeyed and crumbling anyway. In this case it is rock lath, which tends to be more even.
For the wall you mention, 3/8" to 1/2", just gotta feather it out wide for the transition. I've done more than my share of that also, as about 80% of my work is on wood lath walls. Is that what you have there?--------------------------------------------------------
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You're right. I feathered like a dog. I'm just saying that when we do a bathroom we gut (occasionally saving the ceiling) cause its just easier.
Rock lath has always *seemed* to be more durable than ye olde wood lath and plaster. . . but your way definitely sounds best.For negative air, well, I'm currently sub'ing for an outfit that settles for nothing less than the best: an asbestos removal machine. It takes two men to move it.It's kind of unreal, both in how well it works and how over-the-top it is. The machine's like a couple grand.
Edited 5/16/2008 6:30 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Yeah, that's definately overkill. I imagine you must doing some high-end work then. Has to be, if they can pan out for that kind of equipment. Do you buy the kind of dust masks with 2 rubber bands? :D--------------------------------------------------------
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Actually, yeah, we have those dust masks!No, it's not *that* high-end. The owner's just. . . that way. He's very cost-conscious in almost every respect, but spends freely on safety and cleanliness.
Ted,
figured I'd throw in my 2 cents, Fan in window if possible, use Zip Wall zipper door system on door, leaving zippers slightly open (6-12") to create air flow for the fan.
Which type lath did they use diamond mesh or, what I call, "the heavy duty stuff"
Using a sawzall w/ a tile cutting blade works well and creates less dust, cut a horizontal line around the room then use your pry bar to remove lower wall. You'll find you can use your gloved hands to sometimes pull the wall away, they aren't usually nailed to heavily. If they used the "heavy duty" lath ( has horiz. "slashes" punched into the metal vs. the diamond type, which you can almost tear off by hand) it's a little tougher to remove and to cut through.
Did you find all the tiles were back-buttered? or set into a bed ?
Geoff
I haven't used the zipper system yet, but I have done that 'negative air pressure' system as I call it. I would cut a slot in the plastic and tape it shut when needed. Or I would open one edge of the plasic, either way works.
On the job I'm doing there is a hall that connects all the rooms and the front door at the far end. I just closed all the doors and plastic off what doesn't have a door, open the front door and the fan took care of the rest. The hall didn't even get dusty, or not very much.
Sawzall and carbide blade would have taken a lot longer to cut through this stuff, so the extra dust was a small trade off for expediency. Also, I can't grab and pull at the wall because I have a bad back. Doing stuff like that could set me in traction for a week! Owwww! However, I don't have any problem lifting heavy items, just can't grab an pull like I could in my younger daze.
This wall was the diamond type lath.
Speaking of tile, did you caught my earlier post about them buying the wrong wall tile? Well, it looks like they're going to get the right stuff and have me take down that which I already installed. I don't mind, they are paying me for it. But it's really something how someone could accidentally buy 6" tile when they wanted 4". Anyway, I get an extra $350 for a days work, so I'm not complaining. --------------------------------------------------------
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Tape the shopvac hose to your saw an' go nuts. Wayyyyy better.
I do this with my little angle grinder with diamond blade in it.
That's what I sometimes do with my ro sander. Especially when I sanded the finish off all the old mahogony paneling in a 450 sq. ft. basement den, I taped the host to the dust shoot, and the cord to the hose. Taped a multi-plug extension with to the vacuum and plugged both of them into the extension and carried the whole setup around as a single unit. With the 40' extension I didn't even have to switch outlets.
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Now before you say it, I should have used stripper. I know. I thought this would be faster and not as messy. It wasn't as messy but believe me, it wasn't faster. I should have used stripper. Lesson learned!
Anyway, I didn't think of doing it with my saw while cutting the wall. Would have been a good idea, but it's done now. There will be plenty of next times. --------------------------------------------------------
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