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Dentil Crown Molding

DonCanDo | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 30, 2007 04:12am

Tomorrow I’ll be installing dentil crown molding for the first time.  I’ve done crown molding in various sizes before, but never with dentil.

I’m thinking that I’ll just miter the corners rather than cope them.  I’m not sure how to cope a dentil profile (where would one expose the profile, across a tooth or the gap?)

But even just mitering the inside corners I’m not sure I can maintain the proper tooth spacing.  I mean it’s not like I can change the length of the wall to suit the molding.  How is this typically done?

And yeah, I know this is really a last minute question since I’ll be installing it tomorrow.  But even if this doesn’t catch anyone’s attention until after I start, I still want to know for next time.

As for this time, I’ll probably try to make the miters fall on a gap and if they don’t, I can just remove any partial teeth that end in the corner leaving a bigger (but hopefully not hideous) gap.

-Don

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  1. User avater
    coonass | Apr 30, 2007 04:40am | #1

    Don,

    I miter dentil also. Start in the most visible corner and make the miters match. You can make 3 corners match but the 4th is chance. That one ends up in the least visible corner. I also check the corners to see if they are really 90 degrees and adjust.

    Had one idiot customer make me install it upside down. Call that "buck dentil".

    KK

    1. gb93433 | Apr 30, 2007 03:27pm | #6

      I'll bet that looked good when it got dusty.

    2. User avater
      JDRHI | Apr 30, 2007 04:21pm | #8

      Had one idiot customer make me install it upside down.

      I think I was in that house.

      They were so proud of their new master bedroom. Didn't have the heart to tell them it was assbackwards.

      J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements

       

       

  2. User avater
    JDRHI | Apr 30, 2007 04:56am | #2

    Wish I could give you an all purpose answer....but dentil crown doesn't work like that. So, instead....some possibilities...

    First, miter the corners.

    I believe that aprox. equal 1/2 tooths look the best at the joints.

    Second....measure the walls and find your "centers" on the moulding lengths, so that the intersections on the right, are the same or close to it, as on the left.

    As you mentioned.....don't be afraid to make some modifications to the teeth at the miter joints....just as little as possible, so that the eye doesn't pick it up.

    None of the above are set in stone...just some guidelines I try and follow.

    J. D. Reynolds
    Home Improvements

     

     


  3. robert | Apr 30, 2007 04:57am | #3

     Don,

     Make the corners match. If you have to shave off 1/4 of a block or less, no one will ever see it unless you tell them.

     What I do is make all four corners match. Then on the final wall I put a joint, even if can be run in one piece. The reason is that once you make all four corners work, if in the middle of the least looked at wall, one space is a little bigger or one block a little bigger................no one will see it unless they are really really looking for it. That's how you make up the difference.

     Also, if you do splice it, on Dentil/Crown as one piece I use but joints. Once I have the joint worked out and lined up, I pull both pieces down. Then I put one maybe two biscuits (Depends on the size) and Gorilla glue the whole thing.

     Much cleaner than trying to mitre the splice on that stuff.

     A little careful sanding and the joint disappears.

  4. girlbuilder | Apr 30, 2007 05:00am | #4

    "Had one idiot customer make me install it upside down. Call that "buck dentil"

    LOL -- customer's always right!

    I've cut dentil crown twice, once for a 'test' for my tech school construction training and once in a kitchen remodel. Cut with the crown on the saw upside down and backwards like you would regular crown. I cut each piece in the middle of one of the 'dentals' to make the corner meet there. When you meet the two parts in the corner it has the effect on the eye of appearing the same size as the rest of them. At least that's how I did it and it looked good.

    1. DonCanDo | Apr 30, 2007 12:42pm | #5

      Thanks folks.  You're the best.

      And no, I didn't get up this early just to check if I had any responses :-)

      -Don

  5. WNYguy | Apr 30, 2007 03:38pm | #7

    Don, I'm a little late with my response, but I wanted to echo the others' respones.  A tooth or at least a half-tooth is what you want in the corners -- not the gap. 

    Have you been out on the bike yet this season?  My "husband-in-law" (aka, my wife's ex-husband) was visiting this past weekend as says there's been some nice weather down your way.

    Allen

    1. DonCanDo | May 01, 2007 03:48am | #9

      Hi Allen, I've been getting out about once a weeks for some time now.  Only 2 rides so far without tights and long sleeves, but it was definitely short sleeve weather today (except I was working, not riding).  Once a week hardly qualifies me as a real cyclist.  Surprising to me, I can still do 40+ miles although at a fairly easy pace.

      This weekend we'll be doing the 5-boro tour.  It's more of an event than a bike ride.  The last time I did it was about 5 years ago so I've forgotten the reasons that I said I would never do it again.  I'm sure it will all come back to me.

      My brother, Rich (he drove) was diagnosed with an atrial fibrillation.  He's fine now except that he's on medication to keep his heart rate down while his heart heals.  He's still riding, but nowhere near like before.  In fact, I can pretty much outride him now, but there's no joy in it.  I'm sure he's frustrated, but he never complains.  They should be reducing the meds soon and we're hoping he can get back to his pre-medication riding level.

      Thanks for the molding advice (see my next post) and happy riding.

      -Don

      1. DonCanDo | May 01, 2007 03:57am | #10

        Thanks again for the help.  In fact, the customer just called me a few minutes ago to tell me how thrilled she is.  Nothing beats an attaboy.

        I can see why it's better to leave a some tooth in the corner now that I installed it.  I tried for half a tooth and it came out pretty good for my first attempt.  I think I can do better, but I would need a better miter saw and better molding (this stuff came from the big box).  Nonetheless, I'm happy with it and more importantly the customer is thrilled.

        -Don

        View Image

        View Image

        1. User avater
          JeffBuck | May 01, 2007 07:30am | #11

          Oh Sure ...

          take a pic of the "good corner"!

           

          U should be ashamed of stealing my ideas!

           

          anyhoo ... years ago I got to work with a great cabinet maker. One job ... build ins and dentil crown.

          I watched quietly ... as he went around ... installed like regular crown ...

          and bang! All the corners worked out beautifully.

           

          I was amazed ... I did notice he tried to make near full blocks in the corners ..

           

          so I asked ... How'd U do that?

           

          he looked confused ... I said ... the corners ... all four ... they "worked out".

          How?

           

          so he takes a second look ... didn't even occure to him at the time ...

          Just laughed and said ...

           

          well that was pure luck ... bet that ain't ever gonna happen again ...

           

          so there's the secret!

           

          and I've lived by that rule since.

          sure takes the pressure off ....

           

          saw it happen once ... bet that's my "once" too!

          Jeff

           

          he did show me how they make it work on the furniture pieces in the shop ...    Buck Construction

           Artistry In Carpentry

               Pittsburgh Pa

      2. WNYguy | May 01, 2007 02:33pm | #12

        Don, nice job with the molding.  Good to hear you've been making time for some riding, and that Rich is doing well.

        Allen

  6. DougU | May 02, 2007 04:22am | #13

    Don

    I avoid the crown with the dentil already built into it. Makes it dificult to line everything up.

    I want a block on both the inside and outside corners. To do this I will adjust the spacing or shave off some of the blocks to achieve a full block on the corners. If you shave off a bit from several blocks  or spaces and then butt them together no one will ever notice that there is a joint there(that is if the dentil moulding is one long piece, if your using seperate pieces for the blocks then its childs play).

    BTW, dentil moulding has nothing to do with teeth or dentistry!

    doug

     

    1. JMadson | May 02, 2007 08:03pm | #14

      BTW, dentil moulding has nothing to do with teeth or dentistry!

      What do you mean? It's called dentil molding because it looks like teeth or so I thought.“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume

      1. DougU | May 03, 2007 04:39am | #15

        It's called dentil molding because it looks like teeth or so I thought.

        I was always taught that dentil moulding had nothing to do with dentistry but when you look up dentil mouldings on Wikipedia a or Architectual definations it tells of the latin word for tooth being "Den" so there is obviously some conection but I was always under the impression that the moulding was never meant to be a simulation of teeth, either abstract or otherwise, only that the blocks were "tooth like".

        Maybe I'm just nit-picking symantics, not sure but because of what I was taught I never think of dentil moulding and dentistry as related.

        Doug

         

  7. Jer | May 03, 2007 05:16am | #16

    Nice job!

    Now the next fun one is to do "rope" moulding. I just did a kitchen with the rope as part of the facia under the fancy crown. It all matched except for one inside corner which was hidden and not that bad. It wasn't easy though. No cope cuts, (I never do on a cab job anyhow), and it took three times longer than I thought.

    The secret for me is to dry fit all the joints on the bench before installing and you gotta keep cutting down the moulding where the two repeating patterns would meet till they're right. Plenty of yellow glue and a 23g pinner helped a lot.

    Then the real 'bear' crown to install is that which has an embossed pattern like grape bunches or a frieze that has scenes with half naked Greeks in relief that eventually repeat.

    With dentil I too like to measure from the center out the run and see where the cut will land and then adjust accordingly.

    It's good to have more extra material than usual, and have the miter saw & bench right there in the room where you're installing because there's always extra cuts till it's right, and more up & down on the ladder or stool.

    1. DaveRicheson | May 03, 2007 01:23pm | #17

      >Then the real 'bear' crown to install is that which has an embossed pattern like grape bunches or a frieze that has scenes with half naked Greeks in relief that eventually repeat<

       

      And that egg and dart stuff in 8' lenghts sold at the big box realy bites. Buy about 25% more than the room size rather than the 10% normal waste factor, and increase your charge by a like amount.

      Lessons learned the hardway always last the longest.

       

      Dave

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