I am looking for some feedback on design software.
We do mainly kitchen and bath remodels usually within the existing foot print of the house. We will move interior walls etc.
What I am looking for is something that will give my clients a perspective of what their project will look like.
I have looked at Chief Architect and find if difficult to justify the cost. I think that it is overkill for what I do.
Any thoughts.
Thanks
Frank
Replies
Chief Architect has a smaller version called 3-D Home Architect. Cost around $50, it's a good basic program that will let you do quit a bit but it's not a big program. I use it because it's simple and quick.
Edited 11/14/2007 11:52 pm by jagwah
Edited 11/14/2007 11:52 pm by jagwah
Edited 11/14/2007 11:53 pm by jagwah
3D Home Arch was based on CHief Arch, but that was a long time ago.Abouter ver 5 or 6 they changed the base engine..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yes, 3D Home Architect was originally done by ART--the same group that does Chief Architect. However, starting with 3DHA v. 5, Broderbund took over that software name. Chief Architect teamed with Better Homes and Gardens to produce and publish Better Homes and Gardens Home Designer. Apparently somewhere in here ART (Advanced Relational Technology) changed their name to Chief Architect, Inc.
You can sometimes find copies of 3D Home Architect v. 4 on ebay or amazon. It was pretty solid and powerful for its time.
You can download a trial version of Chief Architect here http://www.chiefarchitect.com/products/trial.html . Chief Architect also has 20-minute live demonstrations and Q&A every Friday morning at 10am PT.
The BH&G software is found at http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/products/. It is compatible with Chief Architect.
Just a point of interest for anyone living in Idaho--Chief Architect is headquartered in Coeur d'Alene.
Kathleen
is it made by Sierra? (the 2nd post)
Edited 11/17/2007 12:10 am ET by andyfew322
In the beginning I think it was. This one's Broderbund 4.0
oh. i asked because mine wasn't working right
Is yours Sierra or Broderbund? What's going on with yours?
It's sierra, I don't know what's happening whenever I start the first program for the first disk (Sierra home Architect) it pops up a weird message
The procedure entry point _resetstkoflw could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll.
I have an IBM Thinkpad that recently had it's harddrive wiped, but I loaded the software after it was wiped.
You are suffering from DLL HELL.Do a google on msvcrt.dll and you will find some fixes..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
What Bill said.
Some of my software hasn't worked since I had a hard drive crash a while ago. It seems most of the reasons has to with some dll or other similar and missing registration files.
Bummer!
While you wait for someone to chime in, you might do a search on Breaktime using various related search terms. Lots of discussions in the past on architectural, layout, and design software. However, I don't remember anything specific to just kitchen and bath remodeling.
I purchased a copy of Home Designer Pro, which I was told was a crippled version of Chief Architect. I found it was pretty useless for doing the architectural details that I needed to do and preferred DesignCAD ($69) for the floorplans and details. However for what you need, it might be useful if you need something a little more than the bottom dollar home owner programs. It has a small "dongle" (key) that is required to run it that is almost sure to get lost...
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=97048.17
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I did this bathroom with Home Design 6.0.
Also marketed under the Better Homes and Gardens logo.
It's supposed to be a HO version of Chief A.
It took me about 20 minutes.
Later I will try to give you a picture with the wall taken out. I know the toilet paper is floating in space. So what.
You may have to save this in a jpg or bitmap form.
This way others can better see it. My own version of this software tried to open this and mine was to old that yours was a later version.
I've tried to save as a jpg but may not be bright enough. Here's a plot plan for landscaping showing the full house layout.
I had trouble opening yours too. And then finally it popped up.
I'll try to save in the jpg format or what ever it's called.
Probably not bright enough either.
Just tried to save in jpg format. It created the file, but I couldn't open it.
Rich
Edited 11/15/2007 2:03 pm ET by cargin
Use an image program to read it.Or post the newly created jpeg here as is
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've exported your plan view and rendering with CA XI.I think some of the layer views are turned off for the rendering. My program also warned that some of the materials (roof tiles, coverings, etc) didn't match. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Great!
Actually the use of this floor plan was for point of reference for my wife, as she wanted me to locate all the primary trees and shrubbery. I then had to make several 1/2" scale copies so she could lay out where she was going to work my a** off planting her new plants and bulbs.
Heres that file in JPG form. I also stripped the wall out and shot an elevation view from the bedroom.I also fixed that floating toilet paper. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Thanks Jim
How did you do that? EDIT I mean how did you get it into JPG format. I went to export and created a file in what I thought was JGP. The file is in my folder, but when I tried to open it, my computer said Window needs to know what program created it. What???
I removed the wall and printed the picture just like you did to show the customer what the bath will look like.
I think Home Design will work for the orginal poster (Frank?) and then when you like it then upgrade to Chief A. END EDIT
On another plan I was learning on I produced a materials list very similar to the Chief A that discussed on a different thread. It gave me number of studs and LF of plates Ect.
Rich
Edited 11/15/2007 8:38 pm ET by cargin
Turbofloorplan from IMSI @$120 -- this is a slightly scaled back version of Envisioneer. there are a few videos on Utube that explain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPiKF1CPm1o&feature=related
frankn... i was pretty impressed with Envisioneer.. i think it's around $600
i use Chief Architect.... have since '97...... i probably use 20% of it... it is pretty sophisticated.. yet it is also pretty easy to become proficient enough to get working drawings out the door
we do whole house remodels... major additons , new homes, kitchens , baths
most people find that once they've invested in the software... they will sell a job that will pay for the software
and the next job will pay for a large format color printer....
you can go into a customer's house with your digital camera.. shoot all of the items you are going to include in your scope..... import the pics into your program.. print the pics with text and explanations...
develop floor plans.. 3-d views.... cross-sections..... construction details ( at a scale of 12" = 1 ft. )... one thing to remember.. you do all your designing at full scale
the thing that never gets paid for is the amount of time you spend learning the software... but to me ..it is all worth it... you develop abilities for your company that the people you used to compete agianst can't match
yes .. there are lot's of software programs out there.. sketchup.. turbocad.. etc..
i think that buiders should stick to Chief... or Softplan... or Vectorworks ... or Envisoneer... you work with walls and windows and doors & cabinets and fixtures
with most other cad programs you are working with lines trying to make them look like walls, windows, doors, cabinets & fixtures
I own.. one copy of Envisoneer, three copies of Chief..... one copy of Autocad LT, one copy of Sketchup..... so far ( i've had versions 5, 6, 7, 8 , 9 & now 10.08 ) Chief gets my vote as to which one i will spend my time with
what do you want to have as your abilities 5 years from now ?.. what are you willing to invest to get there ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,Thanks for your response. I am going to seriously look at Chief Architect. I want to take my business to the next level and I think that this can one of the tools I need to help me get there.I would also like to thank you for contribution to this board. I have been coming here for several years and have gleaned a lot good info from several members.Thanks Frank
like i said ... i was impressed enough with Envisoneer that i bought a license
... thing is .... once you devote the time to learning a program..... it's really hard to change..
sometimes i go to User Group training sessions.. i always feel like i should be in the intermediate group
usually convince myself to sigh up for the Advanced.. and i'm always surprised at how much i really do know
it's the same thing with every Software program.. you have to devote a LOT of time to develop proficiency...
but in the meantime.... you will still be amazed at what you can do with modern 3-D CAD....
if you decide to go with Chief.. look into the on-line training that Dan Bauman offers
www/ChiefExperts.com
most of my training i got from my software dealer.. Berryvale Software
but Chief has changed their marketing and they no longer work thru dealers
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
The thing that annoys me about Home Design 6.0 is the cabinet desgin features.
Home Design has you install install a base unit. Then you click and drag to expand it to size. I find that cumbersome.
I would rather install a 36" sink base, then a 24" drawer base ect.
How does Chief A work with cabinets?
Rich
chief has you install a base, or a wall, or a highboy ( utility )
if you install it in a corner it becomes a corner unit...
you click on it and it opens a dialog box
you can then make it as wide , or as deep, or as high as you want
you can change every detail on the front, overlap or flush the doors, add glass
change the door to a drawer.. add drawers
add crown .. in other words you can do anything to a kitchen cabinet you want
countertops... materials... colors... textures
then if you want.. you can add lighting and turn the lights on /off to see how it will really work... but i don't usually get that detailed
like i've said ... i probably use 20% of the power of Chief
the thing is... watching my kitchen designer at the lumberyard.. she uses 20/20 ( lot's of kitchen places do )... 20 / 20 is linked to the mfr. so what you draw is what you get
to get a quote on my kitchen.... the kitchen places have to redraw my plan.. even if nothing gets changed.. because that is how the order and quote gets prepared
Chief is very fast with kitchens... it's pretty intuitive
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
cabs. click to modify, door/drawer details, counter top textures/types... that's all part of the original Chief package?
yes.... has been for as long as I can remember
samething with every object in Chief
you build it, click on it ... modify it a much as you want
walls, windows , doors, foundations, roofs
if you build the same type of thing over & over... you can customize your template so those things always get installed as the default
in my template, I have a Mooney wall, all my doors are 6-panel,
all my casing /baseboard is what we normally use.... all my foundations are 7'6 with 10" walls on a 10x20 footing.... yada , yada , yadaMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
As you know we do primarily kitchens and baths with a little of other stuff thrown in. If you were not so adapt at Chief would you consider Envisioneer adequate for what we do? I am looking mainly for sales presentation help so pictures are key. DanT
here's the caveat... i saw it demonstrated at JLC Live
i was very impressed... i bought it... i've never used it
here's a link to cadsoft ( Envisoneer )
looks like $995 about $1300 with the training bundle
http://www.cadsoftstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CS&Category_Code=Envisioneer
for $2195 you can buy Chief Vs 11 ( X1)
and then i'd buy my training from Dan Bauman
http://www.chiefarchitect.com/shop/pricing.html
very hard to say which way i'd go..
knowing what i know now... i'd guess i upgrade about every 2 years
( '97 to '07... vs 5 to vs. 10 )... so the Chief software at today's prices is cositng me about $100/ month
i guess if your operation can support that ... i'd go with Chief
the peripherals you need for either
( to maximize the "WOW ! " effect )... would be either a big laptop ( 17" )
or a nice wide format color printer... or both
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'd want the big laptop with a secondary monitor if I was presenting to clients. I'd hand them the monitor and sit across from them and work the magic. Mike, have you created any final renderings at picture quality like they claim? I think I understand that the basic renderings that we see when we are working get much more detailed on final rendering. I don't have much ram and I had to get rid of all the furniture to keep the speed up on my "shift K" renders.You sound like you are a software junkie LOL.I actually like this program. I like handdrawing too but I don't have the skills necessary to make a good looking hand drawing. Thank for that cad lesson. I'm making headway in that department and I figured out the file management system too. I like the fact that I can have unlimited files. On the Cad detail issue: I drag the camea and create a section view. I then zoom in and I have full cad capability. For instance, I can click on the insulation in a wall cavity and reduce it, then add headers, then tuck the insulation tight again. When I click the "make 2D detail", another screen opens up and that screen has significantly less flexibility on editing. Is that how your program works? I didn't get around to putting either of them on the layout sheet to see how the act differently.Oh yeah...the printer... That is high on my list. I'm pretty much done out in the field and I see a long life ahead of me in the office designing and drawing. You know....draw alittle....go on breaktime....take a call....draw a little....go golfing....take a call.... Right now I'm sending everything to Kinkos in pdf file to print. I'd love the printer right next to me. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
<<<<<You know....draw alittle....go on breaktime....take a call....draw a little....go golfing....take a call.... >>>
that's it ! it's the rythym of the universe
i'll tell you what....
in 2001 i bought an HP 500 ( 24" ) with roll feed, and the GL card & 32 mb ram
so .. i can make prints say 24" x 48" or 24 x 36 or 24 x 250 ft
my favorite print size is 18" x 24" and i try to make ll my projects in that size
i paid $2731 incl. tax and i've had one service call in Sept. of '06 ($375)
that thing is so slick... i can import digital pics into Chief and print them out on the layout sheets
typically ... on a big remodel job... the first sheet will have a pic of the customer's house say 18 x 12 and lot's of smaller pics showing items in the scope of work.... they really get into the spirit of the project
i've never done much with the render camera... i use the vector camera most of the time.... and the section camera lot
any of the vector views can be converted to CAD ( View2 CAD tool )
you can then go in and clean up the view in the CAD DETAIL window
as you will find out... it's best to get your model correct before you start doing a lot of details....... the CAD details will not need nearly as much editing
the other thing is i spend a limited amount of time trying to get the model right.. so if i'm showing 3-d views to the customer i will be making lot's of comments like
" pay not attention to that ... it's just something i haven't edited yet"
"pay no attention to the elephant in the living room "
works great for showing people how their furniture will fit in rooms
all the furniture and appliances in the library is editable and can be resizedMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,Your process sounds pretty slick. I'm still plodding along with AutoCAD but have been toying around with incorporating more 3d stuff (not via ACAD) into my drawings.Is there way you could post set of plans so we could get a feel for how you integrate photos in the drawings?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
i tried a couple of things ... as usual... IrfanView had the best option
let's see if this works....
kinda sucks...
it's a screen capture of a preliminary layout page ... i haven't added any text to the pics yet.. the pics show the rotted deck & balconey to be replaced
View Image
i'll play with it and see if i can figure how to improve the display
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 11/16/2007 5:04 pm ET by MikeSmith
Can you Irfanview a magnifying glass to go with that? ;-)
s'matta ? your eyes gettin weak ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I must have been looking at too much p*rn
les try that again
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 11/16/2007 5:17 pm ET by MikeSmith
and once more
hmm... this is a screen capture of my dual monitors
kinda small
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 11/16/2007 5:16 pm ET by MikeSmith
Thank you. With that info you are right, not much difference in price overall. I will give it some thought. I think it would be a good plan overall but I really would like my son to handle it more than me. He is much more techy and smarter. But we need to grow another couple guys to get there. Thanks again. DanT
Thanks
I tried it with Home Design just now. A double click will bring up the dialog box.
You can change the door style or add a drawer.
It did not make a corner unit. I am pretty sure I did a Lazy Susan in previous kitchen. Don't have time this AM to work on it.
Gotta go.
Rich
It does allow you to set a default size for cabs, place then stretch or place-open and adjust size within properties. Also there are libraries to pull cabinets from.
Donkey
Wood_donkey
Thanks. I have had the program for about a year.
I need to devote some time to learning it better. I have too much lag time between uses. When i need to draw something then I get it out and use it. Too much relearning.
Life is busy right now, but I have started to draw things just for fun/learning without a deadline.
I think it is a pretty good program for small remodelers who don't have the $ or the time to devote to learning like Mike Smith describes. Whatever you learn or draw on Home Design can be upgraded to Chief A.
Rich
Got to say I'm surprised no one here is on Builders Cad - http://www.builderscad.com/3d_models.html - I've been using the (related) core software for Cad since 1985.
Jeff