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Designer v Contractor

CloudHidden | Posted in Business on October 25, 2006 03:25am

Client calls. Complains about a piece of work one by contractor…something on the exterior had to be patched, and the patch is not a perfect blend with the original work. I did the design–client introduced to me originally by this contractor–but do no construction management or contract management. What do I say or do? Options include:

1. Tell client that contractor-relations is not my issue

2. Tell contractor that client needs a solution

3. Talk to contractor and see if he’ll take ownership of problem

4. _____

5. _____

As a contractor, how would you feel getting this kind of call from the house’s designer? If you were the contractor in question, how would you want this issue to be handled?

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Replies

  1. User avater
    IMERC | Oct 25, 2006 03:30pm | #1

    find out if the perception of perfect by the HO isn't off a bit..

    that would pehaps give ya clue as to how to proceed...

    yur tactful.. default it back to the contractor..

     

     

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!! What a Ride!

    Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!



    Edited 10/25/2006 8:39 am by IMERC

  2. User avater
    txlandlord | Oct 25, 2006 04:47pm | #2

    There is a wise porverb that says "one man story sounds good until you hear the other side". I would talk to the contractor and get his story, asking him if he would take responisbility.

    1. User avater
      CloudHidden | Oct 25, 2006 05:07pm | #4

      >asking him if he would take responsibilityDoes that put me where I don't belong? What are the odds the builder will think/say, "You aren't part of my contract with the client, so keep your nose out of it."? It's one thing if I'm in a supervisory capacity, but here I'm not. I've read the other threads here about contractors' opinions of architects and what they think of the designer butting in. How would this be different?

      1. User avater
        txlandlord | Oct 26, 2006 07:10pm | #8

        Does that put me where I don't belong? What are the odds the builder will think/say, "You aren't part of my contract with the client, so keep your nose out of it."? It's one thing if I'm in a supervisory capacity, but here I'm not. I've read the other threads here about contractors' opinions of architects and what they think of the designer butting in. How would this be different?

         

        The HO called you. Conversation with the builder should be premised with "The HO called me, and I am trying to help. I certainly do not have all the facts, but this is what they told me........"  

        As a builder, I do not think I would mind that kind of approach, and in fact, I would want to address the issue with you as you may refer other work. The HO is the one who solicitated your help, and you are not really "butting in".  You may have completed you real responsibilities, but I could understand that you may still have a casual responsibilty to the HO, even though you are not in construction management of oversight. 

        Of course, you could just ignore the whole thing and it may go away.

        1. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 26, 2006 10:07pm | #10

          I like your approach TX!

          blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

          1. User avater
            txlandlord | Oct 27, 2006 06:45pm | #12

            Thanks blue, we are smart and as sweet as pecan pie on Thanksgiving here in TX.

            I thought you were coming to Austin.

          2. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 27, 2006 11:26pm | #16

            I thought you were coming to Austin

            I'm coming as soon as I can. My daughter's house is almost done. They close in November. That's where my grandkids will live. I intend to be on the sidelines watching them play ball, AT EVERY GAME!

            I still have to sell some property, or create some cashflow to add  another homestead. I'm working on it. I'm slow and just learning.

            blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

          3. User avater
            txlandlord | Oct 27, 2006 11:49pm | #17

            I'm coming as soon as I can.

            Cool, keep me posted.

            You'll be about 1 1/2 to 2 hours away depending on which part of Austin.

  3. Tim | Oct 25, 2006 04:57pm | #3

    Has the HO talked to the contractor? Has the contractor refused to make amends?

    Option 4. Asses the reality of the situation and "help" the two parties come to a resolution.

    1. User avater
      CloudHidden | Oct 25, 2006 05:18pm | #5

      >Has the HO talked to the contractor?I don't yet know. It came up in an 11:30 pm call about something else. My first thought was, "Oh crap, I'd rather go to bed than deal with this now" so I bought time. :)Whether they've talked or not, does a designer without construction management responsibilities have any role at all in facilitating resolutions between the client and a contractor? Part of me thinks that if I were the contractor posting here that the designer called me about a client's dissatisfaction, most people would say I should tell the designer to jump in a lake.

      1. Tim | Oct 27, 2006 12:16am | #11

        "does a designer without construction management responsibilities have any role at all in facilitating resolutions between the client and a contractor?"

        I'm glad you used the term "role" vs "obligation" or the like. Given that one introduced you to the other, I would have to say "yes", but to a very limited extent. In the interest of dealing with an issue that needs to be dealt with, regardless of fault or resposibility, make an effort (a couple of phone calls?) to get them working together and then let them. I'm guessing that there is no contractual obligation on your part to do so (warning, I am not a lawyer and I have never slept in a Holiday Inn Express!), and if it gets ugly, walk away.

        "if I were the contractor posting here that the designer called me about a client's dissatisfaction, most people would say I should tell the designer to jump in a lake."

        I would prefer to know if my customer was dissatisfied and why? I would also to prefer, as a professional that prides myself on quality work, that, had I made a mistake, that I had the chance to correct it in a timely manner. Everyone makes mistakes, such as it is to be human. It is how we rectify our mistakes, that to a large extent, defines our character.

        The manner in which the contractor is informed of the customers concern (whether it be a mistake or not) could also well influence your future referals from this guy. Honey vs vinegar...

        The contractor that would "tell you to go jump in the lake" would be a substandard one, IMHO. Best to know that sooner than later.

        This is a situation I find myself in from time to time, BTW. I design for the building owner/tenant, not the contractor. Whether in my "scope" or not, resolving minor issues as a matter of consequence is just what I do. Maybe I'm wrong, but it does no harm, and has lead to new business on an occassion or two.

        Edited 10/26/2006 5:26 pm by Tim

        1. User avater
          txlandlord | Oct 27, 2006 06:48pm | #13

          blue likes my approach and I like yours........you expounded upon my thoughts and attitude toward the situation. 

        2. remodelman | Oct 27, 2006 10:11pm | #14

          I totally agree with Tim's approach. I'm not at all opposed to asking whatever architect I'm working with for help solving an issue that I just couldn't get worked out on my own. Fresh eyes and an open mind can be a blessing sometimes.

          1. shellbuilder | Oct 27, 2006 10:46pm | #15

            Take a picture of the patch and email it to the GC. I just had a bricklayer botch some toothing of brick aginst a new door. Sent him about 5 pictures of the problem and he fixed it the next day, no words ever exchanged, just email pictures. 

      2. User avater
        SamT | Oct 28, 2006 07:12am | #25

        does a designer without construction management responsibilities have any role at all in facilitating resolutions between the client and a contractor?

        No, of course not.

        A smart businessman, on the other hand, will see that his brand is in danger and make sure the client knows that he is trying really hard to resolve the issue with ever taking responsibility for it.

        The only way the client will know this is if you try really hard to resolve the issue.SamT

        1. jimblodgett | Oct 30, 2006 04:39pm | #26

          It seems to me that the owner, designer and contractor are a team.  And anything one does, reflects on the entire team. 

          I wouldn't give advice on your specific situation, Cloud, but communication is critical, from the initial meeting to the follow up phone calls a couple years later to see how things are holding up. It's not always easy, or comfortable, but critical. 

  4. BUIC | Oct 25, 2006 07:08pm | #6

      Tell him to call the contractor with his concerns.

      What's he doing calling you at 11:30 at night. Trying to start a problem between you and a contractor you have no real involvement with?

      Getting in between these two will be bad for all three of you, that's almost guaranteed.  Buic

     

    1. IdahoDon | Oct 28, 2006 04:18am | #21

      Tell him to call the contractor with his concerns.

        What's he doing calling you at 11:30 at night. Trying to start a problem between you and a contractor you have no real involvement with?

      Exactly. 

      Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

      1. User avater
        CloudHidden | Oct 28, 2006 05:34am | #24

        Nah, the client's cool. So's the contractor for that matter. The client was calling me to give a head's up that he would like a certain drawing emailed to Office Depot the next day so they could select appropriate office furniture. He mentioned the other just be/c he had me on the phone. Why 11:30? Dunno, though he's called then before. Only client I had to that point without email, so he tends to make those kind of calls, though infrequently.###Just called the contractor. We talk this time of night be/c he's home from the job site and I'm done with my daily stuff. Beat around the bush awhile. He mentioned doing some work on the house in question and that the client wasn't happy at the moment, but that he (contractor) was planning another visit to recoat a big area (first visit to base coat the patches, and second to color coat all at once) but that the client didn't seem to grasp the process. Learned what I needed to hear without insinuating myself into the mix.As Dr Phil says, no matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has two sides.

  5. CAGIV | Oct 25, 2006 07:19pm | #7

    If it were me I would call the contractor and at least get his side of the story, phrase it in a way that  you are calling to let him know that the customer is calling you with concerns and you wanted to make sure he knew about it and how un-happy the customer was.

    I'd probably not do much more then that, getting involved isn't going to end well for anyone.  If I really thought the contractor was screwing the customer over I'd want to know so I could avoid be assciated with him in the future for my own sake.

    I'd also call the customer explain that this not something that I can get involved in and professionaly you do not want to be involved in because with out seeing the actual offence there is no way I can pass judgement, even if I could there is unfortunetly nothing I could do about it because I'm not involved in that portion of the work.   Wish them the best of luck in sorting it out.

    Team Logo

    1. FastEddie | Oct 26, 2006 07:20pm | #9

      I agree with CAG, adding that after I talked with the contractor, I would call the HO and explain whay I had done, and politely tell them to leave me out of the loop.

      If I was the contractor, i would appreciate your call, as long as you were passing on the information and made it clear that you did not want any part of the situation. 

      "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  6. DoRight | Oct 28, 2006 12:01am | #18

    You say you do not do construction management or contractor management?  Well if so that pretty much says it all.  Are you unsure that your client understands your infatic statement, "I don't do construction management or contractore management?

    This seems like a no brainer.  You need to tell teh client again that your services did not included construction or contrator management.  If you call the contractor he might politely ignore you or tell you to buzz off.  ANd if you chose to get involved on this one occassion expect twenty more occassions to surface.

  7. Frankie | Oct 28, 2006 12:11am | #19

    I have read all the posts so far. My understanding is:

    You did the design.

    You got paid for the design.

    You are responsible/ liable for the design.

    The Client is acting as the Construction Supervisor.

    Client therefore is solely liable for Construction Management and result of sub-trades efforts.

    It's not about how much you should get involved. If you get involved in the construction process at all, you open yourself up to a liability for which you are not being compensated. You'll be telling current and future clients "Don't hire me for the CM because when things go poorly I'll help you out for free anyway."

    So far, many have mentioned playing the role as the mediator, but the liability may be great and you are setting a precident - with the Client AND with the Sub. Neither one may appreciate this input. So you'll have: No compensation. Cost in Client relations. Cost in Sub referal relations. Ouch.

    Be polite and state that for liability reasons you cannot get involved with construction issues. Recommend that the Client deal directly with the Sub and end the conversation. If the Client persists, hold your ground and be quiet. The Client cannot argue with someone who does not respond.

    Perhaps in the future, when your Design Agreement is being signed, the Client can accept or decline your services for being the CM. If this service is declined, they can sign a short statement to attesting to that fact (similar to declining the insurance option at a car rental agency). This may make it clearer why you cannot help or at the very least discourage them from asking you to intervene after the fact.

    I know this may be perceived as a hardasp approach but Design and Construction is how you put food on your table and a roof over your head before it is a way to make friends. If you proceed this way, you will develop respectful and friendly relationships.

    Frankie

    One creates these beautiful dishes. Then people destroy them with their teeth. You might like to take a photograph of your own grilled sole with samphire. It won't be as good as mine but it will be something.

    Richard E. Grant as Simon Marchmont - Posh Nosh

  8. tek | Oct 28, 2006 12:15am | #20

    I don't like having a client think I've been no help to them, it's not good business sense.  Without knowing the entire situation, I might tell the client very clearly that it's not your responsibility since you're not doing con admin, BUT......since it was brought up and it's obviously bothering them, you'll give the contractor a call and see if there is anthing that can be done.

    Tell the contractor you got the call, it's really not your businesss, but is there anything he can do to fix the problem?  Have him then follow up with the client (unless there is a very different version of the story on his end).

    I have had situations similar to this before.  The client is a bit intimidated in pointing things out to the contractor but is comfortable telling me.  I'm glad to convey the concern on to the contractor.

    1. IdahoDon | Oct 28, 2006 04:20am | #22

      If an architect/designer called me about a client's gripes I'd remind him that those issues are between the client and myself.  If they continued I'd more forcefully remind them of the same.

        

      Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

      1. bigal4102 | Oct 28, 2006 04:59am | #23

        I can't see how a TACTFUL conversation with the GC would cause any trouble. If that is enough to set him off, a future relationship probably isn't all that desireable anyway.

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