Replies

1. 
   ProDek | May 05, 2002 09:46am | #1

   The spacing depends on how much light you are trying to block out. Normally every 12-16" is good. Usually the plant/vine that you grow on the pergola provides most of the shade. The hard part is waiting for it to grow.

   I use 3x8-3x6-3x3 for most arbors and pergolas because it looks beefier.

   Bob

   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

1. 
   user-169890 | May 05, 2002 06:18pm | #2

   Thanks Bob,I will use a 12" spacing and see how it is this summer when the sun is at its peak.My customer didn't even know what a pergola was until I suggested it for the front of his hair/tanning salon,and since I've never built one before I'll be designing it as I go.Thanks for your input,Kyle

1. 
   Piffin | May 05, 2002 06:53pm | #3

   If this is commercial for a customer, yuou definitely want a bulkier piece of wood than a 2x6. You don't want your name on it in public if it starts wandering around in a couple of years. This attachment shows 3x8 beams @24"OC with upper rails @about 14"OC

   Excellence is its own reward!

   Edited 5/5/2002 11:54:40 AM ET by piffin

   Edited 5/6/2002 1:39:50 PM ET by piffin

1. 
   ProDek | May 06, 2002 07:28am | #4

   Great shot Piffin- did you get to do all those fancy cuts on the ends of your 3X8's?

   Now I was taught a pergola "stands alone" in the  middle of a yard.

   An arbor can be attached to a house or a perimeter structure around a deck or a yard.

   A trellis is a structure like a lattice wall for vines to climb on. 

   But then that could be a whole other subject.

   Nice work!Bob

   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

1. 
   BungalowJeff | May 06, 2002 03:04pm | #5

   Piffin, that was a great shot. It reminds me of all the great pics that I could barely keep up with in the sadly dormant photo gallery....that's not a mistake, it's rustic

2. 
   Piffin | May 06, 2002 08:33pm | #8

   Thanks Bob. The gallery is dormant, as far as I'm concerned. It's too much work to post photos and my ration of space is almost gone. Prospero even counts my attachments in another forum against me.

   I really enjoyed this job. The arch (who did call it a pergola, whadewinoe) was a 87 year old man who had great taste and who retired the next year. He couldn't draw anymore because of a stroke and his verbal skills were waning too. He openned books and verballized what he wanted to see done and why. I really learned a lot in just those few short visits sitting at his knee, so to speak. I drew up what I thought he was describing and got his approval. The owner was delighted too. This also extended to the inside work. I crafted the crossover joints on it as a double locking dado to make it weatherproof and give it strength against racking because of no diagonal bracing.

   Yes, I cut the scrolls as well as designing them. I made a pattern from a piece of galv metal flashing and broker it 90 degrees for a three inch edge to fit the beam. Then I used a Sharpie to scketch it out in front of the architect. Then I used tin snips to cut it out and use for a pattern. Bosch has six inch blades available for their jig saw available. After cutting out, I laid them upside down across the benches and clamped them together. My helper spent a day using up a supply of 4" x 24" sanding belts truing them all the same.

   Excellence is its own reward!

   Edited 5/6/2002 1:48:23 PM ET by piffin

3. 
   ProDek | May 08, 2002 07:14am | #9

   You're right about the lame restrictions Prospero puts on posting pictures. I will be posting all my deck pictures on http://www.Quittintime.com from now on.Great picture just the same. Hope to see where the action is.Bob

   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

4. 
   SMCOLE | May 09, 2002 04:17pm | #10

   Piffin, thanks for posting the picture of your pergola.  I'm reletively new to this site and know little about the old site.  But you have created a true work of craftsmanship in the pergola and it's a shame you can't post more pictures of your work without restrictions.  I'll be checking in at the link posted by Bob, and hopefully see more of your work and that of others.

   I'm curious how you created the interlocking double dado feature.  Did you build a jig and plow out the material with a router or simply set the blade depth on a circular saw to whatever and remove the material between the saw kurf with a sharp chisel?  I'm starting to build my first (and hopefully not the last) pergola at my employers' house, and want to make it a show piece of my work.  I guess this would be considered a T&M project (he pays me a flat per hour labor rate and purchased all the materials) so time is on my side.  Any additional details that I should consider as I layout the design would be helpful.  Thanks.

   Scott Cole

5. 
   Piffin | May 10, 2002 01:22am | #11

   I cut ploughs with the circ saw to half the depth of the lap joint you see. Then I cleaned it up with a half inch by 2-1/2" router bit from Freud. The double dado is in that this plough is half an inch less wide than the opposing beam. I then dadoed 1/4" deep to that size. This way I allowed for shrinkage of the limber and keeping water out of the joint since it snaps together tight. It's like a legos system in effect if not in detail. I did make pattern jigs for this to guide the router. I think that I've got my sample cuts out in the shelf on a top shelf someplace. I'll see if I can blow the dust off and get a photo of them up here in a couple of days so all this is understandable.

   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   sabrehm | May 13, 2002 02:30am | #12

   I believe a pergola has no horizontal members, whereas an arbor does.

   --Steve

7. 
   ScottMatson | May 13, 2002 02:06pm | #13

   Uh Steve,

   You mean a pergola is just a bunch of vertical sticks just sort of in a group?

8. 
   BungalowJeff | May 13, 2002 02:50pm | #14

   I always thought an arbhor was free-standing, usually an archway thru a gate. A pergola is attached to the main structure. ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

9. 
   BillHartmann | May 13, 2002 04:40pm | #15

   Jeff

   I often thought of an arbor as being narrow and usually used as a border or an entry way.

   And a pergola as a more rectangular area used as an outdoor room.

   But from Merraim Webster online dictionary http://www.m-w.com/

   Pegola

   1 : ARBOR, TRELLIS

   2 : a structure usually consisting of parallel colonnades supporting an open roof of girders and cross rafters

   Arbor

   : a shelter of vines or branches or of latticework covered with climbing shrubs or vines.

   But from Getty Art and Architecture Thesaurus, http://www.getty.edu/research/tools/vocabulary/aat/index.html

   Pergola

   Garden structures with open wood-framed roofs, often latticed, supported by regularly spaced posts or columns; often covered by climbing plants such as vines or roses, shading a walk or passageway. Distinguished from "arbors," which are less extensive in extent and structure.

   Arbor

   Designates light, open structures either formed from trees, shrubs, or vines closely planted and twined together to be self-supporting or formed from a latticework frame covered with plants; generally less extensive and less substantial than "pergolas."

   It looks like these terms are really used interchangably, but Getty agrees with me that a pergola is usually a larger structure.

10. 
    sabrehm | May 14, 2002 01:00am | #16

    No, I meant no latticework or horizontal peices on the sides. And by the way, in Australia pergOla pronounced with a long "O".

    -Steve

11. 
    UncleDunc | May 14, 2002 02:10am | #17

    >> ... in Australia pergOla [is] pronounced with a long "O".

    Well, that'll teach me to make assumptions about words I've never heard spoken. I would have pronounced it the Australian way and made a fool of myself. How _do_ we pronounce it in the US?

12. 
    Piffin | May 14, 2002 01:32pm | #18

    found it

    save the image if you want it - I may delete it after awhile because of prosperos space limitations

    Excellence is its own reward!

    
13. 
    SMCOLE | May 16, 2002 04:23am | #19

    Thanks for the images of your sample cuts.  After printing and reading your message several times trying to understand how you created the joint, I think I figured it out, sort of.  I cut 2" W x 1- 1/4" D notches on the top edge of the support beams every 16" O.C.  On the bottom edge of the cross members I cut notches 2-1/2" W x 1-1/4" D and then cut 2-1/2" x 2-1/2" x 1/4" deep notch on the width face to interlock with the 2" W notch on the top of the support beam.  Those cuts look almost identical to the images you posted.  If the weather cooperates, I'll start assembling the pieces tomorrow.  I'll try to post images of the finished product, as well as, the joint I've described above (and the jigs).

     I appreciate your contributions to this discussion.  Your ideas and images helped me improve my design and skills.  Keep the ideas and images flowing.

14. 
    Piffin | May 16, 2002 05:38am | #20

    Sounds like you've got it. The pieces you see photos of are my test pieces for me to adjust my gigs and be sure that I was happy with it. I'd urge you to do the same. There's nothing like a dry run to keep the Cro-Magnon instincts at bay...

    Good luck

    I'm honored that you are impressed enough to imitate it.

    Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   djmarro | May 06, 2002 07:37pm | #6

   Nice work! That wouldn't be at the Samoset Resort would it??

                                                              Dana

1. 
   Piffin | May 06, 2002 08:09pm | #7

   You've got the neighborhood down right.

   It's on a private island home out in the bay from there.Excellence is its own reward!