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Dewalt orbit sanders: 421 or 423?

JohnT8 | Posted in Tools for Home Building on March 7, 2005 08:51am

Looking to pick up a new orbit sander and am leaning towards a Dewalt.

Amazon has the 421k for $69 and the 423k for $89.  As far as I can tell, the only difference is that the 423 has variable speed (7-12k) whereas the 412 stays at 12k.  Is the variable speed worth $20?

Anyone out there have any experience with either one of these?

jt8

The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    — Walter Percy Chrysler

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Replies

  1. User avater
    DDay | Mar 07, 2005 10:20pm | #1

    I like the porter cable better than the dewalt.  I have a few pc's, both 1/4 sheet and radom orbit, with no complaints.  I have an older bosch with the rear handle, thats very nice but a lot more money.

  2. User avater
    IMERC | Mar 07, 2005 10:24pm | #2

    niether... the float bearing is a real pain and difficult to readily find..

    go Bosch... or PC...

    and VS does come in handy...

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!!   What a Ride!

    1. JohnT8 | Mar 07, 2005 10:46pm | #3

      go Bosch... or PC...

      Well there's a big surprise!  IMERC advising people from DeWalt to Bosch  ;)

      What I wonder about is, WHY all of the Bosch sanders have "factory reconditioned"  available.   In order to have a FR model, that means you've got new sanders going bad that need fixing.  And to have a listing for them on Amazon means you have a good collection of FR.  Hmmm... what does that suggest to us about the Bosch sanders  :)

      and VS does come in handy...

      I'm not a real sophisticated sander user (usually just turn it on and go).  How does the vs come into play?  Is it just to allow you to remove less material?

       

      jt8

      The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

      Edited 3/7/2005 2:47 pm ET by JohnT8

      Edited 3/7/2005 5:09 pm ET by JohnT8

      1. User avater
        DDay | Mar 08, 2005 12:13am | #4

        You can get refurbished in any model.  Sony sells refurbish, Dell, etc.  Once a product is sold, if it is returned, it cannot be resold as new.  So that they take back a product that didn't meet their standards and fixed the problem is a good thing.

        Variable speed is nice for many reasons.  It allows you to control the material removal better, helps with the control somewhat and it is needed with some wood, cherry is difficult to sand because it doesn't like the heat of sanding.

        IMERC is absolutely right.

        Edited 3/7/2005 4:14 pm ET by DDay

      2. User avater
        IMERC | Mar 08, 2005 01:01am | #5

        the VS function gives you a real chance to be gentel to what yur working on...

        several folks I work with had the DW's... got sick of the bearing failing during production mode...

        I have the PC....

        Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

        1. JohnT8 | Mar 08, 2005 01:11am | #6

          I have the PC....

          Don't say that too loud.  "they" will come and take the Bosch hats back.jt8

          The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

          1. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 08, 2005 01:17am | #7

            I have no Bosch goodies...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          2. JohnT8 | Mar 10, 2005 09:01pm | #17

            I have no Bosch goodies...

            Its probably just an oversight.  You've probably got a whole mailbox full of Bosch gear waiting for you at home.  ;)

            WELL, the variable speed folks win the argument.  I went ahead and ordered the variable speed DW.

            It got down between the DW and Bosch, but I hadn't seen any reviews that compared the Bosch & DW.  However I knew the DW was supposed to slightly outperform the PC (even if it doesn't outlast it).  So in the absence of data, I opted for the known quantity.

             

            jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

            Edited 3/10/2005 1:02 pm ET by JohnT8

            Edited 3/10/2005 1:03 pm ET by JohnT8

          3. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 10, 2005 09:13pm | #18

            Buy extra bearings...

            you'll need one about 3 or 4 months.... 6 with light use...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          4. JohnT8 | Mar 10, 2005 10:29pm | #19

            Buy extra bearings...

            you'll need one about 3 or 4 months.... 6 with light use...

            So along about August when I'm whining about my sander needing work, you're probably going to dredge up this thread?  ;)jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

          5. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 10, 2005 11:20pm | #23

            nope... I'll never say another word unless you ask 1st..

            the bearing will wear out...

            you'll keep using the sander with it's worn out bearing.......

            the sander will trash it's self 'cause of the bearing some time down the road...

            you'll swear that sander is a "great" little hummer or whatever, toss that one and go get another one... (price motivated of course - isn't that the usual sole reason - cheap "always" makes it a great item)

            then the bearing..............

            participating in planned obsolesence... isn't it wonderful...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          6. JohnT8 | Mar 11, 2005 12:03am | #24

            nope... I'll never say another word unless you ask 1st..

            the bearing will wear out...

            Gaaaaaah!  He's giving me the evil bearing hex!  Somebody give me the countersign!

            The reconditioned Bosch was the same price.  The dustbag on it looked a bit too high-tech for me what with that pleated filter (ie looked like a PITA to clean).

            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006A7T9Y/qid=1110487770/sr=1-32/ref=sr_1_32/103-7307952-6154213?v=glance&s=hi

            If PC, Bosch, Milwaukee, or DW would have given me a lifetime replacement warrenty, I would have jumped on it (and probably been willing to pay extra).  As it is, you just try to use them for as long as possible before they crap out.

            I don't think any of the currently available brands are SUPER reliable.  Neighbor across the street had their Bosch dishwasher catch on fire.  Motor overheated.   They'd paid a premium for that dishwasher...and it still crapped out.

            Granted, its not a 'tool'... but the point is, no one is making tools to last 50 years any more.

             jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

          7. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 11, 2005 12:49am | #25

            so why didn't you buy it 50 years ago...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          8. JohnT8 | Mar 11, 2005 07:28am | #27

            so why didn't you buy it 50 years ago...

            I was buying the 50 yo tools twenty years ago ;)

            But it was REAL easy to give up those key'ed, non-reversable, nonvariable speed drills in favor of the modern keyless, reversable, variable speed ones.  Or that old chrome belt sander where you could see sparks through the grillwork.  Or the 15lbs jigsaw.   And most of the other old stuff has gone by the wayside.  I think my circ saw is probably the oldest tool I've got now.  Maybe 1970's-ish.  Needs a new cord and missing the odd piece, but still a champ.

            I'd be happy with 30 years out of the stuff I'm buying now.  BIL has taken a different tact.  Instead of paying $150 for a Bosch belt sander, he buys 2 or 3 $30 B&D ones.  Burns 'em up and tosses 'em away.  Just like a disposable razor.  Early on I tried to explain to him that if he bought the $150 model, he wouldn't ever have to buy another one...  well, when that $150 one burns up, you feel a whole lot sillier than if a $30 one does.

            But I'm not singling out Bosch.  I've never owned a Bosch tool and as far as I know they are as good as any other tool out there.  When it comes to tools, I'm not brand loyal.  I'll go for whichever one either works best, or is the best for my situation (or best price).

            ..

             

             jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

          9. User avater
            DDay | Mar 10, 2005 10:36pm | #20

            Random orbit sander review.

             

            Fine Homebuilding MagazineAUGUST/SEPTEMBER 2004#165

            YOUR NEXT RANDOM-ORBIT SANDERby Andy BeasleyWe smooth out the chore of choosing this indispensable tool

          10. JohnT8 | Mar 10, 2005 10:40pm | #21

            Geeze, and I've got that issue somewhere.  How did the Bosch and DW compare?  If you don't have it handy, I'll dig it up when I get home tonight.

             jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

          11. User avater
            DDay | Mar 10, 2005 10:54pm | #22

            pc was first, closely followed by dewalt then bosch.  I had the bosch for a few days but decided to return it.  Looked fine but the dust bag was a PITA.  One thing I like about the pc is you can hook it up to a vac for dust collection.  You might be able to do it on the dewalt, but the bosch you need to buy an adapter.  If you wanted to spend twice the money the festool was rated high.  At $150 it should be though.  I know they have a good rep but they must hide gold in them or something for that price.

             

          12. JohnT8 | Mar 11, 2005 07:15am | #26

            pc was first, closely followed by dewalt then bosch.  I had the bosch for a few days but decided to return it.  Looked fine but the dust bag was a PITA. 

            Thanks DDay, that is reassuring that I got the DW and not Bosch.  Consumer Reports had the PC and DW on their sander report (Jan 04), but not the Bosch.  CR had DW ranked #2 as well, but the PC was further down the list.

            Figure if two different reviewers consider it the second best one, that's good enough for me.  I'm sure not the second best person with a sander, so that means its a better sander than I am ;)

             jt8

            The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers.    -- Walter Percy Chrysler

        2. ClevelandEd | Mar 08, 2005 06:02am | #12

          What's your opinion on the 4" PC belt sander?  Intended use is mainly to assist in (spot) floor sanding in this 150 year old house.  I did the easy unwarped floors already with a regular floor sander.   

          1. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 08, 2005 06:21am | #13

            4 by what and which model... I have only used 2 different ones... they're okay I guess... wasn't overly impressed

            I have a pair of Piffen aged Stanley ones that are bullit proof work horses... nothing like them... the 4x24 is outfited with a weight compensator..

            but then again there's the Bosch 3x21 and 4x24 that my people have that are really easy to use and don't wear ya out..

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          2. ClevelandEd | Mar 08, 2005 06:35am | #14

            I was thinking 4 x 24.  It's for floors.  I even wonder how useful a 4 x 24 can be. 

            So Bosch might not wear me out.  I hadn't considered Bosch.   

            Thanks.  

          3. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 08, 2005 06:41am | #15

            get a flush sanding model...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          4. User avater
            IMERC | Mar 08, 2005 06:43am | #16

            a wider foot print does a better job and less likely to dig a trench...

            consisder a 6 by flush sander..

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

  3. MSA1 | Mar 08, 2005 03:23am | #8

    When I got my sander I looked at Dewalt but chose the Porter Cable. I thought it felt better in my hand.

    Check it out.

    1. mikerooney | Mar 08, 2005 04:18am | #10

      I had one of the Dewalts w/ var. speed. It crapped out on me after very little use.

      I think the var. speed is just one more thing to go wrong.

      Guys who really use these things a lot, buy a bunch of them and put progressive grits on them so they don't need to change paper back and forth.6 16 17 97 99   

       

                                                          

       

  4. lostarrow | Mar 08, 2005 04:02am | #9

    I have a 421. The H&L pad quit hooking and looping. Couldn't keep paper on it. Went to Lowes for a replacement pad. They didn't have one, so I bought a 723 VS.  I ccould see absolutely no advantage with the VS. It sanded slower,but who wants to sand slower? I ended up by taking the pad from the 723 and putting it on the 721. One day I"ll find a new pad for the 723.

    Be not afraid of going slowly.  Be afraid only of standing still.   chinese proverb
    1. User avater
      DDay | Mar 08, 2005 05:31am | #11

      "It sanded slower,but who wants to sand slower?"

      It will sand the same speed if you turn up the dial.  The variable speed is valuable depending on the project.  Some times you want a slower speed for control and with some wood like cherry, you want the slower speed because high speed (and thus heat) will damage the surface of the wood.  It is worth the extra few $$.

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