Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 06:16am | #1

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   I'm not a big believer in using diamond lath in mortar beds simply because the strengh of a drypack bed comes from compaction. IMHO heavy stucco mesh or 2" x 2" welded wire mesh is much more appropriate. I have used galvanized lath for small contained areas such as countertops. My reasoning has to do with the required overlap and the clear possibility of a 'cold-joint' when the expanded metal lath is placed in the middle of the bed.

   To answer your question, regardless, float half the bed thickness. Place your reinforcement and then place the balance of your mud (of course you need to place enough to compensate for compaction) and then set your screeds, whether they be dago or wood lathe, and then do your compaction. Rod off to finished height. Shotgun in your screed voids if you used wood lathe and then wood float the excess off. Steel trowel.

   Place your level on the finished work and smile at yourself in the mirror. You have just created something that 99% of those in the tile trade have never done!!

   What a pity!! What was once a well respected trade has been reduced to watching courageous DIY, weekend warriors do what the detractors could not muster up the pride!! And boy can those 'lickem' and stickum'' guys come up with a bunch of excuses why they don't float walls and floors.

   Just my opinion of course.

   Post some pictures of the process. "Professionals" or so the lickum and stickum guys like to call themselves should get a good look-see at what the trade was built on.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 07:10am | #2

   *"How do I elevate the lathe so it stays in the middle of the mortar?"You don't. Just nail or staple the lath down tight. On walls be sure the holes go up so that the mud is held in by the mesh.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 08:42am | #3

   *Regional differences Mike?Why even use the lath??I do agree with your advice on walls. I would add that "if you rub your hand 'down' on the lath, it will feel rough".How much 'mud work' have you done to offer the advice you are giving Mike? Can you substantiate the advice you are giving? You didn't offer it as your opinion. Am I wrong?

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 05:53pm | #4

   *Jeff - I hesitate to jump into the fray because I am not a tilesetter, but FWIW: the tilesetter I have been using for years uses the same method Mike described. Maybe it is just good luck but we have never had a problem with one of his floors. Maybe it is a regional difference; Mike and I are both on the East Coast. Come to think of it, my mason, who occasionally lays tile for us, uses the same method also.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 10:06pm | #5

   *Nick,I have been insulted in many ways, but being accused of being from the East coast is a new one.I hope you realize that after the Big One everything east of the San Andreas fault will fall into the Atlantic ocean and I will be safely in San Diego.Lath is not reinforcing, it is a mechanical attachment of the mud to the substrate. A reinforced bed is a mimimum of 1 1/4" thick and should have welded wire fabric (2x2" 16/16, 3x3" 13/13 or 1 1/2x2" 16/13) in the middle of the mud. Furring nails are suitable for supporting and securing the reinforcing. Reinforced installation is usually used over wood subfloors.Lath should be attached direclty to the substrate. Rib lath is not allowed in ceramic tile installations. Lath installation is used for walls, floors, ceilings and countertops.

2. 
   Guest_ | Feb 04, 2000 11:00pm | #6

   *I'm confused.When I removed my old shower stall's mortar bed, there was no diamond lath, just reinforcing wire in the middle of it. The mortar bed itself, just lay on top of felt paper over the plywood subfloor.In Michael Byrne's book "Setting Tile", I also didn't see any lath being used to anchor the mortar bed to the wood substrate.I'll be hiring someone to tile a large, walk-in, doorless shower.How should the mortar bed be done for a durable, high quality installation (in So Calif)??

3. 
   Guest_ | Feb 05, 2000 02:23am | #7

   *My mistake, Mike. Thanks for the warning about the Big One but I will take my chances here in PA.

4. 
   Guest_ | Feb 05, 2000 04:38am | #8

   *See the TCA Method attached. The method that MikeM was speaking of will be in the next post.I apologize to Mike for not recognizing the F145-99 method in my earlier post. I was not considering that the TCA had recently included this method. Maybe they included this method in response to some regional practices that simply nailed wire lath to the subfloor and skimmed it with thinset.It is important to note that method F145-99 mechanically disconnects the mud bed from the subfloor allowing it to float. This allows the wood assembly to expand and contract independent of the tile/mud assembly. I still prefer method F141-99 for its seemingly greater mass and integrity.Jeff

5. 
   Guest_ | Feb 05, 2000 04:41am | #9

   *Method F145-99 that Mike Mahan was speaking of in his original post.

6. 
   Guest_ | Feb 06, 2000 12:23am | #11

   *so either way (lath fastened to substrate, or reinforced mud without lath) is equally durable? is it strictly tile setter's personal preference? or a regional preference thing? I'm no tile setter (obviously), but it seems mechanically & structurally peferable to de-couple dissimilar materials from each other (mortar bed vs. the wood floor) so they can expand & move independently.

2. 
   Tom_Wagener | Feb 06, 2000 12:23am | #10

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   I'm doing my first mortar bed installation with diamond lathe. How do I elevate the lathe so it stays in the middle of the mortar? They do not make saddles that support the lathe like in concrete work I have done