I’ve had these lyrics in my head tonight:
| Did You Ever Have to Make up Your Mind? |
|
Did you ever have to make up your mind Did you ever have to finally decide Sometimes there’s one with big blue eyes, cute as a bunny And then you know you’d better make up your mind… Sometimes you really dig a girl the moment you kiss her And then you bet you’d better finally decide… The reason is I had been struggling with making up my mind about doing a remodel project that I had lined up that would have kept me busy all of Nov., Dec., and Jan., which would have been a good start to winter for me, and mostly all inside. But….the owner is a micromanager. He tried to select my subs for me. He got prices from other subs himself. He changed his mind about every detail. He would ask me questions, and then later he would call a lot of his buddies to see what they thought. He went and priced material at HD. He also works out of his home, so he would have been around every minute. His wife doesn’t work, also around every minute, although I think I could have gotten along with her fine. I knew this, and had been trying to make up my mind whether or not to shut up, keep the secure job, and just grin and bear it everyday, or just tell the guy that I really didn’t want to do the job. I then would have to scramble and hope to fill the time with other projects. I called him tonight and told him that I was not interested in doing his project. (That was my gut feeling, that I was headed for three months of grief.) He said he was totally surprised, and I’m sure he was hurt and offended. Of course, I gave up what would have been decent money, and I risk him bad mouthing me. After I realized that I really didn’t want to do the project, I thought that I should call him right away and tell him so that he could start looking for another contractor. I just went with my gut on this one. I feel like I did the right thing for the both of us. Opinions? |
Replies
Sounds like an intelligent reasoning to me, unless you had massive debt or needed the work for whatever reason.
I always say sanity and no stress rules all the time.Why shoot yourself in the foot.
Big world out there with plenty of opportunity.
cheers
Pour a drink and raise a toast to yourself for trusting your instincts. You'll never know how it would have worked out, but what's the point in gaining all the years of experience you have if you don't use them to guide decisions like this?
listen to the gut. every time I didn't I've regretted it. every time.
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
http://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
You did good grasshopper! Don't second guess your decision, move on.
That sounds like it would have been exquisitely miserable. I have to call someone I met with last week and tell them I will not take the job, and I'm not looking forward to making that call.
Loving Spoonful,
and you did the right thing.
my dad was a contractor , he told me one of the reasons to be successful in this biz is knowing what jobs NOT to take
Naw you listened to your gut. Karma, whatever. Greener pastures are around the corner. I read the posts that proceeded me and I say agree, agree, agree, uh huh, yup . . .
As I like to say. You know its the right decision when you don't completely like it.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Great song. One of my favorites from them.
I, like everyone else, think you did exactly what you should have done. All to often we (I) get lost in the business aspect and forget that our work often involves a relationship that is closer than selling them a car or an appliance as our clients live with us for a period of time. Personal tendencies can ruin a job on both sides.
We just had one where the woman was indecisive on any detail, hubby is an attourney for legal aid and she tells me they turned in the local franchised pest control company because they got termites, to the attourney general. Think we'll pass even though at the moment we could use the work. DanT
Opinions?
Ha! Congratulations on keeping your sanity and, even more importantly, your freedom.
Probably the most significant reason for putting up with all the burdens of running a small business is the feeling of freedom it offers. NOT being held down by the oppressive hand of a controlling entity is what has always attracted me to being an independent contractor or sub.
That's equally true when dealing with clients or potential clients who are tyrants/control freaks. I swear that such people see a small businessman as prey, someone who can be manipulated by the cash flow that the client represents.
That's why, IMO, it's important never to tell a client or potential client how nicely their job fits into your schedule or how significant the income from their job may be to your economic picture. Those who have control issues will seize that information and use it to manipulate you for their profit and pleasure.
It took me a while, years in fact and numerous clients/contractors, to learn what I now offer as advice. But now I find it easier to foresee problems of this kind and to decline to participate.
Again, my sincere congratulations and respect to you for having gained the insight required to maintain your sanity and freedom.
Edited 10/10/2007 6:58 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Been there done that,and done the other. Boy did I regret it.
Only one thing to say, ditto on all the above posts.
You did exactly the right thing.
>You did exactly the right thing.Only part that stinks is we missed out on a potentially great "Homeowner from Heck" thread! He shoulda been thinking more about US.
Edited 10/10/2007 10:38 am ET by CloudHidden
I was thinking the same thing. It could have been a 2000 post thread over the next 6 months and with Heck as the author, the illustrations could have been very entertaining. Oh well, we'll continue to follow the saga of gunner's tyvek with baited breath, waiting for the next installment, same gunner time, same gunner channel <g>.Still lurking after all these years.
Dude probably would want to make sure you didn't make "too much" profit too.
Did You Ever Have to Make up Your Mind?
Brings back some memories. I met my wife at a Lovin' Spoonful concert November 10, 1966.
It's hard to turn down what could be a profitable job, but it sounds like you made a sensible decision. Some clients are just not worth the aggravation.
Like everyone else has said already, well done!
The only thing I'd like to add is that, for me, every time I've turned down a project for reasons like yours, another better job always shows up. Often times as good or better money, and always more enjoyable.
(p.s. My wife usually has to remind me of that fact when I'm facing the situation myself) :-)
I'm curious about the spurned client. It looks to me like he didn't need a project manager or GC in the first place--at least in his OWN opinion. In my younger days I took on a similar project and only learned later that the fellow was an attorney with a specialty in construction law. We were set up like a bowling pin, he never intended to pay and we never got paid for the job--even after months of punch list work.
I'm over it now financially, but it still makes me angry to drive by that house, and that was in the mid 80's.
Sleep tight my friend--you did the right thing.
One time a took a remodel on for the sleaziest lawyer in the county, he sued every contractor in town, I gave a price just time and he buys his own material on his own lumberyard account, I told him i will work with my helper every week, comes Friday i get a check, no check im not here on monday, He said what contract are you giving me?? i said none your to smart for me anyway you just wont see me if i dont get paid on friday, I did the job and everybody came round wondering how i could work for this guy, Could be there was no one else left for him to get. I figured the most i would get ripped off for was one weeks pay but never did, No doubt in my mind if i gave a bid he would have nailed me, We became good friends but i did not want to do any more work as he kept wanting to cut corners on things that were unsafe like covering up bad electrical wires doubt i would take this job on but back then was starving and got out alive
Yeah, thanks a lot. Ruin it for us! In a month or two we would have had a fantastic thread about the client from he11. Now you've up and ruined the whole thing.
[edit to add] OK, looks like Cloud already made the same comment.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Edited 10/10/2007 11:49 am by JohnT8
You did the right thing and now you'll probably do the right thing sooner in the future when you encounter clients like this.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
With this home owner working out of his house, he likely would have become your life had you taken this job, after all he's there almost 24/7 with nothing else to focus on but his house and your work?
Good choice.
Ditto all the rest. When I started my business15 years ago, I had a similar offer (but very different work area). I'd had no income for six months and cold panic was setting in. The work would have been for 12 months and six figure income, but guaranteed hell. I said no. Two weeks later got another client, at three times the hourly wage! Fabulous and continually fun experience.
Life lesson. Learning how and when to say no is what separates work from drudgery.
Frank
Yep, ya did good.
Through the 90's and up to a few years ago I did a lot of sub-contract installs for a 30 person cabinet shop here. Along came some new owners and .........well, we just didn't see eye to eye. No I was not going to match the price of somebody else willing to do the job at 2/3 of what I bid. No I don't think it is reasonable to wait 2.5 months to be paid. etc.
So we parted ways. They were about 1/3 of my work, and I also picked up reference work from some of the jobs they brought me. Struggled for a bit, but did some marketing, and came through OK. (though not without some second guessing the choice of breaking away)
2 weeks ago I got a call telling me the cabinet shop folded, and knowing the way things were, everybody they owe is going to get stiffed.
Bowz
Thanks to all who took the time to respond and share some wisdom and humor.
Although a 'Homeowner from Heck' thread would have been a classic, it will have to wait until a sneakier homeowner comes along.
I wish I had learned this lesson many years ago, but I have always had a problem saying no, and it has cost me several times.
No longer.
always hard to do ...
especially heading into winter.
'cause we always look at the bright side of things ... hope against hope.
sometimes I've actually been smart enough to do what U did.
sometimes not.
Like Dad always said ...
"U never lose money on the job U did not take ..."
smart man that Dad ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I think you made the right decision. If you took the job soon you'd have another song's lyrics going thru your head (words slightly changed).....
Of all the clients I have won or have lost,
There is one client I should never have crossed
He was a one in a million my friends
I should have knows I'd be s****ed in the end.
I'm a looooooser...........
Runnerguy
Please, come and be my business manager! I'm in the middle of nearly the same situation... and, even worse, they're real friends of mine and my wife... remuddle on<G> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
so every body says you did the right thing,yeah you did real good so you will you have alittle time on your hands so time to start preparing for winter.
go to the store while you still have some change and buy about 3 cases of ramon noodles,some pasta[sorry no sauce or meat] and since your celebrating buy a 6pack of the cheapest rot gut beer in the cooler.
now go home and explain how santa claus just had a wreck down at the corner,he looked in pretty bad shape,so you think they will call off xmas this year,so no need for a tree or anything.
one of the reasons i know how to prepare for a long winter is i have plenty of experence. told a good renter that was a huge pia to move if they didn't like it,so they did.if it ani't rented in the next 2 weeks i'll probably be looking at it till mid feb.what the hay it's only 1100. a month x5!i called my kid and told her she ought to start picking up all those stundent loan forms pretty quickly and told her how smart i was for telling them to move.
man i love being a independant,stubburn,and always right type of guy! well cheers i've got some chicken broth on the stove ...... larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Larry, sometimes you gotta take a stand.
I've learned from the past that if I take a bad job, or keep a pia employee, I don't look for a better job or search for a better employee. Once I realized that, I figured out that it's actually better to cut your losses before they begin.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Heck,I'm sure you did the right thing. If you fealt uneasy about it, you are right to walk away.That said, this sounds like most of my clients. I actually like having them around, getting emotionally invested in the actual process of building. I have one guy who is half-blind from diabetes who parks a chair about 10 feet from where I'm working and watches me all day, and asks lots of questions. I miss it when he's not there because he's off at dialysis. It can only work if you are very clear about what you are charging and how you make your living. I work cost-plus. I put in writing and tell them in no uncertain terms what my hourly is, that I markup all materials by x percent, all subs by x percent. I explain that this is how much I have to charge to make a living. I hand them an invoice on Monday for last weeks' work and get paid by that Friday. My invoices have very detailed materials breakouts, not stick by stick, but dated lumber-yard invoice summaries.They see me and my guys working hard every day. Most people can't believe how hard we tradesmen work for a living. I've never had anyone question whether or not I deserved what I was charging. Some people can't afford it.I really like getting close to my clients because restoration work (my specialty) is a personal, passionate thing and the homeowners and I get extremely vested in the outcome together. I'm booked up for two years. Many of my past and continuing clients have become good friends whom I socialize with regularly.Some clients turn out to be pains in the arse, and I don't work for them again, but I've never lost money, even on those jobs.I know many guys around here who simply could not work that way. They want to get in, get out, get paid. I need to get more out of it than that. It takes up too much of my life to just be a job.You know your gut, and you did what it was telling you was right, so that's what matters.Steve.
Thanks for the post. It sounds like we feel the same way about our profession, I wish I was as good at expressing it as you did in this thread.
Jobs where the Owner/s are very involved are the jobs I go after. I tell them that we will become a team, and that we are all responsible for making their dream become a reality.
I have never minded anyone watching me work, I figure they probably get tired just watching! Working with my hands is what I do, and who I am... I love sharing that with people.
This Owner was not only being difficult in the initial phases, he was making it clear he preferred cutting corners over doing things the right way.
I have sweated blood for my customers too many times to have to put up with a micro-managing corner-cutter, even if it leaves a hole in the schedule for a while. The money end of it has always been secondary to the satisfaction I get out of doing something that people appreciate.
I think I did the right thing, obviously, or I wouldn't have played it that way...but it was difficult to let myself do the right thing and give up 3 months of work when I am still rebuilding my company after moving to Colorado.
They say that when one door closes, others open.
I'll let you know.
Thanks again for posting.