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Difficult ceiling condition

Jeff_Clarke | Posted in Construction Techniques on February 1, 2007 02:09am

The photo attached shows the ceiling condition over the center of a kitchen where:

1)  The framing to the left (#2 DFir) is under a roof deck and tapered (for roof pitch) as well as (to be) insulated for a usable roof deck.   Insulation will be foamed in place to minimize air/condensation.

2)  The framing to the right (I-Joists) is under interior space above.

3)  The flush framed steel beam sits between.

I am concerned about minimizing cracking of drywall at the ceiling through this condition, especially with dimension lumber on one side and engineered lumber on the other.   We will be using 5/8″ rock for the ceiling but do not have enough room to cross-strap and furr the ceiling with 1 x 4s.   I was thinking of possibly tying the two sides together with high-tensile metal strapping (steel or stainless steel carton strapping) to minimize movement but this would only work for tensile strength.

Any ideas on minimizing cracks?   Thanks in advance?

Jeff

 


Edited 1/31/2007 6:10 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke


Edited 1/31/2007 6:26 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke

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  1. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Feb 01, 2007 02:27am | #1

    This illustrates what I'm describing -

    1. Piffin | Feb 01, 2007 10:54pm | #4

      I don't think the steel strapping will help much.
      The movement you'll get there that will challenge the sheetrock will be moisture and thermal in the various types of materials.Strapping is the obvious - to me answer.  

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. JamesPio | Feb 01, 2007 11:35pm | #5

        Is a continuous plane of drywall really necessary for the design or could you get away with something  a little different?  Depending on the size of the room, it might not cost much to apply battens in a uniform pattern (perhaps a 3'x3' grid?).  Put a drywall seam right over the steel beam, a batten right over that seam but attached to one side of the joint only, so it floats over the joint and covers the spot where cracking is most likely to occur. There are potential problems with this approach as well (not least of which is cost), so pick your poison. "If the trout are lost, smash the state."

        1. Piffin | Feb 01, 2007 11:58pm | #7

          For future reference, when you reply, there is a drop down "To" box where you can choose the person to whom you wish to reply to. That assures you that they will recieve an email notice and they can read it. since you replied to me instead of Jeff, here I am.I'm sure he'll notice it since this is his thread though.As long as you have my attention - a coffered ceiling would be a way of hiding things like this, but if he does not hae room for a 3/4" strapping in his elevation, I don't expect he would have room for your Psuedo-Coffered battens.
           

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. JamesPio | Feb 02, 2007 12:25am | #8

            Yep, Piffin, I'm aware of the "to" function, just escaped my notice this time.

            And, yep, you're right, if doesn't have head room to strap, he won't have head room for my idea either.  But that's just like most of my brilliant ideas, they tend to suffer from the same problems that led me to try and think up a solution in the first place.
            "If the trout are lost, smash the state."

          2. Piffin | Feb 02, 2007 01:52am | #9

            Keep polishing the bulb. It'll get more and more brilliant.If you are bald, ignore that 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  2. Geoffrey | Feb 01, 2007 03:38am | #2

    Jeff,

       You don't have enough room to lose just 3/4" in headroom ?? I'd strap it if you can, BUT, don't fasten the strappping (or your metal straps) to the beam. Wood shrinks in depth more than in length, so if you don't use strapping and the wood shrinks, you will tend to see a "bump" in the ceiling at the beam, If you use strapping, you have nothing to worry about, since the strapping will isolate the D/W from the beam.

    In any case I would span the beam (with the D/W) so there are no joints near that connection(of the two ceilings and the beam), and, if you go with the metal straps (as proposed), I would not fasten them to the beam either. Using the 5/8 D/W will help to prevent telegraphing of any movement of the ceiling framing a little, but it won't hide major movement. I think strapping (1x3) is the way to go.

                                                                                                                Geoff

                                                                                      

  3. sungod | Feb 01, 2007 08:34pm | #3

    I would not add straps across the beam. Things to do in order from better to best.
    1. Just install the sheet of drywall centered on the steel beam lengthwise and screw every 4 ".
    2. Install 1/4" plywood the same way as #1, then drywall with staggered joints.
    3. Install 1/2" plywood and do the same as 1 & 2.

    1. mikeroop | Feb 02, 2007 02:33am | #10

      your first suggestion works well!!

      1. User avater
        Jeff_Clarke | Feb 02, 2007 05:29pm | #11

        I'm liking that one too ... if the framer hadn't set everything an inch or so low already I would cross-strap.   But at this point I'd lose 3/4" in counter to cabinet clearance.

        Thanks for the thought on 'is a continous plane necessary' - I'd say 'yes' here ;o)

         

        Jeff

        Edited 2/2/2007 9:36 am ET by Jeff_Clarke

        1. mikeroop | Feb 07, 2007 04:05am | #12

          jeff,

          we do mostly large addittions and remodels and in almost every project it seems like

          we have the same situation,regardless the arcitech, and it has always seemed to

          work well.

        2. Piffin | Feb 07, 2007 04:53am | #13

          Depending on cab style, you could lose an inch there maybe.This your place or a clients? 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Feb 07, 2007 07:24am | #14

            Mine ... and I am the 'arcitech' too ;o)

            Can't lose 3/4" -

             

            Jeff

          2. Piffin | Feb 07, 2007 12:21pm | #15

            I knew you were the guy with the pencil. I was windering about final authority... 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          3. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Feb 07, 2007 03:11pm | #16

            'final authority' -

            Is that the technical term for 'it's always the Architect's fault'???  ;o)Jeff

          4. Piffin | Feb 07, 2007 03:28pm | #17

            Well, there is SWMBO to be considered, but I was thinking of how sometimes the most practical solution is onethe owner will reject.in this case, you can have that argument with yourself.;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. MSA1 | Feb 01, 2007 11:43pm | #6

    I would just make sure I didnt have any seams at the beam. I would also use setting compound as opposed to joint compound for the first (if not two)coats.

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