I’m looking for advice – especially from those who actually OWN relevant camera equipment.
I’ve decided to get a ‘real’ camera. To me, this means a digital SLR.
Digital, because it seems every pic goes into the computer these days, and I need not have the hassles of developing film.
SLR – Single Lens Reflex – because the viewfinder shows me exactly what the camera sees. You know what the internal meter is looking at, so you can adjust your exposure and focus to suit. Finally, you can change what you see using different lenses.
Things I’d like to know include:
1) What ‘essential’ stuff is not included when I buy the camera?
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?
5) Are ‘reconditioned’ cameras worth the risk?
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards?
b) Use filters? Which ones?
c) Need an extra battery?
d) Use a separate flash?
The camera will be used for job site documentation.
Replies
Sounds to me as though you're looking to spend an aweful lot of money for a rather basic need.
I have held off purchasing a digital camera as my 20 yr old 35mm SLR refuses to die.
But a jobsite will never see such a camera.
Why not invest in a less expensive model? Heck....they even make diposable digitals nowadays.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
A fair question ..... I've used SLR's in the past, and the ability to actually see through the lens, and precisely control exposure, has made a huge difference in my pics. Perhaps this is because I'm often taking pics at fairly close range, in either poor lighting, or a very high-contrast situation. (Try taking a pic of a white cat sometime) Cost? So far, it looks like the expenses will start at about $500, plus another $100 for accessories. So, yes, we're talking REAL money. That's why I'm seeking advice. I have a pretty capable photo editing program (the "Gimp), but the best editing seems to be to get it right in the first place! I've tried two 'disposable' digital cameras, and the results have been far worse than even the disposable film cameras. A photo class ... even just raw experience ... does make a great difference. I even had one once, long ago. It's probably been decades, though, since I last had a "real" camera to use. It's been a long road ... things have greatly changed since then ... and I'm finally in good enough shape to consider fulfilling this dream of mine.
Fair enough....but it does sound as though you have greater plans for this camera than merely jobsite photos.
Good luck.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Well, to be honest .... I do have a 'second career' going on the internet. I tend to take lots of pics of jobsite work details ... then post them for comment on various internet sites, or to illustrate sundry code rules. Moreover, since much of my work is 'behind the drywall' .... having pics of my stuff before it was buried is a real help when I return to the place 2 years later.
renos..... i've had cameras since the late '60's....
digital for about the last 7 years
dSLR for the last couple of months..SLR 7 raw are good for photojournalism and prints
but for job site documentation, point & shoot is hard to beat.... and you can shoot in the right resolution for direct download to the internet ( about 640 x 480 )
go dSLR if you want... but realize it's like stepping off a cliff....
you can process .jpg with simple programs... but cataloging, processing and printing all have to take place after you snap the picture
i like B&H Photo, Nikon, zoom lenses..... if you go dSLR, make sure you are not getting into a deadend body system.......
ie: there are some entry level dSLR's that will not handle all of the mfr's accessories... there are lot's of sites that review all of the cameras , with opinions about their pros ...& cons
i love the dSLR's , but all i really needed for internet, job documentation, and great photos is a point & shoot with a display lcd
my Nikon CoolPix 995 with a swivel body did everything i needed..... but it can't shoot RAW
RAW is what i need for the next level
so now i have a d80 w/ 18-135 mm kit lens (great lens ! )
i catalog in ThumbsPlus 7.0
i process in Thumbs & Irfanview
i process RAW (NEF ) in Capture NX
and i have 7 years worth of pics spread out across 4 computers...
i also have a darkroom with lots of equipment that cost a lot when new, that nobody wants anymore..... with carousel after carousel full of slides
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Haven't read the entire thread in depth as it seems like there's a lot of overlap...But going back to your original budget of $500-600...that's not a lot for body, lens, flash, filters, etc. That budget gets you a body, kit lens, a "nifty fifty" (which is used differently on a crop camera), and a bag.Add an additional $250 for flash. $50 for memory. A battery grip(for comfort) $200. Etc.From the sounds of it you'd be better off with a G9 or S5IS (or equivalent). Both are considered superzooms. Both have viewfinders, manual modes, hot shoes for flashes, the G9 has RAW support.The G9 goes for about $450 and the S5IS for about $350.But that's just my $.02
What's your budget? This could get expensive in a hurry :-)
First, check out the Cannon vs. Nikon thread from last week - lots of good info there. And if you are talking "good" those are the two brands to look at.
The body is the tip of the iceburg. The real costs start to add up when you start buying good glass. All depends on what you like to shoot. Close-ups, like Calvin does - you need a macro lens. Interior shots, or big landscapes with both foreground and distance in focus - wide angle. Lots of hand-held, or low light, look into image stabilization.
So, what typically doesn't come when you buy the camera? Usually package deals only have so-so lenses; best to buy body & lens separately. Of course it all depends again on what you want to shoot. A basic body & lens combo could well be a great way to get started, though if you get bit bad (just ask Calvin) you're gonna want to start upgrading and will end up paying more than getting the good stuff to start with.
The most important attachment I've found is a tripod. That and a good photo class.
I've been very happy with B&H Photo; others like some of the other on-line merchants. Impossible to match selection & price vs. retail. Beware the "grey market" products - they are waranteed by the dealer instead of the manufacturer cause they were not intended for the US market. Can be a hassle if you have problems.
I'd stay away from reconditioned digital - things are changing so fast that whatever you get new will be outdated in a short period of time; reconditioned makes it even more outdated. Just my opinion.
Most important filter in general is a UV - if for no other reason than to protect the lens. Polorizer is nice if you do a lot of landscapes. I've used warming filters (amber) at high elevations to help with the excess blue, but that's with film. With digital I'm willing to bet most of what I know is wrong.
I am a huge fan of separate flash - more control, further from the lens to reduce red eye. Again, $$$.
Start with a class. This can be a huge (and highly addictive) investment; going in informed will really help you to make the best choices for your situation.
Try to answer some of your questions. For a quality digital DSLR's take the cake for sure, but are very bulky and expensive. Canon G-9 is a near DSLR point and shoot that may be worth considering. I have a couple Olympus P&S cameras that are waterproof, dustproof and shockproof, and very compact that I love for having on a jobsite in place of my SLR's most of the time.
Back on topic though to answer your questions:
1) Kits from most retailers will have everything you absolutely need. Slylight or Haze filters to protect your lenses are a must. For getting the most out of your camera you will be shooting RAW, and will need appropriate software to deal with that too. A good camera bag is a must too. DSLR's are big and expensive and require lots of other stuff. You need a way to carry and protect it all. I would think about a tripod too
2) Filters, speedlight, batteries, memory... More details in the rest of the response.
3) They are all pretty good. I would go Nikon or Canon. I have had Nikons for decades so can't afford to switch, but starting from scratch today I'd get a Cannon 5D. That being Said I hope to get a Nikon D-300 soon. For what you are going to use yours for I would be looking at a D-80 or a 30D though.
4) B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com).
5) No
6) a) Typically not, cards have gotten big enough to hold a days worth of shots
b) Yes. All my lenses have a skylight or haze on them all the time. I have broken several filters, but never a lens (knocks on wood). I also like polarizers for lots of shots, Neutral Density filters for shop shots, particularly welding/grinding shots, Gradient filters for many things. Filters can be tons of fun, and cost lots. Post processing can do most of this for you to if you prefer to go that route.
c) Yes. Absolutely.
d) I'd say yes to this too. It is not manditory, but improves the shots greatly. The capability, power and effect from built in lights is typically very poor. A flash is often needed inside, especially to keep your ISO down and reduce noise. Flashes are well worth the price imo.
Hope that helps, but keep in mind it is just one man's opinion.
Rob
I've now owned 4 digital SLRs - all Nikon. Two of the four I've bought used off of Ebay and have been thrilled with each purchase. I'm close to buying their new D3.
Things I'd like to know include:
1) What 'essential' stuff is not included when I buy the camera?
Depends on whether or not you're buying a "bundle or kit" or just the straight camera. Make sure you get a decent range zoom lens, battery, and charger at a minimum.
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?
A tripod or monopod and a decent camera bag to hold everything. I suggest two storage cards, 1 GB minimum each. Get an extra battery. A polarizing filter is a nice touch if you're shooting outdoors. And think about either a long telephoto if your jobsite photos are big/distant, or a wide lens if your work keeps you in more confined spaces.
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?
Nikon or Canon and nothing else. They both make very good quality products up and down the entire range. I'd go for a Nikon D40X which lists for around $650.00 or try Ebay and look for a Nikon D50. I've seen them for under $500.00
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?
Ebay for used or an online retailer for a new model. The brick and mortar stores don't know squat about digital SLRs, so there's no point in paying more.
5) Are 'reconditioned' cameras worth the risk?
Yes, if they come with a warranty.
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards? Yes.you never know when a card is going to get lost or fail outright. They are cheap enough now, so keep a back up.
b) Use filters? Which ones? UV. Polarizing, make sure its a linear polarizer unless you are buying a high end camera. Also a Graduated Neutral Density filter.
c) Need an extra battery? Yes.
d) Use a separate flash? Nice to have but an extra expense for sure.
Here is the best site I've seen for comparing cameras in depth.
http://www.dpreview.com/
Edited 1/21/2008 4:30 pm by pino
what kind of batteries do you use?
I usually buy an extra Nikon battery when I purchase the camera, then switch to Impact batteries if I need more after the fact.
pino old pal, whenever you get ready to throw your old stuff away, just call me
anytime, night or day including Holidays and I'll save you the trip to the garbage can, no point in wearing out your shoes ..:) buddy you always were my favoriteaw shucks !!!.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
I bought my Nikon digital camera in 2004. I didn't want to pay extra for the SLR, which Canon offered at the time, although I wanted an SLR to be able to view the picture without running down the battery.
Now you can get Sony, Canon, Nikon, and I assume Pentax digital SLRs in a competitive price range.
I didn't opt for the $50 for an extra battery when I bought the Nikon, but picked one up for $20 around Christmas last year. I never needed it, but not having an extra battery with me made me operate my camera much more cautiously, so I probably missed some good shots.
The same goes for the memory cards. I got the biggest one I could find at the time. Again at Christmas, I picked up an extra 1G card for about $10. That would have been about ten times as much four years ago. Anyway, I would get both extra memory and an extra battery now if you can afford it.
The camera has worked flawlessly. I will probably not live long enough to learn all the features that it offers, and I don't plan to die anytime soon. It has done everything any regular camera has done for me, but much better.
I have the zoom lens that came with the camera. Since I do not specialize in photography, this has more than served my needs. The built-in flash is very good and works without any input from me.
I bought mine for job site documentation and advertising when I started my own framing business. Although I decided to quit the business, I still use the camera to document any work I do. I also use it for nature photography and general use.
I would always think twice before buying any used or reconditioned electronics.
In Jan of 71, I was just coming back from Viet Nam with my Pentax SLR. I had been developing my own pictures over there. Our flight stopped in Japan, and was able to buy filters at the airport for about $3 apiece. It was a great deal, but after a little experimentation, I decided I was not enough into photography to really learn to use filters.
Last story: I volunteered to be the photographer at my ex-wife's sister's wedding in 72. Although the Pentax had given great service, I opted to add an external flash - a really good one. Unfortunately, I did not try it out before the wedding. When the pictures came back, they were outstanding - at least on the left half. The other side was black. I was an idiot after that. So try your flash out first.
If you are going to get heavily involved in photography an SLR is the way to go. For job site documentation a point and shoot digital is more than enough.
The point and shoot cameras have an LCD screen which shows exactly what you are photgraphing. The better ones have a 6X or better optical zoom which will cover almost all job site conditions. And they focus down to 1 inch from the front of the lens. The built in flash is surprisingly powerful, plenty for the job site. I use a Canon A710 IS.
When is an SLR the better choice? If you are taking pictures in low light or at night with no flash and when you are taking action/sports photos (the SLR has no noticeable shutter lag). The SLR also tends to have a larger photo sensor (MUCH more important than the number of megapixels) and therefore the photos will have less noise and can be enlarged more than the point and shoots.
Extra memory card? Depends how close you are to your computer for downloading. A 2GB card in a 7 megapixel camera at the maximum picture quality setting holds about 600 photos. The 2GB card is about $40. You won't have to dump too often.
what about renting ?? It might help to make a hands-on choice for a lot less than buying it
that link I gave you last week has Canon SLRs in their rental catalog
here is the catalog:
http://www.calumetphoto.com/pdfs/calumet-rental-catalog-2007.pdf
the closest stores are in Calif.
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, wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
I bought a Nikon D40 as my first real digital camera. It's a great piece of equipment and I highly recommend it. I may buy another lens or two eventually, but it came with everything I need for shooting my work in progress.
As far as I know, there aren't any digital cameras made in this country. You are going to be buying Asian, possibly European.
1) What 'essential' stuff is not included when I buy the camera?
The Nikon D40/D40x/D50 kits (or similar package from Canon) gives you a body with built-in flash, one or two zoom lenses, recharger too I think. Pretty much all you need to get started.
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?
Case. A fast 50 mm "standard" fixed focal length lense. Memory card.
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?
Nikon is good. DSLR bodies compatible with a large array of new and old lenses.
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?
Camera store.
5) Are 'reconditioned' cameras worth the risk?
If the price is right and the dealer reputable, probably yes.
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards?
b) Use filters? Which ones?
c) Need an extra battery?
d) Use a separate flash?
None.
Just get a basic kit and get started.
Yo,
Here's another example of what a filled out profile would do to further explain your situation. You mention jobsite documentation, but I'm not clear on what you do.
I'm a remodeler. Dust, mishaps and a van. I'd never take my Digital SLR on the job unless the job was in the condition of completely finished and ready for that party they all claim they're gonna have for the guys. The 7 y.o. point and shoot zoom Kodak I've got does all the progress shots. For that I got an add on close up and telephoto (sort of) lens. Today there are point and shoots mid price range that do ALMOST what the lower priced DSLR's do.
If you really want to take pictures after work, I'd go along with the others that the lens is the key. You can easily spend more for a couple lenses than you've got in the body. BUT, you can build that stash of lenses. A good body (which changes every year, tho the basics remain the same) is important. My Nikon D100 6mp started out at about 1600.00 with a Nikon 28/200 zoom. A decent all around lens, but not for short wide shots. With some add on close up rings you can use it for moderate Macro shots. For REAL closeups, a macro lens is a must. With an adaptor ring, you can add those close up rings to the macro and get even closer to the subject. You'll see things that you don't see with your eye.
Tripod, you bet. Even with the vibration reduction lenses, unless you've got something to rest on, most timed exposures need Steady. 150.00
A couple 1 gig cards won't be much. An extra battery is a must, and don't forget to keep it charged and warm. Good bag to protect and make it possible to carry all the above. You can start out with a small bag, but soon outgrow it with a couple lenses etc. Couple hundred for the above should do it.
Since my name was brought up as a known addict I can tell you that IF you catch the bug you'll want to continue. And continue you can if you get a body that you can build on. In these times of change I'll not try to predict what new may be on the horizon.
And all of this can be costly, at least if you spend on all of it now. Or, you can take an important first step and build on it like many of us have. It'll still be money, but won't "hurt" so much.
Oh yeah, you can print on the same printer you invoice from. You will get the same great shots you took, but they won't have the pop if printed from a quality printer. But, there's many camera places and sams club, drug store, costco that produce decent prints. So that 700 bucks for a decent printer could wait too.
Best of luck, hope you have as much enjoyment as I've been having.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Edited 1/21/2008 8:03 pm ET by calvin
I bought my wife a Nikon D50 last Christmas. This was an upgrade for her 35mm N65. We had just had a baby, and I realized the $40+ charge for developing multiple rolls of film was going to quickly pay for the digital upgrade.
1) It cost about $399 for the camera body, which also included the battery and charger.
2) The only accessory we had to have was a memory card, she already had filters and a good case.
3) I bought the D50 model because her old lense (& filters) fit the D50 (and also I believe the D80 and D100 - should double check that) camera body. The D40 isn't compatible with these lenses.
4) I bought it at a local Ritz Camera Store. The particular salesman I saw personally used a D50, so that helped. Also, I purchased a comprehensive warranty from them that is supposed to cover any problem I have including accidental breakage. That made me feel better about carrying around such an expensive item with me. It was about $80 per year of coverage.
6) a)When I plugged in the 2 MB card and set the camera to take the best possible pictures, the screen told me I could fit over 500 pictures, so I've never felt the need to have another one. They are getting cheap, though, so it probably would be smart to carry an extra one.
b) I believe the only filter we have used is the UV, and that is mostly to protect the lense for us.
c) The battery lasts a very long time (weeks to months between charging), so we've never gotten another. Might be smart to carry an extra one, though.
d) We've only used the built in flash
This has been one of the best purchases we've ever made. It allows us to take as many pictures as we need to until we get a good shot (great for babies) and it takes them really quickly (also good for babies). It feels just as quick as her N65. We are by no means very good photographers, but this camera lets us look like we are. Hope this helps!
Jamie
I'll insert my 2 cents though much has already been covered...
1. A DSLR produces finer and more workable photos at 6 megapixel than a pont-and-shoot does at 8-plus. Partly the optics, partly the chip configuration. In the same way an SLR is better than an equivalent point-and-shoot film camera, you'll see much better pix from your DSLR.
2. I bought a Nikon D50 with two lenses (18-55 and 55-200). Cost me $599 two years ago at 17th street photo on the Internet. I learned some things:
3. I must have a speedlight. The onboard flash sucks battery power and generates red-eye and shadows. I bought the SB-600 since the SB-400 was not available yet. The SB-600 is delightful beyond words. I took 600 wedding photos with it and it made it a pleasure to work with. (Side note...I bought an SB-400 last month when I was on the way out for vacation. I was unhappy with it. Sucked batteries. Not much better than the onboard flash. YMMD)
4. I needed to read the manual and buy a manual written in English. The manual I got was written by a Japanese writer, and was obscure at best. Even after reading the manual cover-to-cover (as well as the other book...) I still need practice, and have trouble remembering the settings. May be getting old. Could use a cheat sheet.
5. I buy a half-dozen 1gb memory cards at $12 each and keep 'em all around. Don't fill cards. Change them often so you never risk losing more than the pix you've taken in the last few hours. The cards are dirt cheap. Don't ever use a new one without formatting it and then testing it to be sure it's working right.
6. I bought 3 non-OEM batteries for the camera. If you don't use the onboard flash, the battery lasts all day and more. The non-oem batteries are my safety valve in case the main battery runs out. They are much less robust, but will do in a pinch and cost maybe $10 each instead of $30-40. Buy 'em on eBay.
7. The DSLRs are bulky and somewhat heavy. On my vacation in Barcelona, I took great pix, but the camera was always in the way, and I had to protect it from drive-by theft, so it was a pain.
8. I completely agree on the UV filter. It protects $250 lenses with a $10 filter. Again, buy 'em on eBay.
9. Be sure to carry lens cloths and spare batteries.
Good Luck
If you're looking for a little more reach, they've got an 18-135 that runs only $250. It's not terribly fast, but the glass on this lens is pretty decent, especially for the price.Me, I've got my eye on an 14-24mm f/2.8G ED. Just haven't figured out how to justify both this lens, and a new D3, and an additional 30" Cinema Display, and...I swear it never ends.
Edited 1/21/2008 9:57 pm by pino
1) What 'essential' stuff is not included when I buy the camera?
Depends on from where you buy it. Reputable sites (B&H, J&R, Ritz, Adorama) list what's included in the package. Others will advertise a low price and after they have your credit card number ask "oh, you want a battery with that, right?".
"Essential?" The MOST essential things: 1) a filter to protect the glass on the lens and 2) A bag to protect the camera. You can either buy a bag to carry your whole stash, or for jobsite walking around, consider a holster-type bag. Very handy. the holster is like a six-gun holster. Easy to carry the camera without wondering where on the jobsite you left your bag with all your goodies in it.
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?
For jobsite shots? Start with a couple of basic lenses. I've had a Nikon D70 for a few years now, my first two lenses were the 18-70mm which came with the camera and the 70-300mm (#1924) which I picked up for about $250. The 18-70 is a great lens, sharp, no problems. The 1924 is fine for everyday shooing, but is does get soft from 250-300mm. Still, for jobsite work it's more than you need. Fine photography? You'd need more.
Realize that with the sensors on these cameras, the sensor is smaller than a regular 35mm film frame. What that measn is that the "mm" rating on a DSLR is not the equivalent "mm" rating were you to use the lense for shooting film. Use a multiplier of 1.5, so shooting digital with a 70-300mm lense is the film equivalent of a 105-450mm lens when shooting film. It helps you reach longer on far shots, but hurts you on close-ups, as the 18mm now is 24mm.
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?
I tried Canon and Nikon. The Nikon D70 body felt great in my hands, and seemed natural. Some of the smaller bodies were too small for my hands. The D70 has been supplanted by the D80.
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?
I tried out the cameras at Best buy, but they had none in stock and couldn;t promise me a delivery date, so I bought online from B&H. I've spent a lot of money at B&H and J&R, both give excellent service.
5) Are 'reconditioned' cameras worth the risk? Not for me. I don't know enough about them, so personally I'd shy away.
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards?
Yes. Because someday you'll get to the job, fire up the camera, and only then realize that your one and only card is still plugged into the card reader at home. Ouch. I use Sandisk 2GB Ultra II compact Flash cards.
b) Use filters? Which ones?
Yes, mandatory UV to protect the glass. Get one for each lens. Screw it on and forget about it. You can buy other filters once you figure out what type of photography you'll be doing.
c) Need an extra battery? Yes. The Nikon comes with a battery housing into which you can load three disposable camera batteries ($3 each at the drug store). Or you can get a second backup "real" battery. But you can buy that later. Again, no need to $$$$$ up front.
d) Use a separate flash? Depends on your camera and where/when you take pics. Again, you can get one at a later date.
I used the 18-70 and 70-300 lenses for quite some time and was very happy. For sports I had to finally upgrade my long lens, so I now have a Nikon #2139, which is a 70-200mm 2.8 lens with VR. Outfrigginstanding lens. The VR (vibration reduction) is sick, it allows you to shoot hand held where you previously would have needed a tripod. The faster glass also allow shooting in light that would otherwise shut down a lens with slower glass.
Do realize that megapixels in DSLRs are not the same as with point and shoot cameras. A 6MP DSLR can easily outperform an 8-10MP point and shoot. The sensor is more refined. Less noise in the camera.
Ramblin man, r-a-m-b-l-i-n ramblin, oh yes oh yes oy yes...oh nooooooo.
Good luck with your purchase.
Mongo
I'm waiting to receive a little Canon A570IS i ordered a few days ago. It comes with a 2GB Kingston SD card and i was wondering if it would be worthwhile for speed of downloading 20-30 pics at a time to get the Sandisk Ultra II like you have or Kingston's equivalent upgrade. I looked at the speed charts, but couldn't find any discussion of whether the better card would make a non-detectable difference between blazing-fast and lightning-fast, or if there would be a discernible dial-up-v.-DSL kind of difference. Can you advise about the transfer rates? Do you prefer Sandisk over the other brands?Or perhaps i'm obsessing...
splinty..... tansfer from what to what ?
usb 2.0 devices are prettty damn fast
getting it direct from camera to computer takes about as long as hooking up the cables
using a card reader is equally as fast
renaming , culling, editing and cataloging are all time consuming
and then you can start processing
the fastest cards are the ultra.... say 133x.. i think i've seen 250x
but the newest technology is UDMA card & UDMA card readers... whatever they are.. they are supposed to be the fastest
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/21/2008 11:29 pm ET by MikeSmith
tansfer from what to what ?
There is a speed rating for how fast the image writes to the card - which influences how quickly you can take pix one after the other - and another rating for how fast the card uploads to the computer. The Sandisk UltraII writes at 60X, or 6X as fast as the Kingston card bundled with the camera i ordered. The ExtremeIII writes at 133X. My understanding is that the time between shots begins to lag as the card fills up, too.
Transfering to the computer isn't quite as critical and i do use a card reader. At least it worked with my SmartMedia card...hopefully the other slots aren't full of cat hair already. <G>
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Splinter,Odds are your camera can't take advantage of an Extreme card. Ultra would be fine. That extra speed comes in handy when your camera is capable of taking pictures at 8 or 10 fps. Or you are shooting a lot of video...which isn't generally recommended on a P&S.But I would say that Sandisk is probably better than Kingston in general.
I forget what card came with my camera, but it couldn't write fast enough when doing continuous shooting, that's where I eventually ended up with the Ultra II cards.I can't max out the write capability of the Ultra II.So yeah, the "write to" speed of a card could be a factor. But as far as downloading the pics off the card to your computer, that's a limitation of the USB or Firewire port you're running the info through.And for all reading this, don't forget to regularly reformat your cards.
A little explanation sir.
And for all reading this, don't forget to regularly reformat your cards.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
As files are written, transferred, and deleted from a card, file errors can occur. Some can be obvious, some hidden. Everything may be peachy until something screws something up, then there go the pictures of your kid's graduation ceremony.While it's not terribly difficult to save files off of corrupt cards, why go there in the first place.Reformatting the card on a regular basis can eliminate card errors and prolong the life of the card.Reformat it on the camera, or by using the software provided by the manufacturer on the CD that came with the camera. I usually do it prior to a "new shoot" and do it in the camera.Sometimes cards can get screwed up by reformatting them via your desktop.The most common way that cards get corrupted is by doing something while files are being written to the card; turning the camera off, removing the card, etc. There's usually a small light on the back of the camera that is lit when files are being written.I'm not that familiar with this, since I only use 2GB cards, but I've heard that some cameras and more commonly, some card readers, have difficulty with cards over 2GB. Not sure if its FAT allocation related or not.Mongo
As I'm oft to say.........
"well, I'll be dipped in ####."
thanks again for some pertinent information.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
cal... i would think that" format card"
is a menu item on your D100
i format my 2gb card every time i download pics...
i find the menu format is easier than the simultaneous 2-button format built into the D80Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
yessir, in the tools section of the menu.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
and TBone...
I'll order the Sandisk UltraII and keep the Kingston as an insurance policy. I thought i read that the downloading speed was also affected by the card's internal speed, not just the USB connection, though. Any rate, you've both helped me decide on the brand and the level of quality i need - THX!
Looking forward to hearing about reformatting....
Excuse me if this has already been mentioned here or in the Canon v. Nikon thread, but i found Imaging Resource to be most useful when upgrading from my 1.3 megapixel 'antique'.
There's a link on the left hand side of the page to "Compare sample images" between two camera choices that i found most helpful. I'd choose ISO 800 when the images started to fall apart and compare specific camera models on the exact same subject and lighting. I spent hours comparing highlights on beer bottles and texture of embroidery floss....
Also, the pricing information was up-to-date.
Things I'd like to know include:
1) What 'essential' stuff is not included when I buy the camera? dont know
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?Tripod
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?Look at the Sony Alpha it is what i have and it is a great camera.
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?Got ours at best buy?
5) Are 'reconditioned' cameras worth the risk?dont know, i suppose if you bought it local and it has a good warranty?
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards?I dont as the 1 we have will hold a bunch of pictures, we took it to the redwoods and took tons of pictures everyday for a week and still had plenty of room. Its a big card with the camera set at 4 megapixels.
b) Use filters? Which ones?I need to get a polarizer, dont know why its just what all the experts say. : )
c) Need an extra battery? Lasts along time, on the same trip we recharged before we left and once during.
The sony camera is basically a Minolta body with all of Sonys hitech stuff stuffed inside, I was told you can pick up very good quality lenses for the old Minoltas at garage sells and flea markets for next to nothing. Havent looked yet myself.
We purchased the camera w/70 to 120 lens? and the bigger lens that goes to 300mm. with the charger , battery and i think a smaller card for $799.00 the camera is very user friendly (atleast for me and im a neandrathal)
expenses will start at about $500, plus another $100 for accessories. So, yes, we're talking REAL money.
When I saw this post, initial impression you were about to spring for 5 to 10 thousand!
Brother is pro wedding photog, son graphic arts and some pro photo. Brother's basic rig was $6k, lots more add-ons. Lotta people there want 32 inch blowups.
As to essentials, unless you want to run to wallyworld for prints or happy with 8-1/2 by 11 paper prints, you need a printer, didn't see anybody else mention that - unless all you are doing is to post on your website, then your basic $400-500 is OK.
One item that also have not seen mentioned: most the SLR digitals under $1K (if not all) have a CCD about 1/2 the size or less of a 35 mm frame, so if you have 'leftover' lenses from film 35 mm cameras (like all my 30 YO big $$ pentax lenses), the apparent focal length is not as wide angle as you thought, about 1/2.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the pointer.
1) Case. Pick out one that's convenient to use.
2) Most need no accessories anymore
3) I have a Fuji I love, but all the name brands are good. Just get something with image stabilization.
4) Most retail sources are priced competitively, but you can do a bit better on the internet.
5) New cameras are cheap enough I wouldn't bother with reconditioned. (Though I suppose you can get really good deals.)
6) a) I carry a spare memory card. I never erase my cards, but store them as the "negatives".
b) A UV filter is useful to protect the lens in dirty conditions.
c) Always have an extra battery -- they go flat inconveniently. (Case should have room for battery and memory card.)
d) No need for separate flash, and few cameras have flash connections anymore.
Of course, all this goes out the window if you're a photo geek. But you wouldn't be asking if that were the case.
On my first reading I missed the fact that you said "SLR". My question is why do you want to spend an extra $200 or more for an SLR when there are many fine pseudo-SLRs available starting around $250? If you're a photo-geek, sure, but it doesn't sound like you are.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I've used other cameras, some of extraordinary quality, that were not SLR's. Personally, I found it made a tremendous -in both the picture and my confidence- when I used a camera that let me actually see what I was taking a picture of, as I composed the shot. This was especially important when I was using any kind of zoom lens, or when I was near the minimum focusing distance. That's why I'm looking to 'take the leap' to an SLR. As others have noted, the dollars it looks like I'll have to spend will cover only "the basics." No fancy lenses, no studio set-up, no motor drive, etc. I also seem to take a fair number of pictures in conditions that challenge the 'point and shoot' cameras. I mentioned my white cat; you'd be surprised just how hard it it to get the exposure right! Off the top, I'd guess that 80% of my cat pics are over-exposed.
Another challenge can be from job site lighting. That is, when you're trying to take a pic of a dark area next to a bright spot (like next to a window opening), or the opposite situation.
With an SLR, I can see exactly what part of the frame the meter is using to take its' readings .... as opposed to the usual 'trust me' arrangement most P&S cameras have.
The pseudo SLRs are a good compromise. You're viewing through the lens, and you have a choice between conventional viewfinder and camera-back LCD display. With the zooms available (from 12x to 16x optical) you don't really need interchangeable lenses unless you're gonna be doing macro or deep telephoto work.If you do want to play with exposures, you might investigate how difficult it is to do simple stop adjustments. One complaint I have about my Fuji is that I can't simply fake a stop adjustment by adjusting the virtual film speed (when I have a bright background, eg). Rather I have to go full manual. So you might want to look at that feature on the cameras you consider.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
have you checked out this site.
http://photo.net/community/it covers just about everyone and everything digital ...
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
The better point and shoot cameras have multiple options to adjust exposure for white cats or other difficult lighting. For example the Canon A710 has Manual Mode, Exposure Compensation, Snow, and Beach settings. You can also adjust the Metering Mode and see which portion of the picture (via the LCD) is being used for metering. Don't dismiss the point and shoots because of the name; they can do more than you imagine. My camera came with 2 manuals, one is 35 pages (the Beginner Guide) and the other is 139 pages (Advanced).
One area where the SLR is better is where depth of field is important. With an SLR you can selectively focus on your subject and blur the background (or foreground). The point and shoots have small sensors and consequently small focal length lenses that everything is almost always in focus regardless of f/stop.
One more point on batteries. The point and shoots usually accept AA batteries. When the camera can longer function because the battery is "dead" they are still good for flashlights and radios - and for a looonnng time. You will get better battery performance if you use rechargeable NiMH batteries.
"when you're trying to take a pic of a dark area next to a bright spot (like next to a window opening), "
That's where a really good flash and metering system (available on the semi-pro & pro models) is a godsend. They "know" how much fill flash to throw in so you have the foreground exposed correctly. One of the best shots of my daughter's wedding was before hand when she was sitting in front of a window - perfect exposure.
You need a camera that you can override the automatic settings and set exposure levels yourself. The better point and shoot ones will do that.
I have also been looking at a digital SLR, and the best thing out there with a "reasonable" pricetag with a 35mm sized sensor is the Canon D5.
There are also reports on the web about excessive dust accumulation on the sensor and a mirror problem (ie: falling off) with that same camera.
Price of admission, body only with a USA warranty from a legit seller is $2k.
"L" series lenses start near $1k apiece.
Other Canon "pro" models start at double the price, body only... but are weather sealed. The new 1Ds Mark III lists out at near $8k, body only.
The D30, 40, 50 will take the same lenses as the other film cameras and the D5, and 1Ds Mark series. Other than the 1D cameras, all others in the Canon line use a smaller than 35mm sensor.
I believe the Rebel series uses unique lenses.
Nothing against Nikon, just already have some Canon stuff.
If the intent is jobsite documentation, I would *seriously* consider a point and shoot over a digital slr.
The Panasonic Lumix DZ23M with the 10x optical Leica lens is a nice camera, and very easy to use.
Olympus has a model that is water and shockproof out of the box- supposedly will take a 5' drop to concrete (or something like that).
I personally own a Canon G2, which is a nice point and shoot (and I bought it new when the G3 came out at near $500.00). I'm sure the latest incarnation is even better, but that Panasonic is pretty darn nice.
The built in flash on my G2 is better than the one on that particular Lumix model.
Some Canon point and shoot models that use AA batteries are plagued with poor reviews about battery life. Do your own research there.
Almost all manufacturers have gone to lithium battery technology, some batteries are removabe... some not. If you live where it gets 40*F and below, those lithium batteries do not like that. Short circuiting lithium batteries is a dangerous proposition if you keep an extra one loose in your pocket.
A camera with AA batteries can be used anywhere you have more AA batteries...
I would *never* buy a reconditioned camera unless it had a better warranty than new.
Memory cards *do* fail. Just because you can fit 200+ pictures on a card doesn't mean you should do it. My brother lost a lot of baby pictures when his card (a Kingston) took a dump with a couple hundred shots on it. Download often.
Unless my employer reimbursed me for a digital SLR, or I earned my living taking jobsite pictures, there is no way in h e l l I would bring my own personal SLR (digital or otherwise) to a typical jobsite.
Edited 1/22/2008 6:20 am ET by danski0224
I believe the Rebel series uses unique lenses.Nope, they make EF-S lenses that only fit crop cameras; i.e. Rebels, 20D, 30D. But all the EF lenses will fit from the Rebel on up to the 5D and better.
Edited 1/22/2008 6:39 am ET by TBone
The new Nikon D300 and D3 are supposed to have an incredible dust reduction system in place. Gotta believe that will make it to the D5 or the follow up model soon enough. Canon always seems to be on the heals or ahead of Nikon in the dSLR race.
It's funny how Canon and Nikon always seem to be leapfrogging each other.Canon is supposed to drop some big news at PMA on Friday. Some are saying that if it's not the 5D's replacement that Canon is going to have an uphill climb.
I haven't jumped into the SLR digital world, but I do like buying from these guys. They seem to have good prices and fast service.
http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/
BTW, Leica has introduced a digital version of it's classic M body. Only about $5500, lens not included. If you have a bottomless wallet. But then, it isn't an SLR
I have not read the thread but I know this stuff. I will try to address.
A digital SLR rocks and it is comparable to a frameing with a Nail gun VS hand nailing. SLR VS digital cam for action shots. You can get them without an SLR the lag time is just to long
Things I'd like to know include:
1) What 'essential' stuff is not included when I buy the camera?
More memory, you will need it
2) What accessories / attachments do you consider worthwhile?
Better lenses if you need them you may not, a good flash is optional as well
3) Any makes / models you prefer / hate?
Nikon DXX the D40 I hear does not accept other Nikor lenses.
4) Where would you go to buy one? Mass Merchant? Camera Store? Internet?
The cost is long forgot after the quality is achived.
5) Are 'reconditioned' cameras worth the risk?
6) Do you: a) Carry extra memory cards?
Yes
b) Use filters? Which ones?
not as a rule
c) Need an extra battery?
yes
d) Use a separate flash?
Yes for pro quality photos
The camera will be used for job site documentation
May be a bit much for Job site documentation but it rocks for action pics of the kids. I won't use anything else. but you are going to spend a lot of money on this. I have to say that if that is all you want to do a Digital SLR may be a bit to much. If you want to capture the moment of a kids game it works great. I have some of the most amazing pictures but unless you want to capture action dont spend the money. Digital SLR gets action photos, regular Digital gets Images.
If your goal is job site pics it is way overkill and not the right choice. If you want to capture action, it is .
>> Nikon DXX the D40 I hear does not accept other Nikor lenses.
The D40 and D50 camera bodies do accept other Nikkor lenses, if "other" refers to lenses not supplied in the kits. If "other" is a typo for "older", then yes there is an issue.
The D40 body, unlike the D50 body, lacks a built-in autofocus motor. This allows for a smaller size, and helped control cost, but it limits the camera's autofocus compatability to the AF-S series Nikkor lenses (which have their own autofocus motor.) So you'd have to manually focus some of the older Nikkor lenses (which may or may not matter to you).
I'm not sure about the D40x. Anyone interestd in these cameras should investigate the details, because there may be other issues related to body/lense compatability (mounts, pins, etc). But I think it's safe to say that if you're an amateur who does not already own many older Nikkor lenses, you would not be too restricted with any of these bodies.
I stand corrected. I guess I confused the auto focus aspect with general compatability.