What’s the website for that guide?
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Replies
eddie...
http://www.eurekazone.com/
Eureka! Dat's the one!!
B1. U can B1 2
Yep, there's gold in dem der hills.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John RuskinAndrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generationsWe can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Rez, you ever check this guy out?B1. U can B1 2http://www.williamsteig.com/cdc_hc_fr.htmHighly recommended readingcdb<G> "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
I always think of crazyman Joe Walsh tune 'The Alphabet Song' when I see letters like that.
be C?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John RuskinAndrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generationsWe can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
acbc<g> "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
Thanks. By chance I bought the current issue of FHB the day brfore but had not opened it yet.
Which brings me to another thing ... I can't believe Dino was rated #3. I kinda understand Festool getting #1 except that at that price it's not even up for consideration. But the second place device has homemade plywood carriages. So the degree to which the blade is aligned with the straightedge is a function of the owner ... that's a definate negative. And you have to use home made guage blocks to set the straightedge offset from the cut line ... another definate negative.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sure you read that right?I don't have my copy handy, but I remember EZ came in a whisker behind Festool. The other one was a "best value" or something like that.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
yeah , i think it came down to Festool & "cheapest" and a more comprehensive test would have given the nod to EZ
it was a big stretch giving that clunker "best value"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i will never forget the opportunity i had in high school algebra class, while watching another student working a problem on the blackboard, at the precise moment when the working of the problem came to an obvious abrupt hault, to shout "LOST AT C !"
timing is everything
ROAR!
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"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
You're right. But how can something be "best value" when it has homemade plywood parts and does not automatically align with the cutline? Apparently the users time is setup is not a factor. Ironic, because the whole reason for using the EZGuide, and other self-aligning tools, is speed of setup.
Did you look at the picture of the saw on the plywood sled? It's held in place with fender washers.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I agree with you. I think that the EZ Guide got shorted; they should have done a better price/performance analysis. If you're going to have to measure the setback from the saw guide for each cut you might as well clamp down a straight board and go for it.
Plus, they totally ignore the fact that the EZ Guide is a system with a lot of attachments and the table, which is shared only by Festool.
Billy
If you want a system that's simple to use and deadly accurate then the Festool system is hard to beat. Though I think that the guy who designed most of their stuff was left handed ;-)For about $770.00 you can get a complete setup with a 55" rail, saw and vac. http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=3&prodid=561174
Deadly accuracy comes from a deadly accurate tape measure and a deadly accurate pencil on the hands of a deadly accurate user with deadly accurate vision. Time after time.
Where is the provisions for accuracy with the edge guides?
Only the ez smart provides deadly accuracy with the square/cabinetmaker/repeaters.
To replace the tablesaw you need repeatability on panels and narrow cuts. The only guide with this CAPABILITIES is the...EZ SMART.
The same ''edge guide'' that isn't an edge guide, provides the best anti splintering protection with any blade and saw.
(...at least that was mentioned)
David.
So wait, the Festool isnt as accurate as the EZ? And I thought the article said that the Festool had the best splinter free cuts? maybe I'll re-consider the Festool then.
David is just saying that the festool doesn't have the "repeater" option that allows you make a bunch of same-width rips without measuring.
I've seen Dino demonstrate that repeater, but I'm still not convinced yet. It looked like it gave a little bit (ie: not that sturdy compared to the rigidity of a table saw fence). also seemed to be pretty fussy to set up and change widths between cuts.
...but here we go again...it always comes back to EZ vs. Festool.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Billy,
I agree with you. In ignoring the capabilities of the EZ smart they really just used a narrow focus in the article by looking at breaking down sheet goods. If they would have broadened the scope and first looked at all the cuts you make with a TS, then look all the guides to see which one could replace the TS I think the results would have been much different.
I might be asking too much from a magazine article/author to be totally familiar with all the new tools out there, but when you use a certain tool a then read an article about it is obvious when some things are left out or not reported.
The versatility of the EZ comes to light after using it over and over for a multitude of applications and cuts. It might be too involved for a page.
I have to keep pulling for the underdog.
Jericho
Festool does a lot more advertising then any of the others!
To be fair, the saw was attached with washers because we used one saw for all the guides. Using screws or tape is better and recommended although for our purposes the washers were what we needed to use.jross -- FH Editorial
I'm curious about something - Do you guys who use th EX guide buy a dedicated saw and leave it on the thing? Or is it fairly easy to swap one out?I've thought about getting one. But for no more than I would likely use it, I hate to invest in another saw.
Winning isn't everything. Winning and gloating and rubbing their noses in it ... that's everything!
You can use it off the guide with no issue other than losing some depth of cut BH (for the SmartBase). If you want to be able to cut 2x with the SmartBase installed, you have to consider one of the larger saws (e.g Hilti), otherwise it's a piece of cake. I've been using mine all day making some cabinets and I gotta tell you it's sweeeeeeet.
PaulB
How hard is it to get the "SmartBase" off?Like if I wanted to take it off for a while to do some framing or something like that.
Love is like a roller coaster: when it's good you don't want to get off, and when it isn't... you can't wait to throw up.
There are two different ways to mount the saw to the base, BH. I used this nuclear blast strength double stick tape, you can also use T nuts and bolts drilled through the saw's base plate. Then you can remove it if you want... I'm 99.999% sure it's described on the site.
http://www.eurekazone.com
nuclear blast strength...ya, you got that right. And I went ahead and added the Tbolts too.
Needless to say it is a dedicated saw.
I'm thinking Boss is concerned over not being able from complications to use the saw for framing cuts on 2x's after he puts the ezbase on.
So the question might be how long it would take him to remove the base from the saw after he originally goes thru the process of drilling the saw for the tbolts.
Not being the betting type I would still bet if he gets one and starts using it with any regularity at all he would end up dedicating a saw to the guide system.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I agree entirely...
BTW BH... when I got my first EZSmart, I was also hesitant, but knew I would dedicate a saw to it so I bought a really cheap (70 bucks I think) Ryobi just for that purpose (now use a PC) and it was a remarkably good saw for the price. Good dust collection, brake... not badly constructed. Depending on your use, it's worth a thought.
PaulB
When I first got the EZ, I dedicated a new Milwaukee and used the sticky tape.
Then I realized I didn't like ripping from L to R ( I been doing R to L for too many years) with the guide. So, I bought a new PC Left blade and a NEW base that will be screwed on. I also got new edges for the ez t o make the change.
I dedicated my OLd, really, old Milwaukee for Hardie cutting being as it should have died 10 yrs ago, and the damm guard is impossible to keep fron sticking, I shortened the spring, oiled, waxed , graphited, and tefloned the bastid, and it still hangs.
The 18V Dewalt is my main saw on the job, cuts everything from 2x wood to gutter and downspout, it would be cool if it would work with the ez, but then I'd need even more parts and batteries...
signed, E.Z. Sawyer.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
Maybe I'm just being slow Sphere (in fact, that is almost certainly the problem...)
but if you are used to ripping R to L, why not just cut on the other end of the plywood? These saw guides can be used on either side of the track, and the track can be used anywhere on the sheet - what am I missing?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Working in tight quarters and I like the guide to stay on the waste side and I can remove the rips from the table more easily.
The other side of the guide is set for 45 degree bevel rips. The anti chip edge is different.
Small shop space limits the way I have to work direction of cuts and such.
And I also have not done a lot of sheetgoods cutting with it since I don't make cabinets.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
oooh, ok. I had forgotten that one side would be set up as a 45 rip. It's been awhile since I used the EZ setup.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
The latest from the ez forum.
Use the same rails to make a workbench/tool system.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=42941
david.
Edited 10/10/2006 12:18 pm ET by davidwood
You're gonna have to try that again - The pics don't show up nuless you'er logged in at his site.
Leadership is not about being nice. It's about being right and being strong [Paul Keating, Australian Prime Minister]
My intension was not to get into a pissing contest as to what system is better, just to say that for about $770.00 you get a very accurate system with excellently designed and engineered components not to mention superior dust collection. When I said accurate I was referring to the design of the saw and rail system, not the fact that if you are a crafts person you should be able to measure accurately and cut to a line. Since the corner stone of the Festool system is the saw, it is designed better then any saw you can attach to and EZ guide plate. Call me old fashion but I have a hard time fastening things like saws to anything with sticky tape and I’m going to get dependable repeatability time in and time out. Further it’s hard for me to believe that a Ryobi $89.00 with a great blade is going to cut like my Festool saw time after time. Granted I don’t have a Ryobi $89.00 saw or an EZ so I can’t say for sure.One thing you won’t get with an EZ setup is remarkable dust collection. If you factor in what an EZ costs a decent saw with dust collection and good blade and a vacuum you are most likely to send more and get a lot less. Since no other saw is designed to extract dust as well as the Festool saw. This is what my vac looks like when I change the bag. . .http://josephfusco.org/Images/Festool33vac01.jpg
http://josephfusco.org/Images/Festool33vac02.jpg
http://josephfusco.org/Images/Festool33vac03.jpgEdited 10/10/2006 4:28 pm ET by Joe
Edited 10/10/2006 4:30 pm ET by Joe
When I said accurate I was referring to the design of the saw and rail system, not the fact that if you are a crafts person you should be able to measure accurately and cut to a line.
If I have to measure accurately every time... where is the SYSTEM?
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Same with cutting tapered narrow strips.The ez system provides Smart Clamping to the narrowest strip.
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If I have to use my tablesaw for the narrow cuts... where is the SAFETY of the SYSTEM?
Dust collection? Festool-Hilti-PC and few others have good dust collection. But they all need dust shields and covers to give you 99% capacity. The fact that all the above saws work with the ez smart is an ez plus.
David
I can cut 1/8" strips all day long and never take out a tape. . . Is there a point in that picture somewhere?Same goes for the taper. I'm not even going to comment on what you said about dust collection and those other saws. . .Edited 10/10/2006 5:41 pm ET by Joe
Edited 10/10/2006 5:41 pm ET by Joe
From the ez forum.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=42570
Edited 10/10/2006 6:44 pm ET by davidwood
Edited 10/11/2006 9:13 am ET by davidwood
If you are trying to point to images on the Sawmill it won't work.You can download the image and them upload it here. But that is frowned on.
joe.... how ya been ?
i can get as smooth a cut with my ez and a $9 blade as you can with your festool
and my pc has a dust port and my fein vac has an auto-on switch
what else ya got ?
one thing i'm not sure of..
i think you have to plunge your festool saw and hold it down.. is that true ?
i mean , if you let go of the saw , will it automatically withdraw from the cut ?
BTW... shame on you for not showing up at Andys... we all missed you
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,I’m doing just fine. Sorry I couldn’t get up to Andy’s I just had a lot on my plate at the time. I thought Vince was going to swing by, but we never made it.Now I really doubt that you can get the cut with your setup as I can with mine, but once again I don’t have your setup. My Festool saw is one very well designed tool. If you do let it go it will come up in the cut so I don’t let go.Mike I’m sure your happy with your EZ and my point was not to say one is better or worse then the other just giving my opinion.Onder, they are about 15 to 20 bucks for 3 bags. I guess the more you use it the more you’d need to empty it.
Joe
I've had my EZ for about 9 or 10 months. I've cut out and built 3 large kitchen jobs in that time and I'm fairly sure that my cuts using my Hilti saw are every bit as good as those from your Festool saw.
Theres no question that the Festool saw is top of the line and I dont use a $9 blade on my saw but what is it that you think your saw has that mine cant duplicate as far as quality of cut is concerened?
I just recently had the chance to use a Festool saw and rail, its a very well made tool, no complaints about it but I wouldnt trade my EZ for it either. There was no way that the Festool was doing anything that my EZ couldnt match in terms of quality. Plus the EZ has more options that I feel make it a better tool for me.
I'll give you that the dust collection would be nice but I'm not sure how much I'd use it if I had it so thats not really an issue for me.
I dont get into the EZ/Festool debate, its a waste of my time and others can do it better but there isnt any way that the Festool is providing better results in terms of quality of cut and preformance.
Doug
Doug,Mike, you and I sound like guys who are quite happy with the tools they use and that’s really all it’s about. I guess at this time the only way to really see which produced a “better†cut would be to do a side by side. I’m in Staten Island, you bring your setup and we’ll do the test ;-).As far as options go, all the Festools work together as a system so as far as EZ having more. . . well I guess that’s just another debate. One of the best things I bought was their MFT 1080 I use it more then the rail and saw.Lastly I would hope that people go out and buy whatever tool they think will get them to where they need to be.
I think what most of us want to know is
whether or not the tools reviewed do
what we want them to do. The Festool,
no doubt, is a fine tool but the price
is steep. If the EZ is almost as good
or as good less the dust collection
or whatever that is ok, we just
want to know what each tool will do.
The savings in money may justify
the loss of one feature or another.
Some guys always go for the best,
some guys go for the best bang
for the buck and some go for whatever
will squeak them by.
We just want to make a choice based
on the facts.
I had no idea when I started looking
at guides that there was such a
nearly religious debate going on! :-)
Now you've done it ... you used the "r" word in the last sentence. Now the sysop will be moving this discussiion to the tavern with all the other controversial worded discussions. Never bring up politics or religion in a straight discussion. Oops, I used an anti-gay word ... another strike.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Good lord!...ooops. On 'another list' Gary Katz closed
the thread on the Festool v. EZ war! Im still
amazed things get so heated. Which of course
makes it harder to make a decision. I mean
you are afraid to take the thing out in daylight....
I think it just comes down to money. If cost was the same, I think everyone here would take a Festool. But considering the price disparity, what's the next best choice? I think it's interesting that no one is taking the sides of any of the other devices.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
FWIW Eddie, before I bought my first SmartGuide, I used the Festool and wasn't impressed (other than the DC). The rails had too much flex, the saw had to be used in plunge mode, the edge guides were a headache to replace when worn and it only had antisplintering on one side (since "rememedied", even though the Festool diehards swore up and down it had no such problem ;) ). I thought it was grossly overpriced for what it delivered.
I was thissssss close to buying a panel saw for my shop when I stumbled over Dino's Ebay site and ordered it on a whim. I was ready to drop 1200 on a panel saw, and was going to forgo the portability. With the SmartGuide, I had both the panel saw's ease for sheet goods and portability. Now I have two (three? I forget) SmartGuide setups, the SmartTable, and the SmartRouter kit...
PaulB
I purchased my Festool saw and rail system to do one thing, handle cutting sheet goods in the field. Here is what I had to do to do this.
I laid my 55" & 106" guide rails on a piece of plywood.
I took my TS 55 saw out of its Systainer and placed it on the rail I adjusted the saw there was no slope side to side in the rail andthe saw slid like it was on ball bearings. I set the depth of cut to about 10mm and set the speed control to 3. Push the switch and plunged the saw into the rubber of the guide rail and run the saw the length of the rail. I was now ready to cut.
The TS 55 Includes:
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# (1) 55" guide rail (491498)
# (1) 48-tooth carbide blade (491952)
# (1) Limit stop FS/2 (491582)
# (1) Plastic splinterguard (pack of 5 available as 491473)
# In Systainer 4 (445597)
Cost $430.00
The SGS-50
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Cost $134.98
New Saw $100.00
Good Blade $50.00Total cost about $300.00
Does Festool offer special pricing sales?
I know that EZ offers many discounts and promo features so the actual pricing is much less then what gets listed as retail.
And a solo 50" or 55" rail just isn't going to make it in a 4x8 world so we all might as well disperse of that shorty as the sole rail provision unless someone is exclusively doing cabinet work.
Do you have a better display photo of the separate Festool components available for that price which you could post?
Thanks
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Tell me how to get a less-than-retail price for the EZ.
be sitting here with credit card in hand, ready to dial ...
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
go to the saw site mentioned with the icons that didn't link earlier in this thread and roam the site there.
I'd post the link but I don't have it available.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I'm seeing the 100" package for $190 and I don't see anything about a recon saw. Am I missing the secret password?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Ed, go to the EZ Smart site and request a visit with Dino.
He takes care of his Breaktime buddies.
You know how hard it is to get someone to give the info on what they make an hour (on this board).
Well, you'll not have much luck on getting the info on the deals we get from our pals neither. You need to make contact and let Dino know your interest.
Best of luck.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Haven't been over there in a while to know what is going on. I'd just noticed the periodic specials off and on before.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Edited 10/11/2006 7:16 pm ET by rez
"Tell me how to get a less-than-retail price for the EZ."
He told me there ws a Breaktime discount when we were at Tipifest. But I don't know how much that is.
Opportunity is when luck and preparation come together.
call and talk to dino , he has stated at SMC that folks should call and deal .732.259.9984 Tel. I got a "deal" on mine by getting it on ebay for the opening bid and applying a 20% off coupon I had from ebay .
rez,
I do have a picture because I just took one ;-)
View Image You can click the image for a larger view.
Do you have one with the various components separated similar to the ez photo?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Rez,You just noticed one of the more fundamental differences between the two systems, the part list. You take it out of the systainer adjust it on the rail and cut. Try that with the EZ.
Joe,
Generally you've been making intelligent arguments, but you're walking on a fine line now. That's exactly what I do with my SmartGuide... except I don't have to hold my saw down for the entire cut ;)
PaulB
Festool offers special prices on packages.
Demo, discontinue and used tools.
Look for Bob Marino.
Sales agent from NJ.
David
Joe,
Your enthusiasm for Festool is admirable.
I also own a Festool saw and MFT. I've tried other saws that I like much better. In fact, one of my employees refers to the Festool saw as "the ball less wonder".
Something has always puzzled me. I've been using EZ Smart for just over a year and during that time I've heard numerous people talk about how great the Festool System is. During all of this time, Dino has had a standing challenge for anyone to do cuts that are better and quicker than the EZ Smart. It is simple- TAKE THE CHALLENGE - BEAT THE EZ - POCKET $5,000. Why has no Festool owner taken that challenge? Would you like to be the first? I think it is time for the Festool crowd to accept the challenge or cease their comments about the superiority of Festool. (as I understand it you live fairly close to Dino)
Burt
P. S. We'll let the folks from "Breaktime" make a cut list.
Edited 10/11/2006 7:14 pm ET by Burts
Oh, well. I'm not really surprised that Joe didn't take the challenge. Dino has offered it for years and no one from Festool has taken it. You think that someone from Festool would be interested in making $5,000.
Mike, you and I sound like guys who are quite happy with the tools they use and that’s really all it’s about
Joe, I think that sums it up best!
I worked down in Austin TX in a shop that built some of the finest cabinetry in the city. There were Harbor Freight tools all over the place, cheap azzed dust collector for the wide belt, none for any other tool, the list goes on and on, but the bottom line is we were producing some damn nice cabinetry with some pretty shiddy tools.
I'm a believer that its not the tool that makes great cabinetry, obviously a good tool makes it easier but theres no substitute for skilz!
When I was in college there was a kid sitting next to me durring a calc test, he had one of those fancy HP calculators, only problem was, he didnt know how to use the damn thing, frustrating as hell watching him pushing buttons and not getting the answers that he was looking for. It was so anoying that I had to take the thing away from him so he wouldnt drive me nuts. (I told this story on here a while back and B.Walker gave me shid for being so hostile so please, I've already heard the lecture! :) )
I'm pretty sure that if you and I traded our respective tools we would probably still get the same results. And that is what its all about.
Doug
"I'm pretty sure that if you and I traded our respective tools we would probably still get the same results. And that is what its all about."That's the most on-point statement I've read in this entire thread...
My understanding is that the blade left saws will not fully work with the EZ system. You got your's to work ok? Do you lack some functionality?I was using a DeWalt with mine, but it got stolen when the garage door got left open, so I sprung for a new blade right PC with brake. Got to set it up soon.
Haven't had a chance to try it out yet, and Dino is not sending the sticky tape anymore, just bolts.
The new base also has sideways adjusting screws, but they look kinda like an afterthought,not placed or thought out real well, and using a Lblade saw, the anti chip insert in the base is now in the back, not on the up cut side of the blade, kinda odd.
I might get to it this weekend, and futz with it some, as I also use the router to make some arches for a trellis outta trex...the router straight guide is pretty cool, if I can pivot it, I'll leave it attached to the router for good, and use that as an excuse to get another router.
I have had this stuff for too long and have not really gone thru the paces yet, just one thing after another that needs to be done first.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
I put mine on with screws and T-nuts, so it could be taken off. Putting it back on would be a little more difficult since I do it with a dial indicator clamped to the rail to get both saws to match and not re-cut the edge of the guide piece. I have the 7 1/4" PC and 10" Makita with bases on them.
You can leave the base on and use the saw without any of the rest of the system. The only time you'd really need to take it off is to get the last 3/8" of depth of cut. The issue doesn't arise all that often.
I also have a Mag 77 worm, and an old beater Sears sidewinder without the bases, so the Makita is the only one I might think about using without the base.
-- J.S.
You can buy a nice reconditioned Bosch CS20 from Amazon (through CPO Bosch) for $99 with full factory warranty. After taxes, that's probably more like $60.EZ Smart is intended to save time - which we all know is money - so time wasted removing the base and changing from 40T to 24T blade a couple of times, then re-mounting and re-aligning, probably equals the cost of that dedicated saw. Plus, I wouldn't want to vouch for the accuracy of blade angle on a saw that's also used for framing. One drop from a height can knock the base shoe out of alignment a couple of degrees.BruceT
to have the smartbase on one minute and to use it for framing the next minute is not really the go. everyone that has this system has a dedicated saw I suspect.
i have and use this system. (it's good, but it's not the miricle some people make it out to be.)
Edited 10/10/2006 10:37 am ET by Richard1
By EX I'm thinking you meant EZ?
On the EZ I thought the same then decided to dedicate my PC to it. Now I wish I had a brake on the saw as once you get rollin' on the thing the pieces cut so easily you hate to stand there waiting for the saw to stop.
There are two saw inserts that snap and unsnap as you slide them into the saw. On for use on the rail and one for normal use.
I got it originally just to stop marking over and drawing a line for a straight edge and screwing it down so it wouldn't move when cutting 8ft lengths, forgetting all the attachments.
Now the weight of the EZ rail is enough to hold it in place and it's just a matter of putting the rail on your two marks and running the saw. Almost makes me giggle at the simplicity of it.
Now if I'd just take the time to figger out the Repeater...
be an explorer
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Ok jross that's a fair answer. But to be honest it looks tacky. Unprofessional.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I was disappointed in the write up. It starts with "Can a Circular-Saw Edge Guide Replace Your Tablesaw?" Then in small print, "These systems offer a safe, precise way to cut sheet goods"
The EZ guide comes closer to replacing my jobsite tablesaw than a Festool would. I can straight edge wood. I can rip 8' long wood to make molding on jobsite with only the basic 100" kit.
On the jobsite I can take a 8' long piece of wood 5 1/2" wide and mark lines to taper both sides to 4 1/2" to replace shattered piece in 100 year old pocket doors. Again basic 100" kit.
The Festool is a good saw. But as a one woman company I disagree with the comment on page 97 " If you regularly need to break down sheet good, though, their(festool?) proper competition is probably portable tablesaws." The whole idea of the article is "Can a Circular-Saw Edge Guide Replace Your Tablesaw?" and then in the side bar of the "Winner" we find out that only the "competition is probably portable tabesaws(...), which after you've bought the extension and outfeed tables you'll need for cutting sheet goods--can easily cost a lot more(than Festool?)."
The competition for Festool is EZ guide. The other guides listed--I would make a shooting board from scrap before getting one.
If all we are doing is breaking up sheet goods--or making bookcases,cabinets or boxes with our guides, why should I invest in one or the other?
I have read better point by point discussion on the merits of EZ guide vs. Festool in the heated debates in on-line forums.
Before I go to the store, I check on-line forums for information on tools. Even with the name calling in the EZ-Festool debate I was able weight the features of these two systems. For the jobs I do, I spent less money and went with EZ. But there are a couple features on the Festool that I still might want. In the future I'll have to weight the cost of festool with how much it can earn me for the job. If it can make me more money, then I'll buy it. That's what I do with my tools--make money.
They are both good guides. I wish Fine Homebuilding had been able to show the pro's and con's of each without fueling the childish debates about mine is better(bigger?) than yours.
Marion did a great job in her evaluation of this article so I'd like to just add a couple of points:
1. The Author liked the stickness of the festool friction strips and totally ignored the EZ Smart tape that performs the same function.
2. The object of the article was suppose to be to compare a guide to a table saw. The author ignored the EZ repeaters - function like a table saw fence for repeat cuts- and the EZ Smart clamping system - allows a rail system to do very narrow rips - something most rails can't do. These two capabilities give the EZ the capability to replace a table saw. In fact, I've seen more than one post from Festool owners who are hoping that some day these will be available for the Festool rails.
Edited 10/11/2006 11:51 pm ET by Burts
Sounds like the author of the article wasnt capable of doing the article.Memphest 2006
November 18th
Jeeeze, whats new!
And why are you up so late?
Doug
That time , I went to bed after supper and woke up .
tIM
One reason might be that the "sticky tape" for the EZ has to be applied where as the Festool rails have the fiction tape already applied. Also, from the EZ website "
The Downfalls: When processing narrow stock with the smart clamps, or smart clamping system, the Non-Skid tape will not allow the easy movement and precise placement of the narrow strips. We suggest having an extra set of EAC-1 antichip inserts in order to get the benefit of non-skid, and regular edges. If and when, your regular edges get worn, don't throw them out. Give them new life by applying the non-skid tape. If you're using the EZ Smart for flooring applications then you only need the EAC-1 with the NST (antichip edges with non skid tape)"
Of course, the limitations of the friction tape apply to Festool as well... the difference is that when clamps are needed the SmartClamps are much more versatile ;)
Just trying to keep the apples with the apples...
Still looking for your reply to the challenge in post 65 of this thread.
Other then just making a statement like that, do you have any documention that says that? I don't. Can you point to any online document that says that?
Can you scan and post any document that says that?
Can you get a Festool Dealer or Rep to say that?If you can't then don't say it.
Edited 10/12/2006 9:53 am ET by Joe
If you all are happy with the system that you own, then why do you care what anybody else has?
This is a futile battle - there is no point in trying to convince somebody that one is better than the other.
Enough is enough - To each his own.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
this whole "debate" reminds me of Andy E's tag line
I coudn't agree more Justin! And as long as no one makes inaccurate comments (especially as they likely haven't used both systems), I for one am perfectly happy to live and let live ;)
Trying to convince folks that you made the right decision.
Also trying to sway shoppers to make the same choice.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
maybe trying to convince yourself (the general "yourself", not you, specifically) that you made the right decision??? why does it matter if anyone thinks you made the right decision?
here's what I hear:
both systems are good
both systems will work
God made each of us unique, so we shouldn't be surprised that one size doesn't fit all
to each his own, eh Justin?
Right on, Justin.
Good heavens, people, who gives a sh!t??? It's just tools already.
Dino's got a fine product and it deserves promotion, but this zealotry (on both sides, I must add) is just foolishness. It's a pointless debate. If someone has $$ they're probably gonna buy the Festool. If they don't they'll probably buy an EZ. And they'll all be happy, and they'll all get good cuts, so please, let it rest.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Sigh... "If they don't they'll probably buy an EZ"
JJ, I gotta tell you I hear that all the time and it drives me up the wall. I (and I suspect manyyyyy of the EZ users) bought mine because (IMHO of course) it was the best. I was prepared to spend much more than either the Festool or the SmartGuide...
Don't reduce "us" to being bargain hunters and I won't reduce Festool buyers to dilettantes ;)
PaulB
Paul, I am one of us. I'm not reducing anyone. I've said it before, I have the EZ and I like it but I don't see that it's the cure for all things wood-butchering. Maybe it's my inexperience with it.
I still think that people like you are more of a minority (meaning cost was not the object). True, the EZ is adaptable to any tool you currently own and it appears-to my uneducated eyes, anyhow-to be more flexible. But I suspect that if the Festool saw didn't cost more than my monthly mortgage payment then more people would opt for that over the EZ-simple economics.
Lost in all this is the fact that Festool makes some sanders and such that are apparently the cat's meow. I know that the saw is usually the thing discussed but I never hear any arguing about the sanders.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Don't get me started on their sanders!
;)
Paul,
I couldn't agree more. I have added a Hilti 267E to my EZ Setup and my guess is that it would be close to the same money as the festool. (I paid about $330 for the Hilti.) I went for the best quality guide system - not the cheapest or one to impress others.
Burt
Amen.
Let's move to a topic of true importance in order to teach the knuckle-draggers how much better a worm drive is, compared to a sidewinder.
Besides...with my wormdrive I'll cut straighter and faster than either the Festool or the EZ. (No sticky tape needed!)
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
EGGFREAKINGXACTLY! Thanks for posting that.
The funniest thing about this tagline is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late for you to stop reading it.
http://www.hay98.com/
you young kids are so naive!
shhhhhhh...
be better than the tavern...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Yea I guess since I dont go to the tav this is as good as it gets!
Doug
There's got to be a used unit roaming around out there gathering dust somewhere. Really don't want to put the money out on a new one seeing the amount of use it will get. Or do I?
ya know Doug, the tavern can be a lot of fun if you just put all the polijive on ignore.
You can usually get a pretty good idea of the content of a post by the title.
But then again you have to see the thread before you can ignore it and if yer a type A aggressive personality you wouldn't be able to resist jumping in.
'Course if you put just a couple certain folk on ignore you wont have to read about 75% of the polijive's first posts anyhow.
IMERC's been posting girlfriend pics of his three spandex librarians. See what you've been missing?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Edited 10/12/2006 11:25 pm ET by rez
well a least they have some class compared to some others..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
'Course if you put just a couple certain folk on ignore you wont have to read about 75% of the polijive's first posts anyhow.
IMERC's been posting girlfriend pics of his three spandex librarians. See what you've been missing?
Two very valuable reasons for reconsideration!
but what if the off chance that one of those guys that I have on ignore offers up something of value................oh hell, who am I kidding, thats not going to happen. I'll have to rethink my thinking.
But then again you have to see the thread before you can ignore it and if yer a type A aggressive personality you wouldn't be able to resist jumping in.
thats my problem, I just have to remember that picture and caption that Boss Hog posted about 4 or 5 years ago.
BTW, keep me posted on the search for the 10" saw, like you I dont like paying retail, especially for something that I wont use all that much. Have to keep a closer eye on ebay.
I'm not getting one of those monster 14" makitas, hell that thing scares me!
Doug
ah grasshopper, clicking little icon permits viewing of just that one post.
be a walkingstick not a preyingmantis
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I'm not sure what you're referring to Joe. The friction tape? Well, one of the differences between Dino and Festool is that Dino doesn't try to hide issues but rather encourages his users to address them as a means to improve his products. (I do note no lack of criticism in the Festool Users Group though...)
Unless Festool uses some magic pixie glue on their anti slip tape (which they didn't when I used their guide ;) ) I can only assume that the laws of physics apply to them as well...perhaps I'm mistaken? But then they wouldn't need to offer their "clamps" would they?
PaulB
Question for Joe on the vac part of the Festool:
how often do you need to change the bag, looks
like they arent cheap.
Im in the market for either the Festool or the EZ
I guess it boils down to how often you use them
and WHERE you use them. If you do a lot of
indoor work the dust collection makes it worth it
I suppose.
You can re-use the bags and save?
Visit the Festool owners group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FestoolOwnersGroup/
David.
See the attached file to get a view of how everyone else sees your post when you link to those pictures.
What's anyone expect in a discussion? Nothing wrong with this debate.
A gentlemenly agreement to disagree on various points and that is how we learn.
No name calling or degratory remarks present.
This is a good thread exchanging ideas. What do you want?
be gimmie a break
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.
Forrest - makin' magic every day
Yes. yes, and yes.
Dino GAVE me the whole shebang, to advertise and demonstrate..ok, I did pay him about 75% of the cost, and bought more stuff, but the point is..he cares.
That right there is the difference betwix him and a manufacturer that is selling a product to the masses blindly.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
This does seem like a fairly good discussion on saw and rail systems and I hope it can stay that way.
I entered this discussion because I own a Festool system and I can ONLY give first hand info about it
and NOT the EZ system. Things that would be good to discuss would be how long does the"system" take to set up "out of the box"?
Is the set up permanent?
How many components to the system are there?
Does the manufacture make all the components or are there "outside sources"?
How long does it take to change over from operations?
How many different operations can the system do?
How safe is the system while performing those operations?
What's the total cost of the complete system?
How is the customer service?I'm sure there are more but for a prospective buyer these would seem to be important.Edited 10/12/2006 4:42 pm ET by Joe
Edited 10/12/2006 4:43 pm ET by Joe
I think your first item ... time out of the box ... is not really an issue. But the second one certainly is.
Change over time would be important.
You left out: time to mark the cut line and align the tool. I say that because I would suspect that those tools that do not align directly with the cut line would be at a disadvantage.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Like I said FE I'm sure there would be others ;-)With my Festool it takes about 10 seconds to mark and align a random measurement using a 55" guide rail. Maybe twice that using the 106" rail.
Joe, does the Festool rip 2x lumber on a single pass?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
The smaller ATF 55 will cut 1 15/16" striaght and 1 7/16" at 45 degrees.
So it will rip a 2x straight but not quite on a bevel.
ya, if I'd known how great a tool a guide system is I would have gotten a 6" saw right off the bat.
be 60 oak doors at 1 3/4" thick:o)
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40420
http://www.logosolusa.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1416/an/0/page/0
View Image
Edited 10/12/2006 9:26 pm ET by davidwood
Edited 10/12/2006 9:37 pm ET by davidwood
yer killing me here, and in sandals no less.
be I do not want a BigFoot. I do not want a BigFoot. I do not want a BigFoot. I do not want a BigF....
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
go ahead...
say it all you want..
there's ain't a body here that'll believe that fer a heartbeat...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
rez
See if you can get a discount for 2 of them when your looking to buy, I think I'm going to need one myself!
I've been trying to find a 8 1/2" or 10" saw used but so far no luck. I do think the day will come that I'll need one.
Doug
This one of the VERY big differences. When you are doing repeat cuts with the EZ, there is no marking. Just set the repeaters - kind of like setting a table saw fence and cut as many as you like. That is one big thing that drew me to the EZ. With Festool you measure each cut - With EZ you set fence and cut as many as you wish.
How often does that come in handy?
Not trying to be argumentative, For what I've used my Festool saw for I haven't encountered a lot of times where cutting the same over and over has come up.
What is the max depth of the repeaters? How wide can they be set for?
Well, I guess that depends on what you are doing.
I personally run a small woodworking shop and we do a lot of custom cabinets. Set the length of the uprights - wall - base- etc, and cut what you need. Set the repeater again and rip off the individual pieces. Each wall cabinet has matching fixed top and bottom shelves. Each wall cabinet also 3 matching adjustable shelves.
Just did a quick check on the cut list for the latest kitchen. 1 piece we needed 15 identical pieces. Another 14 pieces, 3 parts - 6 pieces each, and numerous parts at 4 or less per piece.
The use of the repeaters doesn't effect the depth of cut.
Basic width of cut is 26" but that can easily be increased to 52"(I use the wider setup a good bit).
Burt
Depth of Cut with the EZ Depends on the saw you are using. Most 7 1/4" saws are about 1 3/8". The Hilti 267e is a little over 1 1/2" (don't remember the specific depth), the big Makita is 6" (Yes, I meant 6").
This is a real strength of the EZ. You can buy a saw to make the cut you need.