I just registered and this is my first post. I am restoring a 2-flat in Chicago and we have hand stripped most of the woodwork in the first floor where we live. The 2nd floor is a rental right now and we are planning to rehab it this spring. We want to pull all the original trim out, have it dip stripped, and then put it back. We just don’t have the time to strip it all ourselves in such a short time. We plan to stain and shellac the wood ourselves though to save $.
I am wondering if anyone else has used this method for removing paint and what kind of results they got. Someone on my blog mentioned that their neighbor had their trim dipped and it didn’t look that great but maybe it was the finishing that wasn’t good.
Also, we got quotes of $1-$3/linear foor for dipping and $4-$8/linear foot for hand stripping BTW. Any experience with this method?
Replies
Jocelyn, 'dip stripped' is a nebulous term - I had a buddy that ran a strip shop for a few years (actually three friends over the course of 20 years, now that I think about it) - -
anyway, there were two basic processes - the 'cold tank' and the 'hot tank' - the cold tank was methylene chloride which generally was pretty friendly to the wood, if less so to the humans -
the hot tank was a lye solution in a big tank with a gas burner under it, the hotter it is, the better it works (generally) - this was the prefered method, being cheaper than coldtanking - heat the solution up, pull the lids off, immerse the object (long pieces, like trim, would have one end immersed and then the other if they wouldn't fit fully in the tank) - use scrub brushes to work the surface, then pull the object out, run it thru and neutralizing rinse, and use high pressure water to rinse/blast off any remain finish - think 'witches brew' with floating plinth blocks -
this process can leave wood real fuzzy depending on how tough the finishes are - but it's 'cheap' -
so, what's your question?
I guess my question is, "will the wood look good or be damaged by the process?" You alluded to the fact that the heated process would be more likely to do damage. If the cold process is safe, I'd better just try and get it done that way. Thank you.
"will the wood look good or be damaged by the process?"
it depends...if there is an intact clear coat - shellac or varnish - between the wood and the paint, the hot tank process would be quick and painless - we are talking about trim that has a couple of lifetimes of character anyway - I'd suggest you take a representative piece from a discrete location and let the stripper see what he can do with it -
the cold process uses the same chem as is in most of the 'on the shelf' strippers from the hardware - strippers buy it in 55 gallon drums, but my experience is that the cold tank is pretty small for long pieces of trim - but your person may be set up differently -
there may have been some advances since my experiences of several years ago - I watched a crew strip a brick house of paint this past summer, using some product that was covered with a wrap that remained on for a few days - interesting, but I never stopped to find out the details -
good luck with your project -
"there's enough for everyone"
first concern is what kind of finish are you trying to remove - clear (varnish/shellac/poly?) or paint (oil based possibly containing lead, non lead oil or latex or all of the above?) if it's paint, how many coatsnext is how detailed is the trim? are there scrapers available to match the profiles?the lye/hot tank method is what is usually used for stripping metal - it can be used on wood but will cause discoloration, wood softening and may be a problem with paint finish later (lye is a 'base' and needs to be neutralized by an acid - like vinegar -aka acetic acid) - been there, done that, not recommendedthe "cold" method requires other chemicals and may call for neutralizing - if you're going this route, be sure to get someone who does "furniture" grade strippingthere are many other ways to strip finishes - I've got a "silent paint remover" which can take off oil based paint fairly easily - basically a infra-red heat lamp.I've also used "peel away" - a caustic (like lye/oven cleaner) with a plastic film to keep it moist for about 24 hrs, then carefully pulling it away to remove layers of paint - like the tank, needs to be neutralized but may better than hot tankthere's some other chemicals that work on breaking the connection between the finish and the surface - check out This Old House site and check out the Manchester project -one last thing - is the trim you're trying to save worth doing or is it still available?
sometimes it's better to replace than strip and repaint
hope this helps
Jocelyn
Someone else mentioned it but its worth repeating, take one or two pieces off and have them striped, see what they look like and if its worth continuing with. It might even make sense to try a couple different stripper places.
You said that your plans are to shellac it, if the wood was originally painted you will never strip it clean. I've striped somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred pieces of furniture and paint on raw wood does not come out.
Do you have any idea what kind of wood your dealing with? That may have some bearing on whether or not it was painted or varnished/shellaced.
Doug
These are all good replies and I concurr. Stripping wood was the first thing I did for three years when I came into the trades. I had to stop because of the exposure to chemicals, plus it's not very fun. It is great however when you first see the beauty of the wood emerge underneath all the paint or old finish that you are removing.
I would definately stay away from the hot dipping process as it generally distorts and very much discolors the wood. Also if you hot dip any items that have glued up joints like a chair or a small table, the chemicals will destroy the glue in the joints and the items often fall apart right in the tank. Hot dipping also tends to suck oils out of the wood and this results in fiber separation and cracking. Better to leave the hot dipping for the steel and iron products like old detailed cast iron radiators.
If the moulding has paint on it and you want to put a colored or clear finish on, you may have a problem because like Firedude said, paint on raw wood is very difficult to remove, especially if it's old milk paint or refractory paint. Those two paints will soften with the use of amonia, the wood (depending on the type) will darken with amonia use however. There's generally a haze left behind that needs further soaking and scrubbing with steel wool.
If the wood moulding has an origional coat of shellac on it under the present paint which is often the case, then the paint will slide right off no problem using the cold dip process or even denatured alcohol will soak through the paint and loosen the shellac.
If the moulding has a lot of detail and has been origionally painted, there will most probably be paint left in the crevaces of the detail unless the person who is doing the stripping can guarantee an absolute clean piece. I would ask them that. If you can't get all the paint out of the crevaces and still want your shellac finish, then you should stain the wood and color in the paint left behind.
All this said, I would still recommend taking it to be cold dipped because the process of doing it yourself (especially detailed stuff) can be a nightmare. Good luck.
wow- thank you everyone. To answer a few of the questions, the wood is oak and originally it was shellaced. I know this because I have stripped numerous boards various ways: with a heat gun, SPR, & strippers (outdoors in a well-ventilated area). All the boards have about 6-7 layers of paint on them.
I had thought to have tests done and agree that is the best route to go. It sounds like the cold process will work best and is safest (for the wood anyway). But if the lye/hot is done carefully, it might be okay too. First thing we'll do is have tests done and then decide if replacing the wood is in order.
The molding is pretty basic- BUT it is a lovely straight grain and I hate to toss solid wood. I just like the idea also of having the original trimwork in the house. Thanks again for all the comments- I am going to go reread them now.
Edited 11/5/2005 12:49 pm ET by JocelynM
Edited 11/5/2005 12:53 pm ET by JocelynM
you might want to try the "silent paint remover" - the infra-red heat lamp - I found it very effective for removing multiple layers of paint and given the base of shellac, you might be able to get the paint off without "staining" the oak with the paint - if you can use a plastic scraper, you minimize damage to the oak - the "peel away" manufacturer (Dumont chemical?) has some other products that might work for you too.the stuff from TOH worked by breaking the bond between the paint and the material again, having a base of shellac might make it the way to go - spray on, scrap off (if soft enough, wipe it off)the hot tank/lye is definately not the way to go - you really can't control it, you're basically putting the piece in a tank and letting it "soak" - and the oak will be discolored/damaged by the process - try tossing in a scrap piece and you'll see the result
Edited 11/5/2005 3:54 pm ET by firedude
...restoring a 2-flat ...
I'm a country boy and not familiar with the nature of a '2-flat' - could you describe?
I also wonder if you have double checked wood species - I have seen numerous cases (in houses) where the downstairs got the hardwood trim and the upstairs had a 'lesser' wood - pine or such -
Our building was built around 1910. You usually find 2-flats (or 3-flats) in urban areas- plenty here in Chicago. Basically, it's a 2 unit building- one atop another. They are usually constructed of brick or stone. Some are more grand than others.
If you want to see a picture, I have one on my blog: http://www.chicago2-flat.blogspot.com
We should probably double check the wood, but I am pretty certain it's oak up there too.
Edited 11/5/2005 8:56 pm ET by JocelynM
I've found that pulling that old trim can be tricky. The wood can splinter or break and sometimes large amounts of plaster can come with it. It can be done but take lots of care.
Bob Vila did a show from Chicago where he re-did a building similar to yours.
It had a carriage house out back and he re-did it as well.
I taped it because it had some ideas that I really liked, and wanted to steal!
Doug
I've had doors and woodwork stripped by a furniture shop with a tank (not sure what kind) and the wood came back fuzzy, needing sanding. This would have been a real PITA if there had been profiled moldings and we wanted them to look new. We were happy enough with the results and they had a lot of 'character'.... whether or not you like character is a personal thing.
For $3 per LF you're probably close to the cost of new moldings run to pattern. For $4-8 you definitely are. Add to that the difficulty of removing the existing without cracking it and you're in for a major project. I'm not saying you want to use new, just mentioning it as a point of reference for cost.
took a quick look at your site - two family or two decker around here - the coloring on the door hardware is the intended finish - just clean it, don't try to "polish" it, you'll remove it if you want it remove the trim: use a razor knife to cut "gently" through the finish where it meets the surface you're removing the trim from, use a flat bar with a piece of thin plywood to protect the surface and pry off the trim, if it comes off easily, pry away - if you're having trouble, sawzall with a thin demo/metal cutting blade to cut the nails - any nails left in the trim, pull from the back side to prevent damaging the face side - be sure to mark where the trim comes from - they all tend to look alike after a whilestripping off the paint/finish with whatever method seems to be working for youlooked like your trim is flat stock, so replacing it might be more cost effective - seems wasteful with solid wood but when you start figuring your time and the other potential hazard of the finishes, gets cheap real fast