I need a spigot at the chicken shed, can I just trench and lay in pex? I will add a backflow preventer to isolate from the main house supply. Total distance 50′ or so. Tired already of mowing over a garden hose.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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“If Brains was lard, you couldn’t grease much of a pan”
Jed Clampitt
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I don't see why not, as long as none of it is exposed to UV. However, I usually use black poly pipe for this sort of thing 'cause its cheaper.
Scott.
pex will absorb contaminits that are in the ground through pipe into water
Hmmm. Not for human consumption, and unsure what would be a contaminant in my yard, but point taken.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Yer kidding, right?
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
thats what a rep told me and sure you eat the plants but do use pestisides and petrolem based fertilisers?
Nope. we're all organic, or nearly so. I think fertilizing lawns is one of the most stupid things a person could do, I mean, who LIKES mowing grass?
This is for watering the chickens, and anything beats a garden hose laying across the yard, and I didn't think burying IT was a good idea. But then again..why not?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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penatation through pipe , you do eat the chickens right or at least there eggs
Ok WHAT is gonna penetrate the pex? Dirt? I have polyethlene from the city water to my house, where I switch to copper, which is then going to a garden hose laying in the grass.
You think buried pex is more likely to be contaminated?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Put some type of sleeve around it where goes through the block.
You be good to go.
If you're worried about leaching contaminates like, well, dog pee? ;-), mebbee PEX-AL-PEX which has a metalic barrier built in. Works in heating systems to keep oxygen out, so maybe it'll keep other stuff at bay as well.
Don't want the chickens to start organizing protests, or anything!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Edit: Glad to hear the back's on the mend.
Edited 5/4/2009 7:41 am ET by MikeHennessy
That is a pretty incredible claim that no one here seems to have heard before. It may be true, but the burden is on you to get some more details if you want to pass this on as fact
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
I have 600' of 1" PEX potable water line burried. The installation cut sheet in the box did not mention anything about contamination from ground contact. Nor did the plumber that I helped put it in.
I replaced 300' of PE with two runs of PEX. Seperate runs for each building now, so if I have problems in one I don't have to shut down both buildings while I fix it.
Since I have rocky clay soil I covered the PEX with 6-8" of sand before back filling, and where I went under two different drive ways I sleaved it with 1 1/2" schdl. 40pvc and foamed the ends to keep the sand out of the sleave.
The expansion tool will give you a real work out on 1" PEX in 30 degree weather. (g)
It also lets the water leak out too. :~}
Irrigation pipe is going to be much cheaper if you have to buy it.
Edited 5/3/2009 10:17 am ET by RobWes
I was hoping for a quick plug and play with sharkbite, and for under 50' or so, I doubt the cost is that much different.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Then I'd go for it. I'd still be thinking about a vacuum breaker backflow device but that's me.
Bit of a hi-jack here. Anyone thought about Pex for air lines?
I know the other plastic water piping material can shatter under high pressure, would Pex ?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I don't think Pex would shatter, but I'd be leery of a fitting letting go and if the compressor is not killed, it'd run itself to death.
I trust copper sweated, would never use cpvc/pvc, and in my own shop just use lots of air hose.
Being as the comp. is 20' from where I sleep, I make sure to shut it off, I hate that 3 am wake up from a weeper.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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My brother used some left over He pex for air lines even has one burried to another building.
Setup is 3 years old no problems so far.
Thank You.
Just thinking out loud about the possibility here and thought I would ask.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
OK I'm late to the discussion.
My air lines are ran in pex.
Pex companies recommend testing with air during freezing conditions.
Pex will split when failure occurs, not fragment like pvc.
Dang, and I just let my plumber dumpster some 1/2" pex he had pulled out of another job.
Can't recall what he told me about why it wasn't good for potable water though, came out of a dentist clinic IIRC, some gas line maybe?.
I didn't think of the air line use till days later.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I doubt it was used for gasses.
Maybe it was heating, or if it had been left out in the sun.
If your air lines get sunlight you should cover them.
Right arm, I don't need no creepy stuff backing up into the house supply. What ever can breed in the seldom used line.
Funny, my main yard hydrant is in line with the house feed..I mean, it's before the house..no back flow or pressure reg ...so theoretically, IF the hose is hooked up, and the hydrant is open, hose water could feasably get into my potable water.
good thing we drink bottled , purified water.
Gonna have to do something about that, I s'pose.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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PEX is polyethylene, just a tougher version of it whose molecules are cross linked through one of several processes. I doubt it's any more likely to absorb soil contaminants than the million miles or so of direct bury poly pipe most of us get our domestic water through. PEX is also very forgiving of freezing, and because it can stretch a bit, it may also help to prevent metal pipe or fittings in the same system from splitting. Freezing doesn't split pipes where the ice is, usually. The ice forms in annular rings from the outside in, and actually can make a somewhat stronger spot. However, as that ice forms, it expands. Water, being un-compressible, transmits this expansion as hydraulic pressure elsewhere in the system, which ruptures at the weakest point. If there's someplace with enough flex to accommodate the expansion, the rupture can be avoided.Bottom line, don't worry. Water the chickens.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Once and Future King
Thanks buddy,
I sure hope I planted them deep enough. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Careful - go too deep, and the heat of the earth can melt PEX.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Once and Future King
No worries, I'm a lazy trencher. That and I got ledge under the topsoil at 6" deep.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Rather than extending pressurized plumbing out into my yard where I would have to worry about it, I ran 3" PVC septic (thinwall) pipes from my outside hosebibs to several parts of the garden and shed. If the garden hoses inside get old or freeze they are easy to replace.
To echo what Andy said about freezing... a local townhouse development (three stories, 100 units) was plumbed top to bottom with PEX and pumped up to 200 PSI for inspection. Delays happened, a sudden cold snap, -15 degrees. The whole thing froze, then thawed. Five years later...no problem.Scott.
The plumbers lay it right in the trench and cover it up. In fact I dug the last trench myself and watched them stickit in there.
It's true you don't want it in the sun.
If you're worried about contamination or whatnot, there's a blue plastic sleeve you can get for it that's used for when it goes right in the concrete.
The other poster is suggesting it's porous, then that it could take in contaminants from the soil? I don't think so.
I'd say go for it.
Cool. I thought so.
I'm passing thru the block foundation to tie into my copper, and then to the shed, so it'll never see sunlight.
I wasn't sure if black poly would sharkbite, hence the pex.
Maybe jej lives in Love canal, but here in Ky, I eat the plants I grow in the same soil (G).Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I am sure that PE won't work with Sharkbites.But the fitting "system" is almost as easy and much cheaper. They are barbed fitting. Heat up the end of the PE with a torch or hot air gun. Push it in and put a hose clamp on it.Where it terminates the crawlspace I would use a brass one to NPT. And 2 hose clamps. And the plastic ones & one hose clamp other places..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Will it freeze?
Ed
He doesn't have to worry about deap penetration of frost like you do. Look where he lives>G<
I think they changed code here to 18" to bottom of footing, it was 12" not too long ago. Ky, can surprise you, we had a week below 15 degrees last winter and zero is not uncommon.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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18" to bottom of footing,>>>>>>>>>>>>..
We have to go min. of 4'. Where he lives I figure it is the same.
I was trying to get him to read the profile, then he would know>G<
I know it can get cold where you live, look at the picts of the ice in the trees.
On the same subject, I was working in a subdivision in Syracuse and it was -10 that day, they were digging or rather had been digging for new electric service and at 18" there was no frost. I think the 4' is a bit mutch, unless the soil is soaking wet.
4' is nuts, I've never lived where I saw that deep frozen. I'd hate that.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I have never seen it that deep, but that is what they want.
If it gets that cold for that long, I let it drizzle to keep it from locking up. BTDT with goats and float bowls.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Wish I could say the same, we are in zone 2, guessing you are in zone 7-8. I have some under ground lines around the house,which are just great.
The chick house is to far for that, so I have a gutter on each side of the roof which drops into an old hot water tank cut in half length wise.City water....? can you have roosters also? Some towns have just the craziest rules.
City water is a fluke. The previous owners had it piped in, even tho' the "city" is over 10 miles away.
Roosters no problem, I have only one neighbor that is less than a 1/4 mile away. This is a small valley of older farmers and cattle. Pretty isolated and quiet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Sounds just perfect. Wow 10 mile water line,...Nice!
Water is pita here.
Whatever you do, don't forget the backflow preventer. I learned about it the hard way when the drip lines to the garden introduced sulfur-producing bacteria back into my well and house. I fixed it with chlorine, but it was quite the procedure. You can also get a fitting that will drain water away when you shut off the pressure. I have them on my PVC manifolds for the hoophouse...since i forgot and let them freeze and shatter last winter...and also for the PE pipe for my underground sprinklers. I imagine you can find or adapt something similar for PEX for the low point of the run. The stuff will freeze and thaw, but no sense tempting the Fates, who haven't smiled on you that kindly in the past. <G> Be burying pipe 6' deep here, if i don't want it to freeze solid...
On my list for shopping. First day, w/out deluge of rain in a week...need to get caught up on some stuff before I tackle this next chore. Having had Gihardia, I KNOW about water borne yuckkies. And I'm not going there again.
Them birds are growin like crazy, and need about 5-8 gallons a day, besides washing out the waterers and feeders. Gonna hang a gutter and collect rainwater into thier big waters as well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Backflow preventers or a double check valve (with silicone seals) are required for yard hydrants and stock watering system in KY. You can get a yard hydrant at any of the local farm supply stores around you. You will have to dig a deeper trench to put on in though. They are made to back drain when shut off
I dug mine holes about 42" deep and filled them with crushed stone about a foot, then set the bury hydrant on the stone. That gives a shallow dry well area for the hydrant to drain into after it is shut off. Set your check valves upstream of the bury hydrant about a foot or two, then fill the hole back in with the spoil. I cut the bottom out of a 5 gallon bucket, sliced it down one side and used it as a poor mans' sono tube to pour a slug of concrete around the hydrant pipe. That keeps it from wobbeling as you pull the handle either on or off. It also make a sort of splash block around it, so you don't wash a hole right under the spout.
I know all about that proceedure. I got a call from DW one day on my way home. The front hydrant froze ( the hose was still connected and open) and the cast head split. My F350 was parked right next to it and looked like an iceberg, covered in fine spray/ice.
I was able to hammer down the valve stem, and shut it off, then come spring, replace the whole thing.
Took a week for the truck to thaw out enough to open the door.
I haven't gave the spigot end a lot of thought yet, gotta see how the digging goes. That part of my yard is on ledge rock, and this whole scheme may not work as planned.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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That part of my yard is on ledge rock, and this whole scheme may not work as planned.
Amonium nitrate, kerosene,....
Make it as deep as you want. <G>
>> Be burying pipe 6' deep here, if i don't want it to freeze solid...And the Bitterroot Valley is fairly mild, for Montana. One winter ('63-'64, IIRC) they lost water mains eight feet down in Havre.
Yeah, we only got down to -19º last winter. <G>Did you used to live in Havre?
Edited 5/4/2009 3:50 pm by splintergroupie
>> Did you used to live in Havre?Glasgow '63 - '67
Glendive '67 - '70
Bozeman '70 - '72One of those winters in Glasgow (probably the same winter the water mains froze in Havre) we had 30 days in a row when the temperature never went above 0F. Didn't mean much to me. I was only nine when we moved there, and we lived half a block from the school. Years later I realized the people who probably had it toughest were the southern boys stationed at Glasgow AFB. They must have thought they had died and gone to hell.
Oh, man, i remember having to wear dresses to grade school and standing outside on the playground at lunch hour in Butte, not being able to feel my feet/legs/hands/ears/eyeballs. Used to get REALLY cold, back in the day on that side of the Divide...
"Oh, man, i remember having to wear dresses to grade school and standing outside on the playground at lunch hour in Butte..."Ha! That brought back memories from nearly 40 years ago of driving in winter from Silverton, CO to Montrose and marveling at the sight of schoolgirls walking home in boots and heavy jackets (presumably over dresses), mittens and caps and bare legs!How do you gals DO that???BruceT
Well, we were allowed to wear 'tights', but it had to be cold enough for dogs to stick to hydrants before the trade-off was worth it bec their center of gravity was somewhere around the arch of the foot. My parents always bought stuff that i would grow into when i turned 21, so all day long i'd be dueling with gravity not to have a pile of out-sized stockinette suddenly plunge to the floor and hobble me, sending me face-first into Billy Pascoe, the smartest and meanest kid in the class. I'd just bet he became a divorce attorney.
LOLMaybe there's some justice in this world and Billy Pascoe has become a DIVORCED attorney. :)
BruceT
I was in Minneapolis a couple years ago on New Years Eve. There was about 2" of slush on the ground, and all these hot women plowing through it in OPEN TOED SHOES.
Truely, they are the decendants of Vikings.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
>>>Whatever you do, don't forget the backflow preventer.Can you please remind me of the principle supporting this? From my pumphouse, I've got four underground branches, one for the house and three others going to yard hydrants. No backflow valves. Perhaps I've been lucky so far, but I don't like to push my luck unnecessarily.Thanks,Scott.
Here's the wiki link with illustrations and various types of backflow preventers:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backflow_prevention_deviceIn my case, i had those porous soaker hoses attached to my yard hydrant without a backflow preventer. When i started making enquiries at the plumbing supply store, they asked me if i had soaker hoses connected...seems they'd heard of several cases of the bacteria infiltrating the porous hose and making its way back to the well.I was told i was stuck with the problem once it started, but i did a very thorough flush with bleach, including all through the house and all the faucets, washing machine, etc. and got rid of it. With the backflow preventer, i have hoses hooked up continually and haven't had the problem again. A sturdy, brass one can be had for about $6 at Mr. Drip, where i buy my irrigation supplies: http://www.mrdrip.com/backflowpreventers.htm
Thanks; I'm onto it....Scott.
Do you pay the city? Without knowing the details normally a situation likes your you are on a rural water district. Although the RWD might buy water wholes for the city or vice versa..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
County Utilities District.
2 adults, and 4 dogs, 2 cats, 25 chickens....about 12 bucks a month. I forget how many CuFt that buys, but only one time did we exceed that and it was 2 bucks higher.
I have a well with no pump installed, that is *OK* and a spring that dried up last year for the first time in remembered history, along with many others. It was the primary source here since the house was built in 1850 ish. It's back good this year, I could also tap that, but its down hill from chickens.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Just don't let pex buried in concrete freeze. Nasty results.
shouldnt be a problem,as long as your pex and valve are below frost.i used to mow over the extension cord that ran the heater/lights to my coop.maybe put power in the trench too ,above the water of course!
Am gonna, one dig is all I'm after.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Pex & PE (black poly) will not leach chemicals into your supply, but if your ground has chemicals that can break down plastic the system will eventually fail, no matter if you use pex or poly or any other plastic pipe.