Does anyone have any experience with diy closed-cell foam insulation? Which manufacturer / supplier. Any lessons learned along the way?
Thanks ………………
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I'm interested too. I got a quote from an installer to spray 220 sq. ft. ina walk in attic conversion for $2.50 a sq. ft. Later he changes it to; "We have an $1800.00 minimum".
I'm thinking about doing it myself. There is a company called Tiger Foam tigerfoam.com that sells kits. I don't know how hard it is to spray. Anyone try this?
Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
I've used Tigerfoam to do the band joist in my basement as seen in a previous issue of FHB. The stuff is easy to work with, just follow the instructions that come with foam. It doesn't really smell, but it is extremely sticky. I would cover anything you don't want foam on. Kind of like painting in that regard. At a minimum I would wear disposable gloves and a long sleve shirt. I don't think you need to get a tyvek suit like they show on their website (unless you want to dress up for Halloween :-)). Also, if you order from tigerfoam, there is a coupon code of FHB for $25 off your order. The foam comes in 2 kit sizes. Order the bigger size! I'm sure you can find somewhere around your house to use it! It's a lot better bang for your buck! It is easy to spray and you can regulate the spray pretty easily. Tigerfoam does have info. on their website about figuring how much you need for walls and other applications. Hope that helps.
Thanks for sharing your experience .........
I have also used Tiger Foam. I think it is a good product. Not as sure it is as easy as implyed, but any one with a little practical knowledge can apply it. I would make sure you have a good respirator and goggles. The material is suppose to be harmless except the glue if you breath it in can mess up your lungs. I would also ventilate the area and would use a Tyvec suit. I think in total over the last 12 months I have used 12 sets of the large containers.
What kind of coverage are you getting out of a container, at what cost?
Is material available only by mail from manufacturer?
Thanks.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I got close to the figures the web site quoted. I got about 500 cubic feet per large set. Install the material in 2" layers let it set for a few seconds while working in another bay then come back and put another layer on. Don't try to fill each bay all at once. To totally fill a bay you will over spray a little and come back the next day and saw the excess off. Given that if you are needing to fill 220 cubic feet figure a little more foam than that. Shake the containers before you use them. This is in the instructions. Just follow the instructions.
Appreciate the response.
I'm hopefully going to start on our home before winter gets here. It's late 1800's, single board siding, and partly single layer floors over a crawl space. I've got other oldie's to deal with too. Foam has moved higher on my list of insulators under the circumstances and tiger is one of the better known and easier to get. (We are in the country and would likely pay two hours travel to get somebody from a bigger metropolitan area to come around unless I can do something myself. )
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
According to their site info, the kits are based on board feet and sell for about $1/bd ft. I was surprised by the cost compared with fiberglass. It also seems to expand less than what I have seen on TV, although this is consumer stuff, not contractor. Anyone have experience filling between joists in an attic? I'm thinking about removing the old loose cellulose (built in '46) and putting the batts back on top. From the looks of the kits, I'd be looking at four 600 bd ft kits to get 3" and it would total about $2500.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You got 500 CUBIC feet? The site shows that the large kit is good for 600 BOARD feet. Is this the same product?http://www.tigerfoam.com/products.php
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You are correct. For some reason the figure 500 stuck in my head. I got 50 cubic feet per large set. I was doing walls, joist ends, a small cathedral ceiling with no space above it, and around a heat run in a crawl space. In the ceiling areas where I had more room I used loose fill cellulose. Jay
The mixing of the two compounds occurs in the tip. The kits come with extra tips that you will need. The Vaseline goes on before the tip is attached so it can be taken off and replaced easily. I used one set of containers about half way, closed the cock valves on the tanks, bled off the little pressure in the lines removed the tip and taped the two openings on the exit side of the gun. Did not remove the hoses from the tanks. About a month and half later I put a new tip on the gun opened the cocks on the tanks and had no issues continuing to use the material.
I figured the Vaseline was to keep the components from clogging the tips and have used an adhesive called Plexus, that comes in a dual tube applicator and mixes in a zig-zag tip. That stuff mixes so hot that if the tip is tossed into a container with anything flammable, it will ignite so we tossed them on the concrete floor of the shop. Putting it in a bucket of water works, too. I have watched home improvement shows and when they sprayed, the foam expanded really fast and steam is visibly being released. I would have to assume that's why consumers can't get the same formulation but I'd still like to be able to fill the joist spaces, instead of layer after layer. That would be more expensive than I want to go.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Am curious how rodent resistant these foams are. I have a crawl space in a cabin I would like to insulate, and it is not practicable to seal it off against rodent ingress.
I think it would slow them down but not stop them. They would eventually chew threw it.
BillA-
I sealed off the huge holes that the mobile home manufacturer had left around all the plumbing in my old double wide. The varmints had been coming in to commit suicide via Ashley the amazing mouse hunter, which was fine except she kept trying to share her toys with me at 3 AM... I figured plenty of them would remember the trip to the warmer place, so I laid down a little bit of foam in the hole, poured rat poison pellets, added more foam, a few more pellets, a bit more foam, a few more pellets and then foamed over to seal if off. I figured that they would eventually learn that if they messed with the foam, it wasn't going to be a good thing. Worked great until they found the dryer vent....
not a bad idea. In my case I want insulation to replace the F/G that the varmints like to get into. I emailed Tiger Foam and the response was that the foam "is not a food source or nesting material for the rodents." This is good news, but it will have to wait until next summer when it is warm enough to deal with.
Not a "nesting material"? Bullsh*t- the squirrels that chewed through a PVC roof vent and went to town on my Icynene sure didn't read that one!
I have received some Tigerfoam. In the instructions it states that the temp of the two cylinders must be between 75 to 85 degrees to get the best coverage. How of others that used this heated the cylinders? I was thinking of putting them in the bathtub in very hot watere for a couple of hours. Any other ideas?
Thanks MikeWe are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
Bathtub works great. Keep them in there for a couple of hours and shake often, also shake the tanks as you use them, each time you move them. Also, change the tips very often, I keep a jar of Acetone close by and drop the used tips in.
I've never seen rodents chew foam randomly - It is my observation that they will chew about anything if they think it will get them somewhere else - and they sense that by air movement - if there is a tiny draft they will see if they can create a passage - particularly if they sense warmth or food - chewing is always at an edge or juncture of materials - "there's enough for everyone"
I've used plenty of the 600 kits around my old 3 story house and the cheapest place I have found is EFI.org. They are cheaper than Tiger and ebay. Shipping for these is always a little more because it's classified as a hazardous ? material.A few tips:Make sure the substrate is about 70 deg. I wasted some while shooting some in a hall wall caviity in winter and it was not "fluffy" kind of brownish and crispy.I have used the disposable hose for at least 3 sets of tanks, just purge the hose and MAKE SURE THE OLD TANKS ARE CLOSED WHEN U TAKE THE HOSE OFF! Yes I did that and what a mess but acetone cleans the foam off when wet.When I shave the excess dry foam from an open wall cavity I SAVE all of it. That way when I am spraying I take chunks of the shaved stuff and let the new spray keep it in place. Yes I am cheap.This stuff is great, I even shot some of my basement walls where I have to replace some crumbling in the future.Any questions let me know or call me 401.846.1700.I often wondered what the professional foam shooters charge, it's cheaper for me doing it this way at about $500 a time instead of big bucks all at once.Alan S.
Viking Home Improvements
Newport RI
What size foam tanks did you get from EFI.org? On their web site I did not see any of the large tanks ( 600 linear feet) Thanks,Alan Smith
Carpenter ants think it's heaven too.
"Nothing says I love you like a dead rodent delivered to your pillow at 3:00 a.m."Poster at the pet food place.
Dear Bryan,
Ashley was of the persuasion:
Nothing says "Let's have fun and play together!" like a *live* rodent delivered to your pillow at 3:00 AM.....
One thing with the Tiger foam, the shipping of the product is not cheap!
A friend has a factory with a staffed loading dock. When I ordered the materials I specified his shop as the ship to location. I let Tiger Foam know this and they were able to adjust the shipping expense down.
One of our local tool suppliers had a free lunch,vendor expo last week. Handi-Foam was there and they had "show only" pricing, I could have got a 200BDFT kit for 199.00,kicking myself for not.
Anyway, I believe handi-foam (Closed cell) is slightly cheaper than Tiger..there is also Fomo-Foam in DIY kits IIRC.
I get Handi from Farm-tek.com , or should say had, now they stock it 25 miles away..I'll be foaming for air leaks more than deep fill..in a week.
Will post pics and details if anyone is interested.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
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down and people go up and down with
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following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Have you used any of the Tiger Foam slow rise product that is good for filling in wall cavities?
No I have not.
ajs, I used the slow rise Tigerfoam to insulate wall/ceiling cavities in my 150 year old home. I had access to the rafter cavities from the attic. I rigged up a system with fiberglass chimney cleaning rods with the spray gun taped to the end. I tied a string to the handle, ran the rod/gun combo to the bottom of the cavity and pulled the string to release foam, gradually withdrawing the rod/gun combo as I went. It went suprisingly well. The only difficult part was you must keep spraying. If you stop for more than 20 seconds, the mixed foam in the tip solidifies. If you try spraying at this point, you will ruin the spray gun.
Conrad
I have an open attic so I will build catwalks and blow in cellulose for it. What I have been trying to figure out is how easy it will be to insulate the walls, which have only a 3/4 to 1 1/4 inch depth ( see the thread "insulation for a thin wall" , started Oct 2). The fomofoam web site claims that with the slow rise mixture it should not be a problem filling up the cavity, particulaarly if you put one end of some vinyl tubing over the end of the nozzle and shove the other end through the hole and down the cavity. So unless I hear from someone in the Breaktime crowd that they had a bad experience or think that it is a bad idea, I am going to give it a try.
Alan
Alan,
I tried this approach before I came up with my crazy contraption to spray the foam. It didn't work. The problem is that the foam starts to tack up before it reaches the end of the hose, plugs it up and leaves you with a real mess. They recommend a hose no longer than 4 feet, but even that is too long. Unless you are willing to drill holes every so often up the wall and keep the hose very short, you will have to come up with some way to get the gun down to the bottom of the cavity. The biggest problem I can see with the blind hole approach suggested on the web sites it the distinct possibility of leaving voids in your fill. You really have to be sure you are completely filling the cavity, and the only way I know you can insure this is to actually see what you are doing. Good luck.
Conrad
Conrad, Thanks for the heads up! I will try to find a local insulation company that does foam in walls and see if they have any advice for a DIY installation.
See if these guys are in your area.http://www.retrofoam.com/
Order the bigger size! I'm sure you can find somewhere around your house to use it!
My understanding is that the consumer-grade gun and hoses that come with these kits are not re-usable. That would mean if you don't use the whole canister, you'd probably have to buy a new gun-and-hose set to use the rest of the material on a later job. I'm not sure how much those cost.
Possibly you could clean the hoses and gun with the same solvent used for cleaning one-part foam guns; I don't know for sure.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
One of the videos I watched shows the person spreading a dab of what looked like Vaseline over the end of the hose where two outlets are, and then snapping a trigger/nozzle on. That tells me that the trigger/nozzle is disposable and the hose may be able to be purged. The replacement hose/trigger looked like it was about $79. I didn't see anything about what would be needed to clean the residue out completely.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I can't watch on-line videos, bro; I'm on dial-up. Too bad for me, 'cuz I'm interested in using this stuff. The local foam companies all have a minimum charge before they'll roll the truck out of the garage, no matter how few board feet of foam you wanna buy. Makes sense from their point of view, I suppose, but that right there cancels using foam at all for small remod projects.
Small, 2-component foam kits to do a few hundred board feet would be just the ticket for those jobs.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
To be honest, the videos aren't as informative as I would like. All they really do is show someone spraying the foam and filling in a few spots. They have wall cavity filling kits, too and that expands to 8 times its original volume. Every time I see someone spraying foam, it expands and fills the cavity/bay completely and at R-7 per inch, that's what I would like. R-42 + 10" batts would keep this place nice and toasty. Unfortunately, my walls wouldn't be easy to fill and that's where most of my loss is. Still, the wall with the plumbing has some gaps that need filling and foam will be the best way.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Can you go to a library or something with a broad band connection?
Not easily, Bryan. The local library is only open a few days a week and has one computer.
Up in the mountains here, 40kbps dialup is considered fast. I usually get about 35-38. Down in town they can get DSL, but Bell won't run the lines up here. My only other option would be cable which costs $75+ per month...which means it's not an option.
You still thinking about those storms, BTW?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Is there a Starbucks in town? (I'm not promoting them, mind you)
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
No, thank Bog.
But there's two Timmies. One at the south end of town for the locals; the other at the north end on the main drag to the Big Mountain for the tourists. Same owner....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
There is also these guys:
http://www.rhhfoamsystems.com/