Well, when the wife came home a day early and saw the limited results of what meager portion of her study I got done she concluded we needed to do whatever was needed to get a good job done. Immediately, ‘buying a paint sprayer’ raced through my head, and I convinced that was the solution.
This morning after breakfast and running some chores, we ventured up to the nearest Lowes and grabbed an Amspray 1400 airless sprayer. Before leaving the premises, I got to talk to someone who seemed to know a thing or two about painting.
After relating yesterday’s poor experiences to this individual he said, “primer does not always go dow smoothly and more than not will streak like brushing pudding onto the wall.” Dang! He hit the nail on the head. I had streaks all over the place, and it certainly did not go down smooth. He continued by saying, “try to paint what you got primered thus far and don’t be surprised if the results sneak up on you.”
Ok, so we paid for the sprayer, got some macking materials to get medieval on the room, and spent three hours masking the crown and floor moldings, the windows, closet door area and the french doors. In the end the room looked like a car about to get a new coat of paint. And it was at this point we reflected on what this Lowes employee said about testing the already primered area with the paint we bought the day before.
So, with brush in hand (the same Purdy brish I used for primering yesterday), I set out to do a little painting where I knew and could see the streaks in the primer. Well, I was quite surprised at how well the paint went onto the wall in comparison to the primer. Not only did it go down really smooth (like silky/satin finish when wet), but it went down in one coat!
The wife and I we standing there in amazement that the results with the paint was day & night in difference to our experience with the primer. So, instead of cracking open the box with the sprayer in it, we put a new nap on the roller and ‘had at it’ with the rest of the primering. Since it was also suggested that we wait 24-hours from primer-to-paint in even the best conditions, I’ll start really painting on Wednesday. And if the results then turn out like those today then I’m one happy camper.
Now, what I want to know is why it took theis individual to enlighten me about the tendancies of primer not going down smoothly, and that there may just be cases when streaks and blotchiness can result depending on the contractor’s paint underneath? If the results are good on Wednesday when I paint [over] the primer, I’ll return the spray and stick to the brush & roller method as it works!
Replies
Just wouldn't listen to me. Had to go buy a airless. Everybody says don't do it. Did it anyway.
I could have told you the primer goes on blotchy, but you said you were using the finish coat, not the primer. Well at least you didn't try the thing. Then you would have spent longer cleaning the equipment than it took to paint the room.
Huh? I clearly stated in my original post that I had a bad experience putting on the 'one-shade lighter primer'. I also stated my intention to put on a latex paint, and that the current wall covering was the contractor's original latex paint.
But it is good to know, now, that primer is like this. Curious, do you not see any application for which an airless sprayer (or any sprayer for that matter) would come in handy? Not brandishing your words or comments, here, just really curious. In addition to the Oney Do list, I have an entire basement to paint post-drywall. Then, there is bound to be that dang deck, touching up the HardiPlank, the neighbor's cat, etc.
Airless are great for very large jobs, and hard to paint things like: shakes and shingles, stucco, weathered wood fencing, barns, metal roofs, unoccupied and unfinished whole house and apartment interiors etc. For a smooth wall in a occupied house its probably the wrong place. If you want to have one, hey more power to you. I like tools too. But they aren't the end all. Mainly they speed up large or difficult jobs, but the quality of the finished job is not necessarily better.
I thought from memory that you said you were using Behr Paint, not BIN. Sorry, but I was just joking anyway.
Edited 5/26/2003 9:48:44 PM ET by markh128
For the deck use a garden sprayer and back roll to even it out, by time you masked off all the stuff you don't want the overspray on, such as the siding and the windows, etc and clean the machine you can have the deck mostly finished.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Oh, I forgot one thing. For painting the neighbors cat I like to use paintballs. Much more fun than the airless.
kartman0, kartman0, kartman0, next time just listen to mama:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=31052.16
On your next job, cover just the floor and spend those three hours practicing your cutting in freehand instead. In the long run you'll save yourself hours and hours.
We do have an airless sprayer. It is great for painting our outside fencing (of which we have about 1000 linear feet to paint this summer) and the lathe we're using to cover the pool deck shade canopy. My husband also used it to prime and paint the frame on our hauling trailer. But short of the initial paint job on a new home, before the trim and flooring are installed, I think a brush/roller will usually be the best tools for your interior paint jobs.
Gonna paint the wife's nails for her now? :-p
"A completed home is a listed home."
Trimming free hand is definatly faster and the least hassle.Who Dares Wins.
Lisa, I do remember you telling me not to worry about the resulting condition of the applied primer, but you didn't say the results I had gotten should be expected. At that point, I still did not know if what I thought was a problem was something I was doing was causing the problem, the tools, or the materials. This is why I continued down my investigatory course.
Can't wait to see how the paint goes down on the large-wall surfaces on Wednesday. The primer we put down this afternoon is already dry to the touch, but I guess cure time is necessary, right?
Yes, James DuHamel has explained it better here than I can, but primer creates a chemical reaction between the old paint and itself, and then the new paint and itself, that ties the layers together. It's not just dry time - you need to allow time for this curing process to take place.
I think you'll be very happy with the results you get with your final coat. It sounds like you are willing to what is necessary to do the job right. And so it will be beautiful. Enjoy!
"A completed home is a listed home."
I am really glad to hear that, Lisa!
I don't hink I've ever been so eager for a painting activity to come about. Let's see how Wednesday goes.
Now, from a psychiatric perspective, I would like to explore the foundations of the resistence of using modern methods of carrying out a job. During the first couple of threads regarding my wife's Honey Do painting list, several individuals seemed to offer positions in favor of brush/roller, while others seemed almost violently against any notion of a power tool in the painting process.
Of course, I'm just trying to be funny, here, but I wonder how many of those individuals shot themself in the foot with a sprayer, or roller their heads with a power roller. I would imagined that a power roller, for example, would overcome any newbie's tendancy to apply too little/much paint to a roller, and as such eleminate a condition where too little/much paint (via manual roller) hits the wall.
I can understand that the professional has their mojo using whatever system they chose, but isn't rational to think that what some of you are calling gimmicks (and good marketing) the equivalent of picking on those buying sliced bread?
Ok, I'm no psychiatrist (and my spelling is terrible), but just trying to lighten up the discussion here. I certainly mean no offense, but I'd rather see an idiot use a method where they are only required to chose the paint color and let the 'system' work for them. My wife did a considerable amount of rollering, yesterday, and any variations I accepted as the primer's behavior. I just hope the paint goes on well with her behind the roller. This is why I considered, and laghed at, when I mentioned the power roller.
Dang, I was waiting to see how the spraying went.
Oh well, be sure to come back and ask how to get all that tape off. ;-)
Very, very carefully.
Just for chuckles, go try to remove some now. It should have come off right after painting, or as you paint. Well, you should never have needed it, but here we are.
Did I say we, ha.
If it should come right off or during painting then either one should wait until the paint hits the wall, or they have also have to mask (if they are masking) twice, once during primering and once during painting.
Well, I still don't know why you had to prime to paint flat over flat, and I certainly wouldn't have used Zinsser 123 for primer, and I would only have taped the horizontal surfaces to protect from roller splatter, (like base and the tops of windows, etc.), immediately before rolling, and pulled the tape off as soon as I was done a wall. Now if you had some paint go under the tape, and you always do, you could clean the mess off by running a putty knife, covered with a rag, along the top of the base. The trick is to dry the roller off before you run it along the base, just like any other painting, you spread paint in the field and work it into the details.
Your problem now, as I see it, is the tape adhesive has begun to be one with the surface and the paint has added to the problem. I think you need to get this tape off right now, and see what you have to work with. I suggest you try it, and see what is going to happen. I see the tape shredding apart and pulling paint off to boot. You can score the edge of the tape with a knife if the paint build up is great, (a well worn putty knife will score it well enough), and you need to pull the tape off directly over itself favoring the edge that is stuck, and perhaps a blowdryer to heat it up as you go along, very slowly.
Keep this to one thread, and keep it real, and I'll write you a book, you need to start from zero. You took a job I could have finished in one day, and had to find goof off time, to a nightmare. But maybe I'm picky.
Qtrmeg, you act like I made smoe sort of conscious decision in the manner and in the product chosen. I've never painted before, not conducted any activity in painting. I took the wife to a big box for her to buy the items and colors for her to start a project. We went to and they suggested primering the contractor's paint. How would we know better?
Regarding the tape ... the first tape I used didn't even stick while I attempted the primer application process. It was worthless. I am now using medium-tacky 3M painter's masking tape (blue stuff). I will attempt to use a metal guide where the tape stops at the trim's edge at the wall's surface. Wish me luck.
BTW, if the tape removal goes bad, this will force the mrs to learn how to cut-in.
Rugby, what is your opinion on Purdy brushes and rollers? Are they crap?
BTW, the duct tape joke wasn't funny. I'll let you guys with your bondo experiences in duct taping the rotted holes bless you eternally, hehe.
I'm not acting nuttin, good luck.
Hey, what do I know...
I'm not entirely sure. Why are you asking? Did you forget how much you know?
Actually, can't you just help and NOT be condescending?
I'm talkin at you because you may be in a world of hurt, and if you want more, I have bunches. Just stop starting threads so I know where you are at.
Oh, and did I forget half I knew, yep. Can I help without breakin your nubs? Hmm, I could...but I won't.
Guy, I can't help but be a smartarse, let's get on the same page and I'll walk you out of this one.
qtrmeg is a good guy, just got to get past his gnarly exterior he's all teddy bear on the inside,
ain't that right Otr?Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Ya Cupcake, lol.
I've noticed your side all the time here, more than mine. I'm a people person, just ask our inventor friend. Heck, I've been at least 4 friends for him, lol.
depends on the mood I'm caught in at the moment, I'm kind of like a women, I can switch from super nice to super bitch before you can blink
By the way, you bewitch me or something?
my PC sander, probably about 6 years old, disintegrated in my hands today, took it off a piece and it just kept spinning faster and faster and faster then BAMM died, didn't bother to take it apart yet but I got this feeling its done.
Sounded awful right before it kicked, oh well maybe I'll replace with a Bosch, but.....
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Edited 5/27/2003 10:25:55 PM ET by CAG
hey try the Mikita sander..
I love mine.. the reviews were real positive and the price is reasonable.
I like the fact that it is quieter than most and yet very good at sanding.. (that plus it's one of the lighter smaller ones..)
No, I've got some Purdy brushes and I like them just fine. (Gee, I hope that Purdy brushes aren't the DeWalt's of the painting world. ;) Off hand I don't remember the brand names of the other brushes I have. Purdy et al cost 2 to 3 times as much but the price is worth it if you take good care of them.
Talking latex here, when cleaning up I use a fine brass brush to comb out the paint until the water runs clear. then I put just a dot of dishsoap of the bristles, work it in, and rinse again. Slap em out, form into shape, let em dry, and put the bristle cover back on. I really don't know the brand of roller cage I have. They're all too old and covered with paint splatter on the handle and the company logo is covered. But they've got a heavy wood handles and when you spin em they just go on for days and days.
Rollers covers? I just let the paint store people tell me what I need. I'm pretty obsessive about cleaning them up too. I had a friend that has a shelf full of old Pringle's Potato chip cans. Asked him what they were about. He says that he stores his roller covers in them and you don't even have to clean them up. He popped one open that had been up there a while. Bad smell plus kind of mushy crunchy feel to the roller. He didn't see any problem. He ain't painting at my place.
Lowes/Home Dumpo airless sprayers
bought one
tried one
cleaned one
returned one
never again
Poolman, care to share the single experience you had with the sprayer? Thinking of returning the one I got, too, unused of course.
airless are great for some things, I spent the first two hours of my day getting high off lacquer, spraying lacquer sucks, shame its the best way to put it on.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
"Best" Wagner non professional unit
Thinned paint, filtered paint
Drips from nozzle, spatters on wall, messy, poor application
I'm sure it's possible to use airless and do well, but not with this level of equipment.
Well, for what little it's worth, IMHO, you did the right thing by putting a coat of primer on the walls. You really have no idea what's on the wall now (brand, type, primed, coat-rate ?), it could even be oil. It was probably painted by the lowest bidder, so the prep was minimal and the coverage stretched. And as you have already observed, in a lot of applications, one coat of "final" can do it. I prefer the enamel primer because it has a little more body to it and adds some depth to the final finsh.
Don' worry about the tape, end-to-end taping is another skill and benefits from training and practise..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phil, thanks for the reply. True, I have no idea about what the contractor paid to put on the walls, and I'm betting it was the thinnest coat of unprimered paint the painters could find.
BTW, I suppose I could start a hot thread of people's likes and silikes in terms of brands of paint, but I probably get blasted.
You asked some questions earlier about equipment, some answered, some not:
Again, I'd like to reiterate - GO TO PAINT STORES, NOT BIG BOX!
Many of these problems could have been avoided if you'd had good advice from a guy who actually knows paint. I still check everything out with my paint store guy, and I know most of the rules.
Purdy brushes are pretty good - no worries there.
Do not buy or use any of those devices that push paint from the can into a roller system - they're useless and messy. Nobody uses them except beginning homeowners looking for a faster way - they're messy, difficult to clean up, and don't give good results.
Behr paint is not too bad - I still use it sometimes. It depends on how good you are with things like Flotrol and stuff. I would still stick with Benny Moore (and it's not just the name). The cost of paint after you factor in your time and effort is negligible. Example: I bought two gallons of Behr celing paint for $20 - great deal, right? Well, it took me 2 coats and some touch up to get the celing looking just right, and if I look closely I'm still not happy in the kitchen. The Moore would have cost $20 for one gallon, and gone on no fuss, no muss, and probably in one coat and touch up.
Ben:
While I do appreciate your reply and advice, please not let us assume that all paint stores are trustworthy. Of course, there will be a higher concentration (propability) of finding an individual that knows something about paint, but one thing I have learned about the burbs of Atlanta is that finding a 'paint' store is not always easy. Even then, they are a business like everything else.
Now, I made a side note about paints and the general curiosity I have for what others feel of paints they've experienced. I am not a cheap guy, except in terms of paying a fortune to a monkey to do the job. No, I'm not saying painters are monkeys, but a lot around me are and are use to putting down via the cheapest bid. I simply don't trust them, thus I paint.
I don't mind spending $20 or more per gallon of paint. Afterall, its going on the wall for everyone to see, right? Well, maybe not so much in my home theater, but I am not about to skimp on the paint. My first 'paint' purchase was out of a situation where I just did know or realize better. With this in mind, I am given thought to the future projects that come down the Honey Do list.
For instance, the wife has now allowed herself to become convinced that Lowe's Signature Series paint is godly, because the guy at that big box told her to go look at the August 2002 issue of Consumer Report as it was rated very highly. Of course, if several people on onto this thread and also say its a very good paint I have something tangible to believe in.
Finally, please keep in mind that when I do ask some of these questions I am doing so from work. Chatting on this forum (and several others) makes my 'sit there until something breaks' job pass a little quicker. I ask a lot of questions, so don't take it as I may be stubborn or not paying attention. I got your original advice regarding going to a paint store, but been really busy except when at work, hehe.
I hear you - I check the forum much more often from work. That and a modem at home.
I'm just reaffirming that stuff, and also you asked about those power rollers. Stay away from those things.
One last piece of advice - Pay attention to Qtrmeg. Qtrmeg knows more about painting that you or I'll ever know.
Ben
I'm surprised that you don't have many paint stores to choose from. There must be a good half dozen that I see just driving around the Hollywood area, including Ben Moore, Sherwin Williams, and Dunn Edwards. I use Dunn Edwards. They're mainly a pro store, but they're very good about answering questions, even basic questions.
-- J.S.
Hollywood area?
Ah yes, the art is learning to control paint. Well, yesterday morning I took brush in hand and cut in around all the molding and door/window trim, and then proceeded to put the brush down and pickup the roller.
It seems that I do not have a problem with the brush and controlling paint, but I sure do have a problem with the roller. Although I didn't drip any paint yesterday, I did get paint to practically envelop the roller's end caps.
Two of the four walls look perfect and need no touch-up, but the other two walls (with the greatest amount of surface area) I am having problems in controlling my natural desires to limit the amount of paint coming into contact with the roller and laying the paint on to thin.
The two walls with the greatest amount of surface area will either need a complete second coat (not really, but if I do touch-up work I think the new roller tracks can be discerned from the old) or a method needs to be implemented on 'how-to' do touch-ups nicely.
Someone on this forum suggested that I get a 5-gallon bucket and screen and also a long-handled roller as a means for controlling and applying paint to wall. Anyone have opinions on this one? Also, for those stating that a power roller is messy and not worth the headache over a conventional roller, I presume you'all are speaking from personal experience?
Finally, I could take some quick snapshots and post them in attempt to help better visualize the current results. Anyone?
Two coats is the status quo. You won't be having as much trouble with the roller if you're not loading it up with too much paint trying to cover in one coat. Just take the roller cover, put it in a plastic baggie or wrap it with saran wrap, and coat it after 4 hours or on the next day.
This sure would be easier to help you with if we were there! It's hard to give advice without watching you. I assume you're using a metal paint pan. Are you using a hard plastic pan liner?
"A completed home is a listed home."
Edited 5/29/2003 8:29:17 PM ET by Lisa L
Lisa, feel free to stop by my home anytime. :) I am using a metal roller pan with a thin, flexible plastic liner. I am thinking of a 5-gal bucket & screen that someone else suggested a while back (and a long-handled roller).
Ben, I didn't know two coats is the status quo. Keep in mind I'm a newbie and you were the first to suggest such a quo.
Found a paint store near me. Its a Sherwin-Williams. Anynoe got something bad to say about them? Just following another suggestion from this forum. They, too, suggested a brush & roller method, but they also suggested their paint product, too. No surprise there as its the nature of the beast (businesses, that is).
The Sherwin-Williams rep suggested their SuperPaint, explaniing its formulated for people that have neer painted before. He elaborated that it dries to an even thickness, 6.5-7 mils, and then added most common paints dry to 4 mils thickness. He also suggested that snice I was already rollering in a slanted-vertical fashion to finish up rollering a wall at the end by re-rollering horizontally.
Are there such paints for the inexperienced? This sounds almost like a marketing gimmick as the power rollers.
your still using that roller pan??
ditch it,
bucket and screen so much easier, I suggested it earlier, you will thank yourself.
I didn't bother to read up much further, hows it going now?
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
The endcaps on some roller frames will hold more paint than others. If you can find one where the caps are pretty much flat rather than concave you'll be better off. Some of the caps have "spokes" on the outside and these tend to cause streaks because they hold so much paint and dribble it out. The streaks however can be rolled out after the roller is drier.
I always use 2 finish coats. Only a really good painter can cover evenly with one coat, even with good paint.
"Found a paint store near me. Its a Sherwin-Williams. Anynoe got something bad to say about them?"
Hell no I got nothing bad to say about them. : ) Here, we've basically got S-W and Diamond Vogel for "paint stores". I usually go to D-V as they're more a little more helplful and I get contracter prices there. I've been very satisfied with both stores. Hope no offense was taken regarding my "duct tape" comments. None was meant. When it comes to painting I'm not a pro by a long shot but have painted alot of walls and ceilings over the years. I just remember all the frustration I had in masking and wouldn't want anyone to have to go through that.
I use a 5 gal bucket and screen for primer but go with the roller pan for the finish coat. I'm less sloppy working out of the roller pan.
I have to disagree with Markh128 on only pros can cover in one coat. I'd add that also the very slow can cover in one coat and that's me.
Paint for the inexperienced. That's a new one to me. Does sound a little gimmicky. Probably just good paint with a hefty price tag. "Purdy" on, dude.
The following is the product Data Sheet for the Sherwin-Williams 'SuperPaint', which they give 5-stars for coverage. (Its an Adobe PDF file and you will need the Adobe Acrobat Read installed.)
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/apps/PickPros/display.asp?type=data&id=45
If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed, you can get it for free here:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html
The rep at Sherwin-Williams told me yesterday that the drying thickness of this SuperPaint was 6.5-7 mils DRY, but the product Data Sheet says 4-mils WET and 1.5-mils DRY.
I then compared this to the Sherwin-Williams EverClean product which has a 3-star rating for coverage and it has the same WET thickness, but the DRY is a little thicker (1.7-mils). I suppose its not the thickness that counts but the characteristics of how the paint goes down onto the wall.
As far as the paint on the ends of the roller, you should be pulling the paint from the top onto the slanted part of the tray, not plunging it into the paint, right? This way the ends don't get paint on them. This is why I never liked those screens for 5 gal buckets, the ends get loaded, and the paint wants to come off where you least want it. I have painted right out of a 5, but just tapped the roller against the sides to get the extra off. Don't try that with a cheap roller handle or you'll end up just holding the roller pole. You are using a roller pole, right! I like the 2-4ft extension poles, cam lock not clip lock.
Also, you might try going to a 1/2"nap, once they wear in you really are dealing with 3/8". Once you have expertly loaded the roller, turn the roller as you move it to the wall. I'm not sure how to explain this, but you want to control as much paint as you can so you are going to load the roller so it wants to drip. On the way to the wall rotate the handle 180 degrees, and then back, and the paint won't have a chance to drip. When you get to the wall spread the paint from bottom to top, starting a couple of feet off the ground, and most of the splatters will be forced up into the area you are rolling. Try to spread it evenly, and work one way to spread it over the area you can cover with one load, then work back to even it out. If you want better coverage you can spread half the wall and go back and roll the whole thing again, providing you left the paint on heavy enough you have just done what all the "pros" call 2 coats. ;-) Me, I just run around the room twice, finishing along the base only the second time. (see, you don't really have to tape twice).
Your coverage with one coat over that 123 junk is going to be marginal, it has a hard slick surface, and the paint is going to want to slide. Just forget it, slap one coat on and second coat it right away, it will be faster than playing with something that won't work. There was no reason to use it in the first place, even if the previous paint was junk, priming it won't help it bond to the wall any better than it has. One thing it did do was give you a less porous surface to paint, which makes it easier to spread paint and gives you more "wet" time, but I bet it cost you one coat coverage where it should have been possible.
Superpaint is fine, and would be a good choice for you, but forget about that Easy Clean stuff, yech! And yes, paints are formulated for all sorts of conditions and appications. Many paints ARE formulated for newbies, and I have remarked "this paint is made for idiots, only an idiot could put it on", and that is truer than you know. Most of it has to do with flow and set time. As far as the mil thickness, 4 mils is the spread rate, but I don't doubt that paint can be put on heavier, so 6-7 mils is doable. Play around with the wrong paint, on a day that doesn't promote fast drying, and you may find you have a mess tho.
You should also buy a brush/roller spinner, if you don't have one yet. And don't buy any tools at the boxes, they are not the same, not even close. One exception is I can buy Purdy brushes at HD for a buck or so less than at a paint store, but big deal. Everything else isn't worth it, pure crap.
One more thing, do you drink? If not, start, you can't paint unless you are an alcomaholic.
Qtrmeg:
You are using a roller pole, right! I like the 2-4ft extension poles, cam lock not clip lock.
Nope, I'm using the regular POS hand roller that HD sold me, but the wife just left to buy some paint from Sherwin-Williams and is also getting a hand-roller with a 18" handle on it to minimize the ladder-work. Is there a product you can reccomend that features this cam-lock?
Also, you might try going to a 1/2"nap, once they wear in you really are dealing with 3/8".
Interesting that you said this as we (me and the wife) were just told by a different person at SW to go with a thicker nap than the 3/8" we were using. He also suggested the 1/2". Good to get confirmation from you as its reassuring the person I also spoke to may actually know something, too.
On the way to the wall rotate the handle 180 degrees, and then back, and the paint won't have a chance to drip.
Gotcha, and I do understand what you mean. If I see the painting wanting to make a run for it (off the roller), I'll make sure to rotate it so that it has to travel the length of the nap again.
If you want better coverage you can spread half the wall and go back and roll the whole thing again, providing you left the paint on heavy enough you have just done what all the "pros" call 2 coats.
I think I know what you mean. By loading the area with a significant amount of paint, it will almost look like its sweating, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, I hear you about the primering aspect over the contractor junk originally on the wall. The wife is getting a couple of gallons of the SuperPaint right now.
BTW, the sprayer is on its way back to Lowes, and I do drink (a lot at times). I always thought the weekends were for drinking--how else could one tolerate the Honey Do list?
Great, you need to buy their best quality roller handle. They have a little longer length and a much stronger arm. The box stuff may look the same, but they are cheaper for a reason. Don't even get me started on this.
Hmm, the extension poles, most quality ones I see now feature a clip lock, so to set the length a pin goes into various holes on the inside section. Ok, but you get wiggle, and that is the last thing you or I need. The cam locks come in two types, one has some goofy twist lock at the end of the bottom section, and it is a pain, and they break. The best ones have an internal cam, so when you want to change the length you just twist the two tubes to adjust, and twist back to tighten. Now I hope you are happy, because I just went to look, and the only one I saw was an old Structron Superhandle, and I know I bought a new one at SW, and it is nowhere to be found! <note to self, tell my painter to bring ALL my stuff back here> In any case, your SW should have a very nice cam lock fiberglass 2-4ft extention pole, it looks like like the attachment, but clean and blue. You need it, (you just don't know it), and it will last your lifetime. I mostly run 18" rollers, 3/4 nap, and no probs.
Rotating, your instinct is to go to the wall level, sure, go for it. But to get any paint to the wall you want to carry as much as you can. So come out level, then flip 180, then flip back as you start to spread. The paint will want to drip less if you are level, don't keep it vertical. Ok, where is your tray? I had a guy last summer that insisted on having the tray anywhere but near the wall. In all fairness he was hired as a carpenter, but come on. I slide the tray down the wall, using the roller to move it, and you be careful with that stunt.
That "2 coat" trick is for pros, and you need to be going the speed of sound, your best bet is as follows. First, cut everything in, and unless you are re-coating the same color, plan for two coats. I will only one coat when I know for a fact I can get coverage, because you don't get full mil and straight lines. I almost always thin the cut stock more than the roller stock, to get the perfect edge and get the speed I need. This is just like taping drywall, you don't do it inch by inch, you need to get as much material to the wall as fast as you can, and spread it as evenly as you can. You will also find the so-called perfect edge is 2 coats of unperfect edges, while a slightly heavier coating rolled one coat will be the equal.
Once the cut has dried enough for tape I tape off a room and roll it out. For paint trim I don't tape, I drybrush the edge and trim the base last. You want to ignore your trim, so it is ok to tape, but even blue tape isn't a picnic. You are doomed for 2 coats because of the primer, but try like this. Tape the base off, (and tape class is another chapter), roll the walls at speed, but roll horizontal to the base dry, keeping slightly away from the tape, just smooth off the bottom. One coffee break and you can go right at the second coat, this time run the free edge of the roller along the top of the baseboard, and pull the tape off as you finish a wall.
Basic babble, I hope it helps. Maybe I should write a book, I have yet to see a good one. I did like the few page article on how to spray a house, I'm sure that caused more trouble than it was worth.
Cool for the sprayer, you did the right thing on that score.
We have two kinds of "paint stores" in our area, consumer-oriented stores and pro-oriented stores. Both kinds charge outrageous prices compared to the 3 flavours of box stores around (e.g. a roller spinner costs <C$20 at HD and around C$30 at the B-M dealer); the pro stores treat amateurs like dirt and the consumer stores don't carry the top-quality brushes and rollers. Neither seems to be a good source for information. .
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Sorry to hear that, Phil. It sounds like they need to know who their customers are.
I do combo shopping myself. I get brushes, roller covers, drop cloths, scrapers, and all my necessary and sudry items at big box. I can sometimes be tempted by the paint prices as well, but I do regret it sometimes. For my paint stores around here I've been lucky - I explain what I'm trying to cover if I have an issue, and they give me relatively good advice. If they were snotty, I'd walk, but so far they haven't been.
I have sometimes received good advice at home depot, sometimes not. With the building industry being good lately in the Boston area, mostly it's been poor lately. I get the mechanic's shrug, or half-a$$ed advice I can sometimes tell is being made up on the spot. If you're going to make stuff up, at least put some effort into it so I don't walk out pissed off. Better yet, keep on doing it so I can tell that you're blowing smoke and can ignore you.
BTW, loved your comment to RonT about the Canadian Prime Minister's son.
Just use duct tape to mask it really works good. It's reusable too if you don't fold it over on itself. Press it down and no paint will ever get under it. <G>
I gave up masking off years ago. As others have said way too time consuming in most cases. I'm not a professional painter but end up painting more than I would like. Go to a paint store where the pro's go and get good quality brushes, rollers, etc and just like any other tools take care of them like it was a beloved friend. Good quality professional tools make any job easier. That's the best painting tip I can give.
I've always had a problem reusing duct tape, but I'll get the hang of this someday...
Hey, duct tape makes for a good cup holder.
Just peel it off really, really, really slow, slow as in watching paint dry and most of the sticky stuff stays on the tape and it ready to use again. ;) Oh heck, I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know I'd rather paint carefully than mask.
I will add the cup holder to my duct tape usage list with due credit given. :)
Primer goes on splotchy if the original coat of paint is weak. In new construction, it generally is, so the next paint job really shows it up. That, however, is the whole purpose of primer: to seal the surface evenly so that the top coat holds out evenly. If the primer goes on perfectly, you probably didn't need it!
If you are going to spray, read my article "Spray Everything".
Did you learn how to paint before they sold you a spray gun?
Evidently not, but feel free to email me your article. I always wanted to learn how to spray.
Well that was a rude reply, but yes, I put in about 10 years painting before I started spraying. If you want my article, buy it from the archives. If you don't want input, don't post.
Rude?
It is obvious from your post you don't have a clue.
You want the details?
Fluff some happy spray article, and pose if you want, but think twice before you give me any grief, I will unwrap you. And no, I'll spare the change, I probably went thru 10 sprayers before you went genius.
Sorry to burst your bubble, kisses and hugz baby. Sorry also to not give you the respect to so obviously feel you deserve, but I don't know you from a hole in the ground. It's not my job to stroke your ego, go pimp your one trick pony away from my face. When you say a single thing I agree with, I will support you.
That's the deal. Rude? <shrug> Reality? Yeps.
I guess I blew the people person merit badge again...
In my original post I:
1) Answered your questions about primer coverage/consistency, explaining (and agreeing) with your observations.
2) Recommended that if you were interested in spraying, that I wrote an article for this fine publication giving great detail to homeowners on how to accomplish fine interior (and exterior finishes, but that's another article) using a sprayer. Just thought you might want to peruse it to answer more questions.
Sounds like you don't need any help though! Good luck!
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=31095.52
Nope, not even close.
And maybe that is what the problem is with FHB, the articles are written for homeowners.
I don't have any grief with you, I am sure you do fine work. You were wrong with the advice for spraying shingles, but that was another thread...
You know, you've given me a great idea, I think that what people really need is an article on primer. Just from these two threads, I can see people really don't understand it very well and there are a lot of misconceptions about it.
BTW, spraying interiors is the most profiable thing I ever did, that's the real reason I wrote the article. Yes, it's accessible to homeowners, but it's the only way to go for pros.
Anyway, have a good weekend.
An article on primer would be good. I'm a "primer believer" given the results I've had at home and from associating with a paint crew lately. Primer hides everything: old colours, colour transitions, filler, marks, dirt, and water marks from cleaning and give a paint-klutz like myself a totally uniform surface to paint on - 1 coat of paint is usually all you need.
Downside from a pro's point of view: the more you need to hide, the longer the primer has to be allowed to dry - I can wait 2-3 days, a pro crew normally can't..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
2-3 days? I must be using the wrong primer! For all of the situations you mentioned, a light coat of latex will handle it. This can dry in less than an hour in some situations, less than a day in most, interior or exterior. If there is concern about water soluable staining, I follow this with a fog coat of fast dry alkyd. I maintain, most people prime far too heavily. I remember the first time I primed raw drywall. I got about 20% of the coverage the can said. Everytime I turned around my beautiful even coat of white was gone, and the surface looked unprimed. After that I tried following the directions, and even though almost 100% appeared to soak in, the hold out on the top coat was the same (and I could recoat immediately, instead of waiting). The moral of this is that this is exactly one of the purposes of primer: to seal the surface for good hold out of the top coat, not to cover the surface. You mention several other excellent uses, many of which have specific primers.
"Alkyd" ? I thought only the old farts lost in the techniques of the 60's still used alkyd ? In any case, the longer you leave the primer, up to about 72 hours, the more opaque it's surface becomes and the less prone it is to solvent penetration from a coating surface. So while the surface may appear to have variations in colour, particularly along the top few inches of the wall, or have marks showing through, they will most often completely disappear during the second day..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
The wife and I are going to run some errands this morning and then hit the walls. I can say this, the paint will be on something starting with a 'w', so that's either the walls, the wife, or both. Wish me luck. I printed out some of the stuff you mention in technique for the wife to read also.
K >>> "the paint will be on something starting with a 'w' "
Err, wednesday?
Good luck,
No, the Wall or the Wife.
DO NOT PAINT THE WIFE.
Me and my girl were painting her bedroom and she accidently droped her brush on my head from above, so I decided the smart thing to do as we were both laughing would be to put a stripe down the side of her face.
You've seen how it works out on TV, you know both people laughing, start trying to hit the other person with there brush both people laughing all funny and stuff,
It don't work that way in real life, at least not with my G/F she got super pissed..........Nice thing was I got to finish painting the room with out her "help"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Great results! That SuperPaint applied with the 1/2" nap produced terrific results! I think I need to buy some more of that Sherwin-Williams SuperPaint before their sale is up (Reg. $29/gal, on sale for something like $21-22/gal). The wife was so pleased with the results she on autopilot in thinking about the master bedroom, which has about double the square footage of the study we just did.
See,
Perfect results without a power roller or a airless. Good tools and paint and some care gets the results you want. Glad things worked out well.
Curious ... before I treated naps like a disposable item. Then, on Wednesday, I took a 3/8" Pudy nap and cleaned it with not much effort (and it came clean). This evening, I cleaned two 1/2" SW naps and with a little more effort they came real clean (almost new, I would say).
So, how long does everyone's naps usually last them, and what special preps do you use if any (I'm only using water).
To clean your rollers you "need" one of these, called a 5 in 1, should be able to find one at any paint or hardware store, makes life much easier and helps get all the paint out of the roller
View ImageNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
I wash them out with some soap or detergent. In addition to the 5 in one, I like to spin them with a brush/roller spinner. If you see paint residue in the spun off solvent, you need to rinse some more.
I had a wagner roller spinner, which somehow disappeared, and bought a chinese one from HD to finish up with. It works, but I suspect it will not last as long. The spinners are the cats meow, you will be amazed how dry they will leave your brushes and rollers. Spin them in a5 gal bucket or you'll hava a mess.
Good rollers will last a really long time if kept clean.
Where did you buy your Wagner? I suppose Sherwin-Williams would also sell their branded version, too.
I bought the wagner at a "warehouse paint" now called "MAB paint store". They're local here, but I don't know if they are nation wide. The HD unit was only like $12, so it's not too bad a deal, but I'm not big on chinese tools. I'd try it in the store to see if it works before buying it though.
Goof-Off anyone? I need to clean two spots. One I made a week ago and its about the size of an eraser head (#2 pencil), and the other about the size of a dime that the wife did. Personally, I say replace the carper as its the crap the builder installed.
Might as well buy one of these too>>>
Brush and roller cleaner
Cag, a 5 in one tool? Man...
Edited 6/1/2003 11:56:59 AM ET by Qtrmeg
yep, perfect for lotso things, carry one in my bags and use it at least once a day for something.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Never owned one, I guess I better stick to wrecking wood...
comes in handy for wood butchering too...
Used it yesterday installing "smart siding" T 1-11 looking crap on a tornado damaged house out here, used to cut caulk when my knife wasn't handy, and used to slide up a piece of that crap when when I made a cut to tight and needed to wedge the sheet up onto the z-bar
but then again, I ain't to smart so.......Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Yes, they've been discussed here several times; I recall most people put it up near the top of their "most-useful tool list". It's just amazing how much paint it can recover from your roller before cleaning..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I just removed the masking from the room. I had no problems removing it. Amazing! There is a couple of really small spots where the paint got onto the white enamel, but that's easily cleaned up, right?
Latex paint on enamel? small drops? try a bit of goof off, the variety for water based paints, not oil, but first in a not so noticable spot try a single edge razor very carefully and try to "pop" the paint offNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Your problem with wife painting may have been too much surface area. Last week while we were painting sash, I did brush a tiny dab, less than a quarter of a square inch, on the tip of my wife's nose. That's enough paint to make the joke without getting it in her hair.
-- J.S.
lol, wasn't that bad, probably a half inch stripe, maybe 3 in long, just touched her with the end of the bristles left a little line, either way she did NOT find it funny
but if I knew it would have gotten her out of the room I'd of done it about 2 hours earlier. Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
As I say in every article "oil is dead", except for stain blocking. I've never really had any problems with color variation, but I use kick-#### topcoats just so I don't have to worry about such things. I've literally topcoated over barely wet primer (talking interior applications here) without difficulty, but that's a spray application. Obviously, for roller work, you need to have an absolutely dry basecoat.
Well, the wife and I just finished putting on the SuperPaint we got from Sherwin-Williams, yesterday. I have to say this stuff is plenty thick. In fact, I would almost say that with the right applicator tool one does not need to mask! By the time we finished the last wall the initial wall was looking pretty dry (we dared not touch it) and it looked real good!
Qtrmeg, I did not yet get that extention handle for the roller, but I am gonna get it. The SW roller with the 18" handle was a blessing. I can only imagine what a 2-4' unit would do.
Just found this thread.
Painters with egos, just a stroll down memory lane. Thanks for the memories and a tip of the bottle to the pros.
Hate the camlocks <g> favorite cover for latex, 1/2" lambswool
View Image
Barry E
"I did not yet get that extention handle for the roller,"
The S-W extension poles (S-W brand, Twist-lock) were 25% off today (Sat.) up here in the middle of nowhere. Don't know if the same applies where you are at. Just wanted to pass this along.
Rugby, CAG, thanks for the replies. I guess after dumping the spray back on Lowes' doorstep I wander over to SW as the one near me is open on Sundays.
You mean people don't understand primer like in http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=31017.34 ?
So when F says, in his first post, the wood pegged the moisture meter, you suggest a fogcoat over a wet sawn surface, then build on that?
All of this stuff is way over my head...
Well, I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread, I was just responding to the fact that he was having trouble painting them (like most people). Yeah, if you're saavy enough to test with a moisture meter, and you peg it, you shouldn't paint. I actually thought that was somebody else who was bringing that up.
I can see that this thread is thoroughly covered without my input. Keep up the good work!