Regarding common trusses –
I’m building a stick garage 30×40. Would it be more economical to build my own trusses. Quotes average about $80/truss. By my calculations I could build them for $40/truss. Is there any reason why trusses are not built on site or by master DIY building their own garage?
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Replies
Building Your Own Trusses
My mind not only wanders, it sometime leaves completely.
Boss knows trusses. He will give you the same type of answer regarding trusses that the fire chief will give you regarding smoke alarms; put six in each room, including one under each pillow type of answer.
If you want a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants answer, here goes:
Up to 24', under most circumstances, I would say go for it as long as you try to overbuild them. Take what specs you think ought to be adequate and then double it. I say 24' because you can get 24' 2x4 some places to form a single piece bottom cord. Fine for a garage (unless you park a Rolls). I would think twice about residential in snow country.
More than 24' and you're just asking for trouble. Around here, 4/12 long trusses run less than $3/ft, plus delivery. that's pretty hard to beat when you are stretching the building material to its limits.
Now don't suit me.
"He will give you the same type of answer regarding trusses that the fire chief will give you regarding smoke alarms; put six in each room, including one under each pillow type of answer."
Never thought of it that way, but I guess it's partly true. I like to think I'm not paranoid about trusses. But I guess you can draw your own conclusions there..............(-:
I try to discourage people from building their own trusses, obviously. I do this not because I think it's a popular opinion, but because I think it's the correct thing to do.
And I always get crap for it from someone. Guess we'll see how much I get in this thread, huh?The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
I think it just depend how it's done.
My dad got quotes for trusses on his house. Decided they were too dang much. So he build them out of 2x8's from a local lumber mill. Got those real cheap. 3/4" plates glued and nailed. Probably 10 times stronger then those he'd have bought. Cost him less then 1/2 what the 2x4 trusses would have. NO worries about his roof.
Then there's a house I looked at in the country. Thought real serious about buying it until we got a copy of a home inspection report. Homemade trusses that were scary. Entire roof needed ripped off and replaced.
Real nice shed plan here.
http://www.familyhandyman.com/200106/features/css/
There's some good suggestions in this article on how to build trusses. What do you think Boss?
One issue to consider: resale value and the home inspection for a potential buyer.
I see site built trusses on smaller houses from the 1950's - I tell my clients they stood the test of time and were probably done from a design in Popular Mechanics of something.
If I saw newer house (say, 20 years or less) I'd tell 'em to get 'em checked by a structural engineer because nobody serious does that kind of stuff today unless they also took the DIY Brain Surgery course from Fine Psychiatry. {G}
I'd also take out my microscope, figuring anyone site building their trusses has probably taken some other shortcuts.
God protect us all from intuitive carpenters!
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Frankly, I've never built any trusses. Just why do you consider site built trusses a shortcut? I know a mechanic that has built 3-4 houses, think he builds his own trusses, but just because he loves to stick build stuff. He gets them professionally designed, but puts them together himself.
Dad built his mainly because he found 2x8's at the mill cheaper then 2x4's at the lumber store. He did a real good job on them to. Not sure the home inspector even poked her head in the attic when they sold the place, but they're sure much stronger then any truss I've ever dealt with.
Usually, I don't think you'd save enough money to make it worth it, but if money was real tight maybe. If I ever get around to building a workshop I might just build my trusses, but it'll depend on if I can save enough money to matter.
Seems I'm always short on money, but shorter on time.
"Probably 10 times stronger then those he'd have bought."
That I don't buy at all. The fact that they look impressive doesn't mean they're strong. I've never seen a set of homemade trusses yet that was anywhere near the standards we have to make trusses to.
I've said it planty before, but it bears repeating. Trusses are like a chain, in that they are only as strong as the wakest link. Screw up one thing, and the whole truss is worthless. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Factory built trusses offer a lot, including things that may not be apparent or obvious. The truss detailer gets to pick from a number of truss "patterns" ('w,' 'm,' King, scissors, etc.) to suit the situation best. The detailer can factor in important items like ceiling dead loads, roof live and dead loads, and, importantly in garages, uplift considerations.
In the Texas Panhandle, it is not uncommon to find shop & garage roofs tossed off the walls by relatively low-energy wind bursts. That dollar (or so) spent on some Strong-Ties to connect rafter, or truss, to the walls is cheap insurance over finding your roof inside the garage (or in the neighbor's).
Just a thought.
"Real nice shed plan here.
http://www.familyhandyman.com/200106/features/css/
There's some good suggestions in this article on how to build trusses. What do you think Boss?"
Forgot to address this in the other post.
Truses for a 10' shed aren't a big enough span to worry about. But even for 10' the gussets look undersized. Especially with the storage area in them.Fat people are harder to kidnap.
You're probably right that they're not ten times stronger. But, I doubt there were weaker. Dad's gussets were if anything way oversized. Typical of how he builds things.
I understand your chain analogy, but am not sure it's entirely accurate. We've discussed my roof where trusses were cut for chimneys. Walking on that section of the roof feels no different then other sections. There are no spongy sections, no signs the roof is sagging. The trusses must be providing some support, although I'm sure it isn't anywhere near what an uncut truss would provide.
Maybe it's just the boards tying the cut truss to the uncut one on either side is taking up the slack. Not sure. I'll defer to your greater knowledge here. I never have and never will cut a truss. Still need to figure out how to fix the one I've got.
After looking at the link again, I'd say you're be right, those gussets look awfully small. I posted it mainly because it shows an easy way to put together identical trusses.
"You're probably right that they're not ten times stronger. But, I doubt there were weaker. Dad's gussets were if anything way oversized."
You may be right - I can't see them and can't tell. Without knowing the lumber secies and grade, loading info, etc. It would be hard to judge.
"I understand your chain analogy, but am not sure it's entirely accurate. We've discussed my roof where trusses were cut for chimneys."
When one truss is cut, the adjacent trusses assume part of the load through the diaphram action of the roof plywood, or bear on interion non-load bearing walls. If ALL the trusses have a defect, then my chain analogy is correct.Employment application blanks always ask who is to be notified in case of emergency. I think you should write "A very good doctor."
Boss,
As long as you're here I've got a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants question I've always wondered about:
With DIY trusses shallow enough or short enough so that the peak is 48" or less, it seems to me a cheap, easy "monster gusset" of a full sheet of OSB trimmed to fill the void (& with a couple 2x members to prevent buckling, etc) would be effective and easy. I know OSB isn't an ideal material for this application, but it's cheap and on smaller trusses it seams reasonable to my little brain, given the over-the-top size if the gusset.
Actually, I've seen a set of factory made trusses that had a plywood web, kinda like an I-joist. But I've never been able to find out who made them.
I don't think they'd be any better for DIY trusses, though. You still need to do the design work - Figuring lumber sizes and species, nailing pattern, etc.
But it's an interesting idea..........Bumpersticker: I brake for…wait…AAAH!…NO BRAKES!!!!!
Well, dad's were unique. He lives in high snow country, but built his roof so steep, with metal roofing, that snow doesn't stay on for long. The trusses also tie into the old house, so they aren't a common style.
Mainly, his living in the mountains, delivery cost more then the trusses would have. I think he was almost forced to build his own. He saved money. Me in town facing the same situation, it'd cost me days wasted pounding trusses together at retail lumber costs. Most likely I'd spend nearly as much in lumber as the completed trusses would cost, then have to pay for ####boom truck to put them up. I might break even, $ wise, but the time is too expensive.
For a small garden shed, like the article shows, I might do it. Never on a house.
Your chain analogy makes perfect sense if all trusses were cut. Amazing how things that haven't been done right, i.e. cut trusses, still work because adjacent structures take on the load. Amazing there aren't more failures.
Ive built my own trusses for a garage 28L X 22W, plywood gussets glued,nailed,built them inside in 2 halves moved into garage fastened together and set in place,braced etc. worked out fine.
We had the matl on site it took 2 of us about 4 hours to cut all the components and another 6hrs to assemble them. nailed layout cleats to the floor dropped in the lumber and went to work.
Boss Hog, where do you think the first truss was built?? I would venture to guess that an individual built one or many, then saw that they could manufacture them for the masses.not the other way around.Factories making a product without a market dont last long.
I think theres probably more manufactured trusses that fail then site built trusses failing as evidenced by the roof collapse threads posted here.I doubt someone cobbled together a truss on site for a commercial building.
You cant design a building for every possible threat of weather disasters or man made disasters the cost would be prohibitave.Your post 21664.11 mentions a 100 year snow load. In Ill. or KS that would be what... 6''?? of snow. Reminds me of the collar tie thread talking about keeping the wind from pulling your roof apart...If theres enough wind to pull your roof off, your house is done anyway. Iam in Kansas and we call those winds that tear your roof off Tornados and if its that close its over. We rountinly have severe thunderstorms in the spring and summer with 50 to 80 mph winds without tornados. my home is was built in 1945 no collar ties and my roof has never spread and blown off.
just a note off the subject abit.Tornados are low pressure they implode your house.Thats why things get sucked up into tornados
I agree that someone without building background should'nt attempt it and spans over 30 feet should be eng. or bought from a truss plant. That way if they fail you can sue the truss manufacturer.
Wether stick or trussed span tables must still be consulted. the above is MHO
Every time I talk about DIY built trusses, some ignorant jerk like you has to jump in who thinks they're an expert because they cobbled together one set of half-a$$ed trusses.
Trusses were invented by an individual, just like the first car. But they quickly realized they could be built better in a factory than by individuals. Do you build your own cars too?
If you think Kansas and Illinois only get 6" of snow, you obviously don't have much of a grip on reality.
The idea that homemade trusses are stronger than factory built trusses is asinine.
Obviously you can't make a building that will survive every possible kind of weather. But that's no reason not to try to improve on the way things are done.
Factory built trusses fail on commercial jobs most often because they were installed wrong, not because they weren't strong enough. you don't see site built trusses on commercial jobs because the architects and engineers involved know better.
Hopefully someday you will too. Why does your OB-GYN leave the room when you get undressed if they are going to look up there anyway?
Boss, I've read many of your recent and past banal condescending name calling post's to anyone who disagrees with you. To refer to me as an ignorant jerk and call into question my skills and craftsmanship is unwarranted and once again shows what type of person you really are.By stating and I quote your post to me "some ignorant jerk like you has to jump in who thinks they're an expert because they cobbled together one set of half-a$$ed trusses." This to me implies that everything else I do is cobbled together and halfway done( I don't want to lower myself to your boorish and childish level by using profane language I guess you don't have a good command of the english language so you use slang and curse words to drive your points home)You know nothing about me or my skills yet you call me ignorant???
To address your second paragraph, no I don't build my own cars but I've done several ground up restorations of of many cars including but not limited to Porsches 914 and 911, VW bug, Triumph GT6, MG midget,many American cars to numerous to list.throw in a a few motorcycles too 74 kawa 550 triple 2 stroke. 78 Moto Guzzi 550 78 Yamaha 125 dirt bike and Ive had sailboats and speed boats too...so I guess if I wanted to.. I could build my own car or boat or anything else I need.Remodrling and building are what I do for a living. I am also aware that there are those who are better faster etc,I keep an open mind and I learn something new everyday I wish I could say that about you.
I was using a little sarcasm as far as the 6'' of snow...But then again I don't think you have a grip on reality either.. I am looking at our season snowfall totals and guess what its 12.7" again that's for the season as reported in our newspaper 3/20/03 which I would say is less than 6'' at any given moment during the season. As far as reality goes I am ahead of you.
Your third point .....Well I think your just plain wrong besides how would you know? it looks like your to busy posting here and name calling to ever actually design a truss much less build one or a set and place them...i.e. your post timed 1:24 pm ( I know you were on vacation today... maybe you were home sick ...ok ok you were on break when you posted... that's it.. that's the ticket)
On five I somewhat agree with what you said but not what your implying ( that commercial trusses are an improvement over site built.. although its true in some cases)and further more because you or an eng.said it would work and the truss was built in a factory by minimum wage earners doesn't mean its better , stronger or exempt you from the laws of physics.read on
On six I am well aware that its not feasible or acceptable to site build trusses for commercial applications.but in the event of a failure who says they were strong enough?(Probably the lawyer for the liability insurance company). how do you know they weren't strong enough?...A lot of things collapse because they were not strong enough to resist the load they were subjected too and heres a reality check for you they were designed by an eng.Remember the Hyatt in Kansas City? The list of under eng. structure failures is an endless one.
I was taught in hunter safety to never trust a safety on a weapon because it is a mechanical device and all mechanical devices are subject to failure.
Boss Hog what a name fits your personality perfect.Look up hog in the dictionary (its a thick book with a lot of words).1.a pig;esp.,a castrated boar or a full grown pig of more than I'll raised for its meat.But I really like definition 3.a selfish,greedy,gluttonous ,coarse ,or filthy person.. have a nice evening.
P.S. I typed slow because I know your a slow reader ..hope it helped .....bye
Hey........Xray,
Did it ever occur to you that Boss Hog makes "TRUSSES" for a living? As for definitions....X-ray as in definition #2....[ Translation of German X Strahlen (so called because its exact nature was not known).]
JACK.
Yes Iam aware and so is everybody else who visits here,Boss has told us ad nauseam along with his name calling etc etc.I never said he does'nt know what he is talking about,my beef with him is how he goes off on people and acts like he owns this site.Go back and read his past posts and I think you'll start to understand.
As for my screen name I'd rather be of an unknown nature than a know it all Hog.
This is a site for people to learn and bounce ideas around and have some fun too, not for someones personel soap box. Calling others names etc is unprofessional and petty behavior. I dont think we need to sink to that level here or resort to name calling and disparage others skills in order to make a point.
I'am through ..I've wasted enough time on Boss and his know it all attitude and name calling.
P.S. I am willing to accept an apology and start fresh with Boss if he desires.
I never acted like this was my "personel soap box."
I have nothing to appologize for.
You've shown your true colors here. Let the reader decide for themselves who they think is the a$$ here.Income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf. [Will Rogers]
Whatever you say Boss Hog,I'll be the bigger Man and apologize for offending you and to the readers for digressing off the subject.as far as true colors go and letting the readers decide and I'll use your profile quote "Ya wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you realized how little they did"
Is that what you think of us??
One thing I really miss of late is a warm lightly toasted, everything bagel with veggy cheese and alfalfa sprouts, thin slice of onion, in season a slice of tomato and then a hot cup of fresh perked by the bean with touch of creame for color. Magnificient break for lunch. Satisfied without the bulk and can finish out the day energized.
Hmmmm, this belongs over in the lunch thread.
"As for my screen name I'd rather be of an unknown nature than a know it all Hog."
I note that Madame Curie died from X-rays because she was handling something dangerous without knowing what she was doing. But it seems that for the most part, X-rays pass right on through without having much effect on the subject.
"This is a site for people to learn and bounce ideas around and have some fun too, not for someones personel soap box. "
Learning should be based on knowledge, should it not? In this series of your posts here, you have managed to convince me how little you have, while poo-poohing those who do and a sound practice based on experience. Not a couple experiences but the body of experience this industry has built up. You sound a lot like those folks who go to health talk forums with statements like, "Those doctors don't know anything. All you have to do is breathe deep and eat...I did it and now I feel fine!"
I got the impression you were the one who wanted his own soap box so you did well to apologize to Boss Hog.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Just to get in on all sides-
1. last time I lived in IL ('67) it snowed 37" in ONE night!
2. I've never bought a truss, build my own, last one was a 30" deep, short 21 foot span, tension/comp elements were 2' sch 40 pipe, webs 1" tube (comp)or 3/8 rod (tension) - probably couldn't afford those manufactured , but nail plates didn't work <G>.
"I was using a little sarcasm as far as the 6'' of snow...But then again I don't think you have a grip on reality either.. I am looking at our season snowfall totals and guess what its 12.7" again that's for the season as reported in our newspaper 3/20/03 which I would say is less than 6'' at any given moment during the season. As far as reality goes I am ahead of you."
A design based on evironmental conditions for ONE SEASON does not make for a design based on reality.
It takes much more than 6" of snow to close I-70 for a couple of days at a time.
A loot at one day record snowfalls in Kansas shows Russell 20", Salina 18", Topeka 18.7", Ulysses 25", Wamego 24", Kansas City 25".
And while Syracuse only had a max of 14" in one day they had a total of 40" on the ground at one time and that is proably the amount on the roof depending on wind and slope.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/wdl/climate/cok/indexcopy.asp?page=122
Certainly, you can design and build your own trusses.
If you fall into the perscriptive code, you can size the joists, rafters ... and fasteners from the code book.
If you are an engineer, you can size the members and fasteners from the NDS for Wood.
I can buy 2x4 and 2x6 timberstrand in 40' lengths for chords. I can buy 2x4 and 2x6 #2 DF or SYF for the rest of the parts. I can use plywood, glue and nails at joints.
Liability for a roof is identical to the liability for the rest of the house.
There are a lot of structural engineering books around. They cover trusses. A BS in engineering will help you read those books.
Will you save money sure. But you will have your wood lying around for weeks in the rain.
(Yesterday I designed a timber framed building 28x35. Frames 7' apart, 2 floors, largest members are 6x6. Total time 4 hours.)
Dad and I built our own trusses for a 20x40 building. They were 20 ft. We bought the materials from a truss builder. No1. and 2 southern yellow pine.2x4s. Exterior powder glue that you mix with water. and plywood for gussets. 1/2 inch. We used my radial arm saw and laid everything out on my garage floor with a pattern truss. I think it was 5/12 pitch. Two gable trusses and 19 others. We made them exactly like they made them at the truss factory. They were perfect. It was great bonding between my Dad and me and we thoroughly enjoyed it. Downside we only saved approx. $200-300 dollars. Since yours is thirty feet you will have to make sure they are speced properly and use right materials. They will be heavier also. It was a great experience for us.
Well, Sonny, I guess you've got your money's worth here tonight.
I have almost always lived in isolated areas where trusses are not available. There are three times in my history that i have built trusses because the job was done better with truss than stick - unique design.
But I have never considered myself to have saved any money doing it myself. On the one I priced with a truss plant, it was maoinly the freight that drove my decision.
When you say that you can build them for $40 instead of $80, I have to assume that you are valueing your labour at $0.00, Is that right?
on another one I may have saved about fifty bucks but only because I had a hundred of those 18"-21"plywood offcuts from previous roofs saved back. If I'd bought the ply for gussets, it would have been fiftyu bucks the other way.
I can't see any dollar savings in buiolding your own trusses.
Excellence is its own reward!
If you're building your own, the inspector will probably want an engineer's stamp on the plans -- something that usually comes automatically with factory-built trusses.
Note also, when computing DIY prices vs. factory, that in many cases, factory-built use KD stress-rated lumber. You can't necessarily use the same design for #2 common lumber, unless an engineer says it's OK.
The results of this subject in a thread reminds me of drywall posts.
To all,
It isnt really something to be practiced at home . The biggest word being liability . I dont know how anyone could really recomend that a DIY even think about it . A frame carp with experience yes , but only with a lot of roof experience and then only simple trusses. There is not enough profit in them to take on risk.
Tim Mooney
drywall liability? The only liability is an idiot who thinks he knows everything.
The reason I mentioned drywall posts to this post is the different array of answers .
Liability is an issue contained in this post with a DIY making trusses .
Diy'er building own common trusses .
It was a separate paragraph entitled to all under that heading. I guess it would have been easier if it would have been two separte posts for you to understand. Dont tie the first sentence to the second paragraph.
Tim Mooney
My two sentences were separate.
Tim,
I've ignored your posts in the past. Most of the time you have nothing positive to say you just take up space. I realize there are a lot of DIY'rs out there who shouldn't be allowed to touch a tool but look at all the clueless fools who have computers. One day computers will be a major part of everything in life including how you put a house together. Computerized tools? Look out!
The precentage of home owners who are dumb DIY'rs is far less then the percentage of dumb people in the construction trades. We've seen and heard of plenty of examples of shady work. We even saw plenty of examples in the crane business.
Just because you think you know the answer to a question doesn't mean the person asking doesn't deserve an accurate answer. We are all here to learn and we all deserve to know why. These lame responses of you are too stupid let a pro do it are just an example of ignorance. Explaining why would probably help a lot of pros who need it.
That's cold man, simply cold.
You misunderstood what he said when he first said it, and then after he explained it.
On you first response you said >>> "The only liability is an idiot who thinks he knows everything."
On that we can agree.
Trusses.....ugh. The species I've been seeing from the 3 local plants these days have been of the firewood variety. Wain so bad, the truss plates are hanging teeth in the air, some plates look like the never went thru the rollers. Ever see the set of guidlines they send? Spreader bars, setting one truss at a time, blah, blah, blah...then they back up to a job, and drop 60 trusses in one big boom on the ground off the back of the truck...yeah right.
This was a very cold winter....I saw the center of bottom co rds rise off the top plates an inch.....taped joints breaking everywhere, nail pops.....If you ask me, the quality of homes went down when factory built trusses came along, and carpenters lost skills in roof cutting, turned framing into grunt work. Yeah they are faster and more profitable for us, but sticked is better. 2 x 6 ceilng rafters don't pull off the top plate.
I have to agree a little with you about roof framing skills being lost to many "carpenters" (guys with hammers?). None the less, trusses allow for lots more options in floor plan and have even more advantages in larger buildings.
I built little (20' wide) barn with used homemade trusses and they stood the test of a 5' snow fall. Maybe I was just lucky! I'd never build large trusses myself.It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
"I have to agree a little with you about roof framing skills being lost to many "carpenters" (guys with hammers?)."
I realize a lot of skills have been lost with changes in home construction. But I don't think that's a valid arguement for not using trusses, panelized walls, etc.
Lots of skills have been lost. How many of you know how to build and maintain an outhouse? Or buy stock from a lumberyard to make your own window frames and trim with hand planes? Where are all the companies who made vacuum tubes for TVs?
The necessity for some skills changes with time. But I don't think that speaks badly of the people who change with the times and learn new skills.There are two rules for ultimate success in life: (1) Never tell everything you know.
Maybe a little on subject and off, this is too hilarious not to tell, but a guy I know, was building a garage, got a truss quote and got the specs back with the quote and thought two things
1. WHAT, they want how much money?!
2. WOW, I've got their secret specs, I'll do it myself
He called me up with this revelation that he would build his own, and go buy "those nail plate thingies and smash it all together with a hammer." I was ROFLMAO
He also has a dirt track race car and get this he wants to park it the attic, he ended up stick building and left a hole large enough for a car to get through in the future. No, I'm not lying.
I told him I want to pull out a life insurance policy on him :)
I agree with you Boss. As I said, I'd wouldn't build trusses myself.
To me, that doesn't negate a slight feeling of loss about some of the old ways.
Oh, I know how to build and maintain and outhouse! Bet some of you guys thought lime was just for mortar...........It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
I'm not sure which part you are referring to. I will admit he hit me on a bad day but he had responded to one of my drywall posts a while back in a way I did not appreciatte (I even recall you responding to it) and I haven't cared for a lot of his repsonses.
However, I do feel that a lot of people come here with sincere questions but with obvoius lack of knowledge and get hit pretty hard. Maybe his mistake was prefacing it with DIY'r. But I think it was a geniune question and I would like to know the reasons myself. If anything to gain knowledge to help convince a friend or neighbor (or myself) the reasons not to diy something like this.
Anyway, you are probably right I need to relax and come back later.
"he had responded to one of my drywall posts a while back in a way I did not appreciatte (I even recall you responding to it) and I haven't cared for a lot of his repsonses."
Im learning more all the time . You are carring a grudge that you should have taken care of in that post. Open that thread back up and address it to me , we are high jacking this thread. I will give you all you want . Gentleman like of course .
Tim Mooney
OK so I doubled my whamy. Sorry about turning this thread in the wrong direction.
So what about stick framing. Wouldn't that be an option? Seems this would be a common practice for a detached garage.
"So what about stick framing. Wouldn't that be an option? Seems this would be a common practice for a detached garage."
Most garages require a beam with a post in the middle in order for it to be stick built. Its normal practice in a basement or lower level garage. Usually a garage has dimensions of something like 24x24, so half of that can handle lumber as joices depending on the load above. You can use a laminated beam with out a post that is designed for the load. You can find plenty of books for framing stick built.
Tim Mooney
"The precentage of home owners who are dumb DIY'rs is far less then the percentage of dumb people in the construction trades."
I knew you had some kind of problem but it wasnt clear what it was until you typed more. I never called anyone dumb , but you have your panties in a wad over what you thought I said . I thought I was being very nice . I speculate you have no respect for a pros brains from what you said and I tend to agree with your statement or we would be doing something that makes more money, instead of a trade that gains self satisfaction. I respect your thoughts , if you look at it that way .
" I've ignored your posts in the past. Most of the time you have nothing positive to say you just take up space."
I do a lot of visiting on here . Maybe Ive been doing too much . I appreciate you calling my attention to it . But on the other hand Im spending my time responding to an insult that has no merit because you cant understand my post . You took an insult off what I said and I never meant a hint as to what you thought. Seems we are both taking space right now.
"One day computers will be a major part of everything in life including how you put a house together. Computerized tools? Look out!"
That sounds like an insult to all the pros here.
"Just because you think you know the answer to a question doesn't mean the person asking doesn't deserve an accurate answer."
Now thats a decent statement . Liability . Sometimes we say , "you need a plumber" , "you need an electrician" . A DIY needs a truss guy. I answered the title of the thread. We have discussed before why there are not books available at Taunton on the subject . The popular belief was liability. I have never heard Boss tell someone how to build a truss . Not one time . Your statement reflects me wanting to know how to do the surgery on my knee.
"These lame responses of you are too stupid let a pro do it are just an example of ignorance..
There you go again . I wasnt responding to a pro. You need to reread the whole post right now as you have taken every thing I have said out of context.
Sir , I can live with my faults , but Im really wondering about you. You openly call someone on this forum ignorant ? That comes under the rule of personal attack. Are you Larry's brother?
Tim Mooney
"Are you Larry's brother? " LOL
Tim, the first part of your message was vague and referred in general to a drywall post one of which I had posted a while back and you responded in a way that was insulting. So I probably did misunderstand the rest of your message and really should have left it alone since there wasn't any information about trusses in it. I usually don't respond this way but I am a bit annoyed at the insults towards DIY'rs.
"These lame responses of you are too stupid let a pro do it are just an example of ignorance.. "
Sorry, my apologies that was mistyped. What I meant to say was sometimes you guys respond to DIY'r as being stupid. I have never thought any of the pros here stupid, in fact more than appreciatte a lot of them for their help. But I don't think DIY'rs are stupid either just ignorant of the trade. I will admit to being one but I am learning.
Anyway, long day and I should have just ignored you. Maybe it's that Saddam character is bugging me. LOL
Link me that drywall post as I cant find it .
Tim Mooney
Tim,
I haven't gotten the search on this thing to work well for me either. But to be honest, I overeacted to this and would rather move on and not dwell over it. My fault and no big deal. I wasn't really concerned about that previous issue. I was attempting to make a point that DIY'r deserve a bit more than I think they (we) get here sometimes. But my head wasn't screwed on right that day so instead I messed things up. For that I apologize.
Steve
Accepted .
Tim Mooney
I know you guys hate metal (except in your trucks & tools) but if i was building my own truss I'd sure look at using metal ... JMHO
I hate those metal plates in trusses, they dull the sheet out of my carbide tipped blades. It seems those idiots in the factory always seem to put them right in the way of where I have to cut. Gine me the plywood gussets anyday.
I think it's insane to think a factory built truss is far superior to a site built one. For the most part in residential contstruction they are 2x4's and metal plates, both of which can be purchased. Ever see a truss guy have to field repair one of the engineering f-ups? The use a clamp press to press those plates back in....big deal.
Yeah Keith, don't like them little metal chips an' bits of carbide get thrown in my face either!
I built my own trusses and glued and screwed nice big gussets to really carry the load. My biggest problem was that the drywall screws kept snapping off, so I found that if I hammered them in they didn't break as easily. But then one broke when I hit it and put my eye out.
Edit:
This wasn't really for Danny, I can't see well with only one eye.
Edit:
I meant this wasn't for Barry0. My eye got put out you know.
Edited 3/21/2003 8:00:05 PM ET by markh128
Edited 3/21/2003 8:01:56 PM ET by markh128
LOL.
Excellence is its own reward!
I built a 44x32 clear span gambrel roof truss building. The plans originally included building my own 32' clear span scissor gambrel trusses. 2x6 top and bottom chords, and considerable webbing. Plywood gussets...glued and screwed. But I don't think the official plans called for bolts.
I figured I could build these for about $110 in lumber...I planned on laying them out on my second floor deck upstairs....you know, build that jig and just go to town.
Well, I priced out the trusses...and bought them for about $210 each I think. (23 of 'em) And they came in two pieces...as they were 16' from top plate to outside peak. SO I got to put them all together...one at a time...alone. Each piece weighed about 100 pounds or so...and they were big and awkward.
Anyways, took me about 30 hours to cut all the gussets (3/4" OSB), drill all the holes (had to put 20 3/4" bolts in each truss!!!)...so I figured it was like building me own! LOL
I think I might still be building those if I did it myself...LOL.
You are talking about saving maybe $700 or so? How long do you estimate it will take to build the trusses? Do you have layout space? Will they sit in the weather (rain) for awhile? Sit flat someplace so they don't warp?
I'd buy them and maybe worry about setting them yourself without a crane...if you can find a pile of friends. I could never have got my trusses up without some kind of machinery...the $756 for 7 hours of crane time is a check I shall always remember writing...but I had a HUGE smile on my face when I stood underneath those trusses!
I did build my own for my 10' span gambrel roof playhouse...that was my practice building before I built the real house. They came out nearly perfect I thought.
I know some folks who did build there own 32' clear span scissors like these...I guess I'm too soft for that.
What's the pitch for the span? Will they come in one piece?
Here's a question for you. How much will it cost to forget about trusses and just stick frame it? I would compare that price to the price of trusses.
Where I live, garages come under inspection from the building department and they just don't want site built trusses period!
To use trusses, an engineer's report must accompany them and they must be apperoved by the building department in advance of installation after they've been delivered. This done to insure an adequate roof and to protect against liability. Inspectors just don't want to deal with site built.
From:
http://www.woodtruss.com/faqsitebuilt.htm
HAND BUILT TRUSSES
Question: I am building a new shop that is 30 ft x 32 ft. I need to free span the 30 ft dimension. Where can I get load chart that recommends lumber size and strategic locations of the angle braces to support the free span? I am going to field erect the trusses and stick build them on the building.
Answer: Although we are called the Wood Truss Council of America, we only represent Metal Plate Connected Wood Trusses (MPCWT). We recommend using trusses designed and built by a truss manufacturer. You can find a list of members in your state on our web site http://www.woodtruss.com.
Hand-built trusses are certainly an option, but the local code official may require “proof” the trusses will work. This generally means an engineer will be needed to provide calculations and a professional stamp or seal. If this occurs, your hand-built trusses will most likely end up costing considerably more in time, money and aggravation. MPCWT trusses usually come with engineered calculations and a seal as part of the truss package.
Mid West Plan Service has a publication titled “Designs for Glued Trusses”, which includes information on hand-built trusses. The truss designs listed in this publication have very simple configurations and may not meet your design requirements. In addition, the publication has not been revised to account for the most recent changes in lumber design values. Mid West Plan Service is located in Ames, Iowa (1-800-562-3618).
The book described is available for $10 at:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/desforgluedt.html
Look at Midwest Plans service for plans for trusses and they have a book for 800 truss designs. Do a search on Yahoo. Excellent resource for ag plans.