A local drywall co. gives me a quote for three rooms – rocked and spackled. Seems like a decent price, not a lot of fat. I don’t negotiate the #. They get material delivered (about 50 sheets 12′, half 48″ half 54″)and the crew comes afternoon of day 1. 3 man crew working one man short. They don’t get much done and return next day with all 3. I’m working in the area and notice at least 3 times they all go downstairs at the same time for a “cigarette” break, in the van. Everybody’s moving in slow motion, not impressive coordination. One fairly new helper that always seemed to need a good push to keep him going. Supposed to finish the rock – no can do. They come back day three and finish by about 1.
They ran out of rock and used a few boards I had on site (with my permission). I talk to the owner about an adjustment, and he said he doesn’t want to pay for my rock, claims the reason the job took so long is because I had put foam insulation on some of the walls, and that together with them using longer screws was a big deal so we’re even. He said they should have been done 6-8 hours faster.
The crew were generally decent and I have no complaints about the quality of the work. Frankly, it was as good as or better than what I would have done. But this nonsense of blaming the extra time on the insulation when the crew was smoking and jerking around irks me.
What is the acceptable protocol for telling somebody that his crew needs some attention, and less smoke breaks? Or does everyone feel it’s more like just let him find out on his own? (I’m not going to say anything about them but I really had to bite my tongue when we were on the phone.)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations – New Construction – Rentals
Replies
You might think you look like a jerk for saying something. But they're the jerks for draggin their butts and trying to pawn it off on you. I'd tell the guy. Next time they might have their acts together.
Wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom!
Hey Gunner;
I was working from the bottom up, so I got to you last. I think I'll get the message to bossman - one way or the other. Times like this, I wish I could be a little more like Mooney - just say it straight up. I worry about things like people's feelings. Call me silly.
Don K.
im thinkin if they were all goin in the van together for a smoke break they were smokin them "funny" ciggarettes.
did you get the scent of burnin rope by any chance?
not tryin to judge by any means but it could be worse, i have worked on jobs where people were smokin crack? in the porta john. i removed myself as quick as i could!
I've never worked on a job where the drywall/plaster guys haven't taken "herbal" ciggerette breaks, even their boss would join in.Never had to complain about thier work or their price."Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all." Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881)
Hey Don, I guess I'm a little slow tonight, but I'm not fully getting this.
You got a quote from the DW guys, they did the job and it was done well enough.
They used some of your rock to do their job.
Took them about a full day longer than maybe it should have.
Unless they were paid hourly, I'm not getting why the extra day is an issue. What was the quote for?
For their use of your material, wouldn't that be a back charge, or were materials not part of the quote either?
Again, just not getting it. You got a quote from a sub. they did the job. Pay them the quoted amount less the cost of your board they used, no?
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
I'm pretty much with philarenewal, maybe (or maybe not) for different reason. Conflict is never a good thing on a job and for a couple of sheets of drywall, I'd eat the cost and get on with progress. Though others may not recognize it, you'll know you are the bigger person for it. As for them smoking weed (c'mon, we ain't dumb) and dragging their ####, that's their buisness. They bid a job and got it done, a little late but hey, what's new about that? If you make an issue of the smoking, dragging or the drywall, it will eventually fall back on you. Just be the bigger person and get the job done. Next time you need a drywaller, call someone else.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted,
We've never "met" before, but I appreciate your point of view. I'm happy with the work that was done so far, including the first coat of mud. I am not looking for a fight here.
I wish I knew the boss well enough to talk to him on the side. The extra rock was not that much $$$, actually, I probably spent more than that on beer and coffee. Just irritated. the extra time is meaningless to me. To the boss it means he's losing money.
One of the workers said the boss is only interested in "the almighty dollar". His attitude seems to support that a little. It looks to me like I made a good deal, he made a bad one. He would have a little more support if he was a little less aggressive in fighting over the 4 sheets of rock.
Don K.
Don -
Since you don't have any problems with the cost of the extra rock or the extra time, you should probably let it go.
This would be a little like talking to someone about the behavior of their kids or spouse. You mean well, but unless you're very close to them, they'll probably see you as a busybody and tell you to mind your own business.
Phila -
You got the picture pretty good. Normally I would expect a back charge in my favor. It's not big $$$ but still a couple bucks. At least I'm entitled to an apology or a thank you. Am I going to start an arguement over my rock? No, I don't think so.
At least after reading the responses here, I know I ain't too far off base.
Don K.
Pay them the quoted amount less the cost of your board they used, no?
And let him know that you saved him the time and cost of the gas and lost labor to go and pick up the additional material.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I have no use for anyone getting high when they're NOT on the job, much less when they Are on the job.
Damned straight I'd say something. Those clowns would never set foot on my job again.
It could be that the contractor isn't aware that these guys are getting high on his jobs. He might be happy to know, in order to protect himself from liability.
A. It has a stamp on it.
Damned straight I'd say something. Those clowns would never set foot on my job again.
So Boss, we'll put uyou down as undecided, okay?
Don K.
I find my self in the crowd here and thats never meant .
I dont really care if the job took a day to long . Happens to me all the time . Whats the big deal? Everyones house is their own emergency. That doesnt make it yours. I always liked what MS always says ," its their dream , let them put their money into it not yours. " That wasnt meant for this problem but it sure as h^ll relates in strong principle.
The owner is the one venting and he is also the one in the wrong . You can eat the two sheets if its the end of the job but he still wont be happy if that whizzed him off to act unfair. You could make mention if this is just the start of the job. Then telling him no would definately be in order. He will be billed whether he pays it or not . Although two sheets is small change for down the road and get away from him which is where I would want to be . I would want paid and be done with him with both smiling . That would be the ultimate . That would be worth two sheets to me . I want the h^ll away from people with low scruples.
Tim
Tim
Odd that you found this thread. I just got done writing to Gunner and talking about your style of straight talking, then I go through the posts and find yours.
The extra money isn't the point, as you understood. It's more the point of the attitude about the extra time. I understand the boss wants to make money and if he's already losing in his book, he doesn't want to make it deeper by paying me. I think he's just lost the forest and the trees.
Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here for a few people about the value of $$$. I just got back fromn a three hour birthday dinner and I'll have to figure it out better tomorrow. :-)
Don K.
I did a free warranty call Friday.
I did a handyman type job replaceing plumbing fixtures and reworking windows.
While you are here ;
Look at the washer and dryer combo.
The motor is on its last bearing by the way it sounds and I opened it up and verified it by showing it to her. The unit is 12 years old . My cost on the motor is 176.00 before labor. I offered at my cost because her only income is SS. I also called the home center and offerd my discount for free for a new one 650.00 over and under unit. I beat her sears price by 325.00 installed total bill compared.
I advised buying the new one .
I send her a statement 30 days net for the whole job and she calls me .
She wants me to check her HVAC unit because she hasnt turned it on since last year.
I tell her thats the shape there all in and to just turn it on . If she has any problems to call me .
Anyway, I get there Friday and shes pizzed but maintained. Im quisical. The door on the washer is warped 1/4 inch . So I unwarp it , lol. She says its a pos and she wishes she had her old one back. I reminded her it was her decision and she says yea but you helped.
She also says I never came to check her unit .
Ill do that right now , lol.
She had a difference of 21 degrees between room air and supply air. I told her 20 degree split was normal and it was doing its thing. Even explained it how it worked. Checked her filter and explained the importance of that .
No charge but shes still pizzed and says she needs to leave for a hair appointment . Abruptly.
Again its not the money, but I wont go back and thats not even that bad a story. It was enough to upset me and its not worth that to me . Yes I should have marked it up and mebbe should have charged a service call . I still pass on the idea of a service call , but I screwed up not marking up . I didnt and shes still pizzed.
Another one with no scruples.
Tim
Just so's we can all be clear... you're saying they were getting stoned, right?
Glassy eyes, lazy demeanor, no effort, going downstairs together like a bunch of high school girls to the bathroom...If I had to guess, yes, they was gettin' stoned. That's what my helper said right away. Me, I'm a bad one to ask, never intentionally smoked pot in my life. But I did not smell it on them either.
Don K.
Sounds like they took three breaks during the day. That seems reasonable.
Who did the takeoff on the material? If it was the owner, I'd raise a stink, tell everyone I came across that he can't count and his crew was lazy, and then not demand a rebate. It will come back to him later.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie -
Yeah, there were three breaks, and that was before lunch. Normally I wouldn't care if they took three or six. But when the boss thinks they are working for him and they aren't, that's not right.
"Tell everyone"...Funny you say that. The guy that referred them to me called and asked how they worked out. It was last week so I said that I would call back when they were done. Odd thing was he asked if the boss was an A-hole. (What did he know he never told me?) After the way the argued over the extra $50 worth of material they used, I would have to say yes.
Don K.
no..
they cut your throat...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Tough one, especially with your personal quote in your profile.
I'm not sure where I'd come out, but I'd consider mentioning to the boss that I'd hestitate before using that crew again.
If I decided to say something (and ultimately, it would depend on my read of the boss - probabl;y shouldn't but that's reality) I'd use the classic criticism approach: sandwich the bad between 2 slices of good: The work they did was satisfactory, yiou weren't impressed with the crew's work ethic, and the price was really good.
Fighting Ignorance since 1967
It's taking way longer than we thought
Bookmark this one. I think we're in agreement. <G>
As far as the personal quote, I wonder how that should be applied to "business dealings"? Let's debate that one another time. I'm too tired now. Another <G>.
Don K.
Don
From what you wrote, the 2 guys worked a half day on day 1; 3 guys worked a full day the 2nd day; and then a half day on day 3. With a bunch of long smokin breaks.
Their boss whines that they took too long, won't pay for your extra rock. Says your insulation slowed his guys down.
Possibly the workers were tryin to cover their butts for taking "too long" by saying the insulation was in the way. Maybe their boss thinks they were there 3 full days with all 3 guys. Not your problem except that he won't pay for your extra rock.
Did they "cost" you anything by taking 3 days (other than the extra rock)?
Probably you should not use this guy again. In his mind he lost some money with you and will be looking to make it up on your next job with him.
Don, I've read all the replies and I'm somewhere in the middle.
First, I need to understand about that foam. How many sq ft of foam did you do? Did the contractor know that they were installing over foam? If not, you do need to make an adjustment too.
As for the smoke breaks....they are drywall hangers. I'd smoke the weed too if I had to do that every day of my life!
blue
Blue -
Rough numbers, about 500 square feet of foam. All studs, joists and nailers were marked with black magic marker so they didn't have to search for them.
I told the owner before they started, he wasn't thrilled but didn't ask for an upcharge. When the crew got there, the lead guy griped about 5 minutes. I told him if he had any problems, let me know. The only time he came to me was when they ran out of longer screws, and I ran down and bought some more.
After 2nd day of work, owner asked for a check. Sent me a copy of the original proposal showing the payment, same cost. Said nothing about price changing because of insulation. Only when I mentioned insulation use did he get pushy.
Don K.
If you knew the owner extremely well (like, he's your brother) and knew that he would be fair with his employees based on anything you told him, I would share my suspicions. Otherwise, I don't think you should share what you don't KNOW.
-Don
The price is the price. I would make an exception only for something out of the ordinary. If these guys were pros they would plan on some unforseen stuff. Pay them the agreed amount minus the cost of your boards
Actually, they did plan on some unforeseen stuff. I noticed that they had a bundle of woodlath delivered because it was all old work and they might need to straightensome stuff out. They never opened the bundle. We had gone over stuff pretty well. They found two nailers missing (one was a 3" piece). They got off easy.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals