Do I need to apply permit for the change of plumbing, electronic and gas when doing kitchen remodeling?
lily88
| Posted in General Discussion on
I am planing to hire a general contractor to do the kitchen remodeling. In the process, the places of refrigerator, oven and the range will be changed. And we also will add a hood above the range. And the electronic range will be replaced by a gas range.
Based on all these plan, the plumbing, electronic and gas line around the kitchen will be changed. Do I need to apply permits for these change?
From the government request, it seem that it is necessary to apply a permit for any change of plumbing, electronic or gas line in house. An experienced house inspector once told me the permits for these change are very important because they are related with insurance and government building codes.
But when I ask the general contractors (at total, 4-5 contractors), they always told me it is No need to apply permits for these change. The reasons they mentioned are permit and inspection will make the project term longger or their costermers didn’t apply permits for these kind of change. Also they told me if I don’t apply permits for these change, the government will have NO evidence to prove these changes happening in my house because the goverment don’t have any map or records for plumbing, electronic and gas line in any single family house.
I am confused. Should I apply permit for these change or not? What the 4 contractors told me is right or not?
If no contractor will agree to apply permits for these change, can I apply the permits by myself(some one mentioned I can apply permits by way of “homeowner permit “)?
Thanks
Replies
In Calif. a general contractor is in violation of the law for working without permits. It sounds like the contractors you talked to are just trying to save themselves a hassle. If permits are required insist that the contractors get them. That is their job, not yours. If they won't get required permits, get another contractor who will. From what the contractors told you I'd guess that permits are required.
Permits required
Depending on what State, and/or Jurisdiction of the State you live in, permits may be required, and if so, any installation without a Permit would be in violation of State Law. The easiest way to know is to check with your local Building Department. You can usually locate them through the Planning Department.
As far as the Contractors telling you it slows down the job, or no one will know the difference...give them the boot. Normally those guys have something they don't want an inspector to see as it doesn't meet code, or some other reason that is not in your best interest.
The permits, if required, won't add up to much over $100, if that much. That's pretty cheap insurance to assure the job is done safely, and meets code requirements. Especially dealing with gas, and electricity; you want to be sure the job was done right, and your family isn't at risk because some 4WD Contractor with the dog in the back of his truck decided he could make more money by cutting corners.
The reality about the permit is that the government wants you to have the proper work done, and ALSO, it wants to charge you the maximum property tax it can. Of course, it emphasizes the safety but not the tax, and many people prefer to follow the law.
4 to 5 builders all told you that you don't need a permit. That depends on the town hall practice, what the builders know about the town hall and what the builders see in your home. In a complete remodel, many past installations may have to be upgraded to meet the present building rules. This means the builders have to tell you and charge you more, which also can mean you give up on the remodel or look for another builder. I think that is why you were told not to get the permit. Your home may be in such a condition that you may need more upgrades than simply adding/rerouting services for the kitchen.
I'd say you be upfront with the builders. Tell them you want more protection than their word, but you are willing to listen to their explanation. Ask for more of their time to explain the building process to you. Ask for their insurance, and call the insurance company to verify. Put the explained building process in the contract and, if possible, check yourself. If 4-5 builders are unwilling to do that much for you, it's time to look for another set of builders, because luck has not been with you finding these guys.
The most important and first step you need to take is--as one of the other posters suggested--to contact your local building department. Go to the source, get the facts; then you'll be in a far better position to know whether a contractor is a potential cheat.
If he's willing to cut corners in regard to codes and legal requirements, you probably don't want him on your job.
Locality by locality, there's a wide variation in licensing and permitting requirements. In some areas, electrical, plumbing and building are each a separately-licensed trade, and a "general contractor" would not be allowed to do everything required for your job.
But you won't know any of that for sure until you talk to your local building department, whether city, county or state.
Thanks for all suggestions.
I have checked the 4 contractor's licenses. They are licensed not in the city of my house, but licensed in other city. Is that the reason that they cannot apply the permit for my house?
That depends on whether your city has a licinsing requirement or not.
And, keep in mind that whatever license(s) they have may not cover all the types of work that are needed in your project. (Electrical, gas, plumbing, building.)
Again, if you want correct information, you MUST call your local building department. They can tell you what, if any, licensing and permits are required, and will have a list of licensed contractors if licensing is required.
While you will hear alot of posts saying "You only need a permit so duh gubernment can get more money". That is not true.
The reason why we have building codes, and a permit process that checks construction against these codes, is not to generate income... it's to protect the people of the community.
It used to be people only lived in a home, on average, 5-7 years. The actual lifespan of a house can be well over 100 years if taken proper care. That's alot of people under that roof. Your building department is trying to make sure any changes to the house are done to at least the minimum standard for safety, and now sometimes even energy efficiency.
Gas, electric, and water are nothing to take lightly. Problems on any one of these could damage or destroy your home. You hire your guys to do the work, the building inspector is on YOUR side to make sure the work was done right.
When you look into an electrical box, do you know if it was wired to an established minimum safety standard? That's why you need to get the permit.
Plus, anyone who buys your house after you could make a case that all unpermitted work be inspected before purchase anyway.