Had new house roofed in November with architectural shingles. I assumed the plastic ‘Do Not Remove’ strip between the shingles was just for shipping and was removed for installation, but the roofers didn’t. Is this correct?
Asking because we haven’t had much sun or warmth, but have had a lot of wind since the roof was put on. The roofers have been back once to fix shingles that blew off and the past couple of days we’ve lost even more in roughly the same area of the roof.
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Replies
Sounds like they nailed their shingles to high, if you miss the double layer of the laminate archtechural shingle it will greatly reduce it's resistance to wind.
Or the nails are blown through the shingle.
When people don't know what you're about,
They put you down and shut you out.
That strip keeps the shingles from sticking together in the event that they get hot while still packaged. Once they are laid up, they are then offset from the stickdown tar strip. I have seen many roof jobs (usually HO) where those plastic ribbons are everywhere.
<(usually HO) where those plastic ribbons are everywhere.>
Yeah - why is that?
I imagine that they've also torn all the tags off their mattresses.
Forrest
As far as I understand it, those little cellophane strips stay on. I used to strip them off before installation and was told to leave them because they do something good--don't exactly remember what--something like keeping the oil in the bituminous seal down strip from soaking through the shingle or something. Anyway, leave them on.
There's no harm in removing the strips, but no need to, and removing them creates unnecessary blowing trash. They just prevent the shingles from sticking together in shipping. When the shingles are layed, the strip no longer falls on top of the sticky strip on the shingle below. (If you have a couple of spare shingles, lay them out like on a roof and see where the strips fall.)
Self-sealing shingles need at least a few warm days to seal down properly. Usually this will happen even in winter (around here) when a few bright, sunny days warm up the roof (especially if dark color).
But laking sufficient warm weather it's not unusual to lose a few shingles. The installers should warrant for this, through the first winter at least.
Seems I recall once reading on the wrap of a bundle of shingles specific bold print saying not to remove the cellophane strip, hence an agreement with Danno that there is probably more involved than just a storage concern.
every court needs a jester
Think about it: Which is clearer -- "Do not remove" or "You can remove this strip if you want to but you don't need to and removing it makes a big mess and gets the neighbors upset"?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
no reason for leaving it on. They just print that to save all the novices from wasting their time or even calling the company to waste tech time telling them to leave it on.
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Your answer is your lack of sun and warmth.
The shingles need to be heated up to activate the glue. Once that happens, everything will seal together.
Some roofers don't like to roof in the winter months for just that reason.
And the plastic strips can stay on- they don't effect anything once the shingles are insatlled.
I roof in the winter but only with Chateus ( Architechiual ) I see roofers pulling the plastic of the back of the shingles and seems to me that if you were supposed to do that it would say on the bundle...plus its just more of a mess and more time on the roof..Dont get me wrong I am very picky about my roofs and always will be but I do like to save time and the home owner a little money...
"I see roofers pulling the plastic of the back of the shingles ..."Wouldn't you aree that the guys you see doing this are fishermen, farmers, and carpenters who just happen to be laying shingles? They damn sure aren't roofers!
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As everyone has told you, the plastic strips are not the problem.
I would be worried about the shingles blowing off. The self sealing aspect of the shingles helps to keep the shingles from blowing off but it should not be necessary except in very high winds > 50 mph. This is especially true of new laminated shingles which don't bend very much when cold. I think that this must be the result of poor nailing. As one poster said, the roofers nailed the shingles too high. This is not hard to do as the area where the shingles are double thickness is not big.
BTW, it is commom for the shingles on the north side of the roof to seal poorly at best, even in the summer. If the roof is steep, it will only get direct sun in the early morning or late evening in the summer. The north side will not seal in the winter in northern latitudes even on the sunniest day. If you have an exceptionally windy site you may have to put dabs of tar under the shingles. This was the old school technique before shingles were self sealing.
We've gotten some fairly strong gusts but I don't think anything in the 50mph range. I hadn't heard anything about nailing too high. If the roofers were at fault I would have assumed it was because they had their gun setting the nails too deep. The shingles we've lost have all been on the south-west side. We're more protected in the north.I guess I was thinking I'd just have to pay them to come back and put more shingles up. My bad luck for having too much wind and not enough warmth or sunshine to seal the shingles down. Or, should I expect them to come back and fix it?
They should fix for free any shingles that blow off in the first year, at least.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Can you get any digital photos up here of the damage, the shingles, and the nailing location?
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I should not let thios bother me so much, but there is NO WAY you should have to pay a dime for having these replaced!If the winds were 80-90 MPH. then your insurance should replace them.But there is every reason to believe that these guys just plain screwed up. Don't let them screw you.
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I am doing a large roof now, and I am about 1/2 done. Of the 600 sq of shingles nailed down not one has blown off. We are gutting alot of wind gusts as well.
When people don't know what you're about, They put you down and shut you out.
LOL, you've got those shingles trained to wait until you get paid to start blowing off, right?;)
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It takes time convincing the shingles to do that. People look at me funny when they see me talking to the pallets of shingles. :) When people don't know what you're about, They put you down and shut you out.
"I hadn't heard anything about nailing too high"
Laminated shingles are made in two pieces. These pieces lap each other in the middle and are glued together. The lap is about an inch wide. If you look at the short edge of a shingle you can see this.
The nails are meant to go through this double layer. Often there is a white line indicating where to put the nails. If you are careless or just in a rush it is easy to nail above the lapped area. This is no big deal if it is an occasional nail or if the roof seals up well in the heat.
It is not likely that the nail gun pressure could be set too high if you are nailing through the lapped area on the shingle. More often the nails need to be set with a hammer because they were not driven in far enough. If you nail through a single layer it is still unlikely to drive the nails though the shingles UNLESS you are nailing right above the lap. In this spot, especially in cold weather, the shingle can shatter. This area is especially vulnerable because it is near the top of the preceding course. Thus the top shingle is poorly fastened as is the course below.
Of course all this is speculation. If you can get the guy to come back and replace the missing shingles, I would be happy with that. Good luck. Maybe these "roofers" will learn a lesson.
get the guy to come back and replace the missing shingles
yes, and then he wonder for the next 15 or 20 years about all the rest of the shingles:o)
be did they, or didn't they?Will they or won't?If it ain't done right then sweet sleep I won't.
every court needs a jester
Once they've sealed down then there won't be any blow-off problems.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Unless he's on a ridge somewhere with funnelling winds banging on the 3 tab roof 24 hrs a day.
every court needs a jester
In which case nothing will save him.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
snort
every court needs a jester
The plastic strips have manufacture date/model/factory information for warranty purposes (at least on Certainteed). If the strip is gone, so is the warranty/recall information.
Leave them. Let the roofers warranty the (lack of) craftsmanship.
Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Why not get up there and check their work. It's not rocket sceince to lift a few shingles and take a peek at their nailing. If it is a sttep roof you can do this while still standing on an extension ladder. Report back with your findings.
Matt,Was not really looking forward to climbing up on the roof. Ever see 'Vertigo' with Jimmy Stewart? Enough of the shingles made it down intact to the ground other than the holes where the nails previously had been. There's a white line on the shingles. Some of the nails are in this line, but I'd say most are 1/2" to 1" above it. Would you say they were nailed too high?
"Some of the nails are in this line, but I'd say most are 1/2" to 1" above it."
If the nails go through the shingle where it is two layers thick, this is the right spot. Another thing you can check is whether there are any nail holes at the top of the shingles that have blown off. These holes would be made by the nails for the course above if it was nailed in the proper position.
Look at the back of the shingle, where are the nail holes? Do they penetrate both layers? When people don't know what you're about, They put you down and shut you out.
Another way of putting it would be - Is there signs of two rows of nails making holes in the shingle? one at the nail line and one near the top where the next up shingle should have been nailed thru it. 8-12 nails in all
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I concur with that statement.
He was wondering if the nails were to high, I gave him the easiest way to check. Flip the shingle over and see if the nails hit both layers. When people don't know what you're about, They put you down and shut you out.
No need to assume. The strip is for shipping and stoprage only so the shingles do not stick to each other in the package. once they offset upon installation, the strip does nothing.
The most common misunderstanding I see in roofing amoung do-it-yourselfers is wasting time removing that strip.
Now then - you called the installers "roofers"
If those were roofers I'm an astronaut! Nobody with an ounce of roofing experience will waste two seciond even thinking about removing those strips!
So my conclusion is that since they showed them selves to be something other than experienced roofers on this item, they didn't know a lot of other things. That lack of basic roofing knowledge is what is the source of you trouble.
Now I'm gonna read the rest of this thread. I'm enjoying it already...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Go back and re-read. The roofers DID NOT remove the strips, despite the HOs suggestion.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
You could be right. Now that I re-read, I'm more confused as to what the roofers didn't...Complicated sentence structure there.regardless of that - what the roofers did do was "something wrong"
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Come back down to earth, Piffin. The guys that did the roof job left the plastic strips on. I'm the one who was questioning removing it or not and I don't claim to be a roofer.
OK, Here I am.Are theese nails still in the shingle? Or are you reporting where they used to be?
In other wiords,did the shingles that came off tear out around the nail, leaving it in the roof, or did the nail come out along with the shingle?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Had new house roofed in November with architectural shingles. I assumed the plastic 'Do Not Remove' strip between the shingles was just for shipping and was removed for installation, but the roofers didn't. Is this correct?
short answer.....yes, no need to remove the strip.
The roofers have been back once to fix shingles that blew off..
as they should have.....what warranty did they give you?
and the past couple of days we've lost even more in roughly the same area of the roof
and they should come back and fix those as well......Have you looked at any of these blow-offs? I'm wondering if they fastened them with staples instead of nails... that might explain the blow-offs... I don't believe the manufacturer will warranty any of the install if done with staples....check the makers warranty label and /or install instructions........if staples are not involved then as stated check the location of the nails and the depth at which they are set, should be just flush with the shingle surface, too deep,or not deep enough, will cause problems....check some of what's come off to see where the nail holes are in relation to the nailing strip,typically two horizontal white lines across the shingle, which designate the nailing area. Post back with your findings.
Geoff
Speaking of nailing patterns on shingles, check out the picture on page 89 of the March issue of FH. The guy is all over the place.
Just to be sure: You said "new house". Is this a truely new house or just "new to you". Was this roofing over bare sheathing (with tarpaper, of course) or was it a "roof-over" on top of an existing layer of shingles?