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Discussion Forum

Do NOT stub out pex!!!!!!!!!

plumbbill | Posted in General Discussion on November 4, 2007 08:19am

Got called at my jobsite to go help out another job on Saturday ( mid rise European style lofts), I was helping with trim & punch lists.

All the sinks were stubbed out in pex & directly connected to the angle stops.

That looks like

, &

#38; they flop around.

Even cpvc would have been a better stub out, cause you can atleast make that square & rigid. Copper stubs is my weapon of choice.

Pex is fine to get from point “A” to point “B”, but damn, make sure your plumber stubs out in something that looks decent & is square to the wall.

“If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?” Benjamin Franklin

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Replies

  1. User avater
    McDesign | Nov 04, 2007 08:59pm | #1

    Haven't used it yet; is there a cute connection to a brass drop-ear elbow with a 1/2" NPT out?

    Forrest - gonna' do PEX next time

    1. User avater
      BillHartmann | Nov 05, 2007 12:48am | #4

      Some (it might be Oatley) makes a neat water outlet box.At rough in you install the box and it comes with a stop valve and flavors for pex, copper, and pvc.At trim out you install trim cover, connect the suplly tubes and open the stop valve..
      .
      A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

      1. User avater
        jonblakemore | Nov 05, 2007 07:31am | #19

        Are you talking about this? I've seen them with washing machines all the time but never a device like you describe for a sink.I'm assuming the sink boxes have no waste outlet? 

        Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

        1. User avater
          BillHartmann | Nov 05, 2007 09:05am | #20

          This is what I was thinking about.http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/showskus.asp?ctg=5&subctg=0&prodgrpid=507But they don't have a double. I guess that you need to use 2 for a sink.And one for refigerator or DW..
          .
          A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

          1. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Nov 05, 2007 10:15am | #21

            Man, I really hate finding out about this stuff AFTER I put up the drywall.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

            Also a CRX fanatic!

            If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts.  You nut, you.

          2. User avater
            jonblakemore | Nov 05, 2007 08:50pm | #23

            Thanks Bill. I can really see the benefit for behind the fridge and DW. 

            Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

          3. JohnT8 | Nov 05, 2007 10:13pm | #25

            Don't they have the washing machine boxes without a drain?  In which case, why couldn't you use that for sinks?

             

             jt8

            "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." --Voltaire

          4. User avater
            BillHartmann | Nov 06, 2007 12:02am | #26

            From the pictures som appear to not have a drain. But I am not sure..
            .
            A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

          5. JohnT8 | Nov 06, 2007 12:11am | #27

            IIRC, even the ones with drains have knock-outs blocking the drain, so I supposed you wouldn't  have to use the drain portion.  But then again, seems like those w/d deals are like $20, so not real cheap.

             jt8

            "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." --Voltaire

      2. brucet9 | Nov 06, 2007 10:17am | #31

        Is that stop valve replaceable 10 years on when it fails?
        BruceT

    2. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 01:10am | #5

      Yes there is.

      View Image

      http://www.blueridgecompany.com/image/child/6508

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

  2. User avater
    DDay | Nov 04, 2007 11:33pm | #2

    The pex I use, Stadler viega, has copper elbows that are about 10" in total length that you attach the pex to. One end is a pex fitting and the other is closed. You stub out like you normally would and during the finish you cut the closed copper end and sweat on your shut offs. The major downside of pex is the flex in the tubing when you don't want flex. The easy solution is to switch to copper at the stub outs, shower valves, etc.

    http://www.stadlerviega.com/pl.php?p=pureflow&s=products&c=Fittings&n=pexCrimpStubOutElbows

    They have other sizes, the website isn't updated.



    Edited 11/4/2007 3:36 pm ET by DDay

    1. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 01:17am | #7

      Those work great, & many companies make that style.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

  3. TBone | Nov 04, 2007 11:41pm | #3

    Your plumber stubs copper out square? What's his number?

    1. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 01:37am | #10

      425-277-6680

      & 206-248-9700

      That's my union, & company phone #'s

      On my jobs my plumbers know if they don't stub out square I will ride them & make them do it over.

      Problem I have right now is the 20 story condo I'm just starting, is that I'm in charge of the cast iron crew, the water boys are being led by someone else, I'm not sure if he's going to be a stringent as I am when it comes to these things.

      I'm sure the company is planning on pex stub outs, but next week I will start my push for either copper or cpvc.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

      1. davidmeiland | Nov 05, 2007 02:32am | #13

        >>I'm sure the company is planning on pex stub outs, but next week I will start my push for either copper or cpvc.

        Wouldn't there be something in the specs about that??

        1. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 02:37am | #14

          This is a bidder design job.

          Specs on these highrise condos are for fixtures only.

          Other than that the rest of the material is up to the contractor.

          "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

  4. davidmeiland | Nov 05, 2007 01:11am | #6

    I agree, PEX stubs were done on one of my jobs before I got there. Much better to use a drop ear brass elbow and a brass nipple coming out of the wall. Those copper sweeps suck, they are never rigid.

    1. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 01:41am | #11

      Depends on what kind of sweep.

      Some are made from soft copper, they tend to bend & look like ####.

      I like the rigid ones that are bent by a mandrel system.

      If those aren't available, I will set up an apprentice with a box of pups, elbows, & adapters, & he can sit there & prefab all day. It makes for a cleaner job in the end.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

    2. User avater
      DDay | Nov 05, 2007 04:33am | #15

      Try these hangers to get the pex rigid, they work great. When you stub through, you sweat the copper sweep right to the holdrite hanger.http://www.giftshomedecor.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=455379023http://www.holdrite.com/technical_pdfs/FinalCatalog9.pdf

      1. davidmeiland | Nov 05, 2007 05:01am | #16

        Seen plenty of those Holdrite straps but I still like the drop ear elbow better. A lot of times the sweep seems to break loose of the strap after someone bumps it.

  5. fingersandtoes | Nov 05, 2007 01:19am | #8

    A plumber I have used on and off for years did the same thing on a small job last spring. He was annoyed when I objected and offered to sleeve them with pieces of 3/4"pex. I made him replace them with copper.  It seems like every job now I run into some small decline in quality that I didn't anticipate. The pre-hung doors come with medite jambs- which replaced the finger jointed ones - which replaced the solid stock... what's next?

    1. davidmeiland | Nov 05, 2007 01:35am | #9

      >>It seems like every job now I run into some small decline in quality that I didn't anticipate.

      Man, that sure is the truth. My work life consists mostly of constant vigilance against that. If you turn your back for a minute, someone sneaks one in on ya'.

    2. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 01:42am | #12

      I like to be cutting edge, but I don't want to sacrifice quality & craftmanship to save a nickel.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

  6. JonE | Nov 05, 2007 05:30am | #17

    Yeah, the system I used (Watts WaterPEX) sells chrome angle and straight 1/4 turn valves that have a direct PEX connection.  The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw them was "Hey, that looks convenient, no need to use copper or solder fittings", then I realized that they will flop around, it's not bad if it's in a sink base or vanity cabinet, but running PEX out of the wall behind the crappier looks like, well, ####. 

    I used copper PEX ells with a copper plate flange that nails to a stud or the subfloor, works fine.  My plumber claims he can solder the angle stop to the copper with the PEX connected, so I'm gonna let him.  Odds are that I'd melt the PEX right off in the wall.  The ells are still a bit wobbly, though - not an ideal solution.  There's gotta be something better but I'll worry about that the next time I build a house.  Maybe in twenty years.

     

    1. plumbbill | Nov 05, 2007 06:17am | #18

      Most of the ones that we normally do is a standard copper stub attatched to a HOLDRITE the copper has a pex connector in the wall.

      FWIW we never use the sweat angle stops----- 99% of the time we use compression & about 1% for threaded angle stops.

      Dday in post 4 gave a link for some copper to pex stub outs.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

  7. BryanSayer | Nov 05, 2007 06:15pm | #22

    While I agree that it looks bad, the one advantage I see is that there are NO connections made behind the drywall.

    But still...

  8. JohnT8 | Nov 05, 2007 10:06pm | #24

    You don't like the Oatey products?

    View Image  View Image  View Image 

    jt8

    "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." --Voltaire

    1. User avater
      DDay | Nov 06, 2007 01:05am | #28

      The Symmons laudry boxes are much better than Oatey.

    2. ClaysWorld | Nov 06, 2007 04:04am | #29

      I used to like oatly but I was checking and all the new stock had something I don't like/won't buy.

      Made in China

    3. plumbbill | Nov 06, 2007 05:58am | #30

      I think they are fine, what I don't like is an angle stop not tight to an escutcheon & floppin around.

      Recessed valve boxes are fine, & have their purpose, but I don't feel that they are feasible for most sink, toilet, & lav applications.

      Sinks & lavs usually have a waste & vent pipe in the wall that would interfere with a recessed box.

      On my jobs (12 to 42 story condo's & hotels) I have a job wide standard that the water will be centered on the waste stub 8" spread just above the waste outlet.

      "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin

      1. McPlumb | Nov 07, 2007 04:00am | #32

        I would not want to use washer boxes under a sink either.

        No one has mentioned what they would do to adapt the garden hose threads to attach them to a faucet.

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