I have to replace the wood on these column bases. I am wondering if they look wrong, style wise, to anyone else. I can’t put my finger on it, but I don’t think these are right for the house. The porch deck (concrete) and the wall holding the deck are replacements (probably 1990 or so). So is the porch railing. The fluted columns appear to be original. Looking at some other houses in the neighborhood, I’d guess that these bases were originally brick, with the columns on top and a single rail of pipe connecting the bases.
Anyway, I also have to add handrails to the steps. What do people think will look the best overall, both for the column bases (the big box like things, not the little base immediately under the column) and the handrail?
You might have to zoom in to see the details of the bases. Do they have another name?
ps Large file warning.
Replies
from what I can see ...
the columns look like they were cut off and boxed out at one point.
my guess ... the original rotted from no venting ... these were added ... and rotted from the same no venting ... then were just cut off and the boxes were added. Now they're rotting.
Have a question .. I can't tell ... are the half columns on the house fluted or "flat" ...
third pic ... top ... above the tree branch ... looks to be non-fluted.
The bottom ... below the branch ... either have shadows or flutes.
If they are un-fluted ... that's my biggest clue the ones on the front aren't the original design. Is there the same boxed detail on those against the house?
Any similar houses on the street to compare with?
One pic also has a baluster that's spaced too tight ... leads me to think that has all been a "cheap fix" at one time.
Jeff
I'm on board with you.Those plinth bases are disproportionate to the columns and the mitred trims on themm are disproportionate to whatever they are trying to be doing. Like with a cabinet door, the top rail should be about 2-3/4" with side stiles 2" and base rail of 3-1/2" with lock joints instead of mitered. They got built the same height as the railing just because hey why not by somebody who had no idea what to do. They are also too wide for the columns
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Too wide for the columns is an interesting point. Maybe they were made wide to fit the railings.Anyway, all of the columns are fluted, and have loads of paint. We're going to strip the paint as part of this. I don't think they have been cutoff, based on how they look up close. That is, the flutes tail off, and no obviously bad fit. The columns next to the house are 1/2s, and the boxes are basically the same.I too, thought my neighbors columns looked nicer, but some of the profile stuff on mine does repeat, not that you can see it in the photos. With the round fluted columns, I'm not sure what to think. I sorta think they are original (but they could have been wrong then too - you should see how many of the doors are pressed into corners, totally screwing the door trim and architrave). Her house dates from the 1880s, ours is 1901.If any close up photos will help, let me know. And thanks to someone for making smaller versions for me.
? flutes tail off?you have stopped flutes?flutes that come to an end before reaching the base of the round column, right?
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i'm trying to place that certain style architecture, not that it is that specific..... kind of a bastardized prairie style... are you from the mid-west .... maybe chicago area. this would help with the a search for some answers , how old is the house?? . "expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 5/17/2005 6:00 pm ET by the bear
It is basically a four square, ie larger bugelow. Built in 1901 (Columbus Ohio), smack in the American Aesthetic period. Each room has different details, but a variation on a theme. Some victorian revival, some arts and crafts. I wouldn't say to prairie style, as the overhangs are not large enough, nor are there any windows that close to the upper edge of the floor.I'm not sure about some of the detail on the frieze board - it may have been added. But the corbles which are unusually horizontal in scaling seem to be original.I wonder if maybe a west coast (Greene Brothers) influenced Arts and crafts style would look good? Maybe use butt joints on the trim, with a little overhang? Don't know how I would go around the corners though.The railing had to have been added. I'm guessing code or insurance issue. As people have noticed, some of the baulusters are not spaced right. Some houses in the neighborhood have brick bases with a single metal pole as the railing. Given that our house is brick construction, I gotta wonder if we didn't have brick bases before.
i should of known it was a variation of four square, because of the gable, but prairie, arts and craft and bungalow. share alot of elements, they like you know where all around the same time. the craftsman, bungalow,4 square, prairie. where under the architectural umbrella known as utilitarian styles. utilitaerian house styles could be split into two groups if memory serves first are thosefrom a well -articulated philosophy, such as the craftsman movement then there are those houses that evolved from vernacular american building forms. the four square was cheap to build, it combined simplicity and economy and versatillity. it was usually topped with a low hip rooffed dormer. i love those house's there really adaptable, you got the most house for the money, simple, honest ,substanial,practical. builders had a blast with it , there were colonial styling's , through some field stone around the foundation and porch. stucco the exterior you have a prairie. there were thousand s built , with the columns most of the time going straight to the deck. with a busy ,simple balustrade Old House Journal had a complete issue on these classics and there elements , i wonder if they could have an old one laying around?? you have anice classic , i love them that whole genre' at least. slainte'" He who makes a beast out of one's self, get's rid of the pain of being a man"
Edited 5/18/2005 6:50 pm ET by the bear
Bryan, I knew I should have pulled over and taken a photo of a house north of you in NW OH. If you want, I'll do it tomorrow. Might help you with some size and proportion ideas. It reminded me of the one you posted to start this off. The column bases were shingled. Lemme know.
And since you're in Col, think about the Breaktime Fest to your north in August. It's a chance to put a face to some of these goofballs.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I did mull over the break fest, but since I don't work in the industry, I figured I would pass. I did look up the location though, as I have no sense of direction.If you are near that house, go ahead and get a picture. Put if it shingled, which is common for shingled houses, that won't work here. That is actually one of the reasons I think our originals were probably brick like the house.Do you know anything about a fire at the court house here in Franklin County around 1920 or something? Apparently there isn't anyone to get title information before then because of this fire.
Hubcap is from outside of columbus, and Rich (or rick) from Columbus, well he's from columbus. Search out their names here and make contact, they might be of some help. I will take a short detour and try to post the pic tomorrow later in the day.
And as far as not being in the trades and the fest, don't worry about it, come ahead.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I was going to say the same ...
but I get the impression Bryan is trying to ... uh ... "save" money ...
while I'm pretty sure Doug and Rich both try to make ... uh ... lotsa money!
Jeff
Here you go.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
be a pane
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
What software or freeware do you use to resize photos? I'd like to start putting some on but I've got a dial up connection.
Thanks for any help.
slateman-
Irfanview is a program many here on BT find useful and fairly easy to operate. I'm curious what size KGs pics you find easy to download.
I'm thinking for most folk here on dialup it's around 80 KGs and after that the download times start getting too lengthy and you really have to want the pic to mess with it.
After that it's not worth the wait so the attachment gets passed by, thus limiting the interaction.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=24441.1
is an old thread kept for centralizing posting data that includes a lot of info on posting pics and the Irfanview download.
Cheers
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
Rez, you are a man with a mission. Thanks for the help on all th epictures
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
be an 80KG epicture.
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
I checked again last night, and I was wrong. It does look like the columns have been cut off at the bottom (the flutes tail out at the top, but not the bottom). Makes me wonder if the columns were once full height. Frankly, I think the fluted columns look wrong on the house period. I think they should be the tapered square ones, probably on a brick base. But I'm not going that far - too much money already.I'm going to get some pictures of other houses tonight.
I was thinking that the double columns at each end of the porch need to be closer together and the base maybe should have a vertical divider in the middle of the panel.
IMHO - the proportions to me are all wrong. Look to the red house to the left - square columns and railings, which look proportionately even more appropriate for the grey house.
The proportions of the grey house to me call for a similar design - the rigidity of the square windows and front door, diamond leaded panes in the 2nd floor and the window trim of the 3rd floor reflects the column and railing detail of the neighbour.
The column base and railing on the grey house are poorly done, even from the distance shown in the photos. If keeping it as-is .... then the balusters need to be repositioned - look to first two on the right railing. Add a vertical trim piece to make the corner bases proportionately the same as the middle bases. The dark colour in the middle of the base draws the eye to them - keep it white.
The step railing should mimick the proch railing - same balustes with a large base post set into the last step.
Paul
just reposting with some smaller files... you may get some more feedback from the dial up users...
Thanks for making the photo files smaller.
to me, a quick fix for the unbalance look may be in a bit of paint
from the pics -- and it may look totally different in person...the yellowish beige paint on the flat panels seems out of place... those panels should either match the siding (gray), or white like the rest of the railings (which may look to "big"). As it is, it may match the underside of the porch, but maybe it isn't right that way?
I did a quickie in photoshop, looks better gray to me.
Looks familiar!!
this is a porch I am working on.
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
Well, there go our theories about the bases being disproportionate in size to the overall theme. Now we've got two houses with boxed bases, and each looks about like the other.
I would like to know the approximate location of the first house. It looks like many I have seen in the Pittsburgh area, but I suppose it could be anywhere. Somehow, I think it is in the east. Chicago doesn't have many like that.
Looks like the boxes are a given. How to detail them is the question.
Time to go to the library and research some architectural standards circa 1900.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Fabulous! When you are finished on that one, my address is 794 Franklin Ave, Columbus, OH. You can stay in the carriage house....
Is there any profile on the inside edge of the frame, or is it square edged? Mine has some, and I think it looks wrong, but it is repeated in other places on the porch.
We used a 5/8x7/8 shingle mold.
Got the rails and balusters up today,
Gotta make some panels for the skirt area.
More pics will folly
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
I can't believe T posted 3 and 4 hundred KB pics.
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
I usually resize em down to 200 or less but I been lazy lately.
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
He just realized, he dont really exist, nor do the pics...once the 1 enters into the O , there is a new beginning...(invented by GreenCu) ...
As farthoms range, and the idioms perpeuate the cosmic schisms of innneuendal modality at the quark by beagle squared ( meaning that the F'Castle has Augured in to the Main Mizzen mast)..we are left a loof...
But I understand. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
this is small, so you feel compelled to look at it
..we are left a loof...
don't you mean a roof?
Now Saddlebacks, Mansards and Gambrels and HelmsAnd Hipped roofs these can all overwhelmAll but to those with experienced yearsWith the wagon, or cradle roof ...gawd gimmee a beer.Doubleframed, Belfast, bowstring and lean-tobefuddles the mind or at least it might seem tocoupled and tie-beam, wind-braces, weird facesHammerbeam, Kingposts in all the right places.And collar-beam, commons, wall plates and strutsMakes me awful tempted to say 'What the !'Then instead to Breaktime I come as a goof
"Guys, what the hell is a Hyperbolic Paraboloid roof?"
be a woof woof
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
Edited 5/20/2005 11:57 am ET by razzman
ROTFLMAO...yer a hoot...
b a coot Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
this is small, so you feel compelled to look at it
And.........................I ................................think..................it .............................works...................wait, I have a plan...ok?...............let's ...oh neve mind, just email me and forgo the stuff,,is that whole life? or just the recyclababbels?
Man, I can barely deal with the physics of buildings, and these guys get all metaphysical. I'll never make it...
While Shpere pursues his circiular reasoning, I just passed on trying to open them...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Man, just went back thru the posts and saw no one had resized those pics. I been slippin'.
What day is this again?
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
Just a thought. Tear open one of the boxes and take a peek inside. Maybe they built them around older smaller boxes.
Same as what Buck and Piffin say.
Those fluted columns have been cut off. Why would they stop the flutes short of the banding near the top and not do so down at the bottom? That's a practice done on Doric columns and you don't have Doric columns.
Look at the pictures that Mr T posted, you should have some plinths at the base of the column. Also what piffin said about the framing of the bases, doesn't look proper.
Doug
Yup...
Gimmea week to get it out and tote home, I have a repair like last yrs. But these are 14' and 20"? @ the base.
Bet cher axe , I'll post a few shots...
entasis is our friend....right.
Just jacking the frigging portico up will take two of us...then GENTLY remove the plaster capitol and caulk..and stuff it in my my van...did I say say shoot me yet?..LOL
Oh yeah,,,wasssup with the balusters on that one side? Kinda close?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Yup, I really bought this place, wanna shoot me? Please?
Edited 5/17/2005 7:34 pm ET by SPHERE
Here are some others in the neighborhood. I wonder if ours were not like L1000411 at some point.On columns, are plinths the square base at the bottom or the round part between the column and the square part? I've actually got the square part - what's missing is the round part I've realized.
again
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
Bryan
On columns, are plinths the square base at the bottom or the round part between the column and the square part.
Both. And just putting the square part on will still give you an unfinished look. The round part can be made very easily. I've made quite a few with just a simple router and a few bits.
Doug
The others are Tuscan that you show here.The square base is the plinth
Above that, the bulbous projection encorcling the column is the torus. The next detail up is the scotia, then the actual column rising to the capital details
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My impression is that the torus is typically solid wood (pieced together). Is this correct? And given that we have a cut-off fluted column, I'm thinking the scotia detail might require that I epoxy in some of the fluting at the bottom.
Traditionally it is wood. Some of the newere composite columns use a fibregalss molded shape taht includes the plinth, torus, and scotia in one unit and slips over a ventilation detail at the base of the column to hid it. the FG can be halved to fit around an exiosting and then epoxied back together again. You are right about using a filler to recreate teh stops at the bottom opf the flutes.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Here's a picture from a house in Indy. Columns go to the porch floor. I drive by this house coming home from work---I think the columns are fluted, but I'm not totally sure on that.
View Image
I'd be interestd in the detail of how the railings attach to the columns if they are fluted.
Here's a different photo of the porch---the columns are not fluted.
View Image
Odd, it looks to me like the one capital is Ionic (farther one), and the other is Corinthian (the fancier closer one). I noted that in the first post of this house. Never seen them mixed like that. Nice house though.
I'm not sure that I have ever seen railings attach directly to fluted columns - at least not properly. I've seen some porches 'round here where there are full height fluted columns and the railings and hand rails are iron. I sometimes wonder it that is what we had - there are some cut off iron railings at the bottom of the steps.
The thing that bothers me the most is the cement block foundation wall. Tell me you're going to cover it.
Yeah, we will cover the block with plantings. We're holding back there until we do the porch work, so that we can place ladders and not mangal the plants. What do you think will look good there?
"Yeah, we will cover the block with plantings. We're holding back there until we do the porch work, so that we can place ladders and not mangal the plants. What do you think will look good there?"
I think you need more than plants. I would paint the cement block a dark neutral color and cover it with lattice painted a lighter color to match the porch. Then plants.
Dark paint is a good idea,I'll be sure to add that when we paint the porch. I was thinking about lattice, but I haven't decided on plants yet. I hate vines that can grow into cracks and crevices you don't want (I have some ivy growing in a basement window). This is a southern exposure, so lots of goods sun. I'm amazed that the dogwoods do as well as they do.
What I hate about many vines, especially ivy, is that the little rootlike things it hangs on with (there's a word for them that I don't remember) actually penetrate and bring moisture in and then the materials they're clinging to start to degrade, rot, etc.