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Do we have a dangerous mold problem? …

| Posted in General Discussion on March 9, 2000 07:43am

*
Many years ago, we had a double skylight put into our living room ceiling. It has leaked every winter. For the first 5 years it was under warranty, the contractor’s workers came out and “fixed it” (he refused to come out and look at it himself, and denied it was an ongoing problem every year). After that, we had a different independent roofer come and fix it. After that, I, who am pretty handy went up and “fixed” it. It is leaking again this year. I pulled down the wood trim surrounding it on the ceiling (the ceiling is from 1978, and is covered with that “shot” material popular then (we’ve been assured verbally by the builder’s daughter that there is no asbestos in it).

Now the part of the ceiling that was under the trim boards is showing a strip about 1 foot long, and 2 inches wide of a black colored mold, or mildew. Also where the ceiling meets the wall above the fireplace, there is a section of black mold or mildew about 1 foot by 6 inches. (Both of these are on the “shot” material. The sheetrock on the wall is wet and/or water-stained in spots. We are going to have a whole new roof put on this year. (Getting bids ASAP)

My main questions are: 1) Should I scrape this moldy material off the ceiling in the meantime? (This is the first year we’ve seen it, although one year there was mildew on the wall (small patch) which we washed off and painted over. @.) How can we prevent this recurring leak when we get the new roof? It appears that the skylights were installed too close together. And 3) How do we know if this mold is a dangerous one, and how far do we need to go to determine if we have a bigger problem that what is showing? (We live in the SF Bay area- Alameda Co.) and we’re a little scared by the show on 48 hrs last night about stachybotrys mold. Can you please help with advice? Thanks!

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  1. Guest_ | Mar 04, 2000 11:50pm | #1

    *
    ... sounds like good old mold...but ...
    take some clorox bleach in a spray bottle and mist it ... sonds like all of this is exposed, right?

    so with the heat from the house,, you can let it start to dry out.. if its a normal mold , the bleach should kill it..if you remove one of the three things neccessary for mold...

    heat

    oxygen

    and moisture the mold can't grow

    don't scrape it though, that will just distribute the spores, this mold is in your ceiling area so it should be less threatening than a mold you might find in a crawl space with animal feces present...

    if it dries out and turns powdery , you could encapsulate it with some spray paint.. and then have your contractor handle it in the normal course of replaceing / repairing the skylight..

    but wait.... someone with a better kowledge of the latest tv scare may be able to help us out with the real skinny....

    as far as the leak goes, hire a good contractor / roofer and probably replace the skylights while he's there..

    sounds like a problem that should have been fixed on the first call-back... or never have happened at all...

    if you suspect that the damage is more widespread, it can be inspected by a competent person by visual or destructive inspection...
    do you think it's more than jst a leaky skylight?

  2. Clyde_ | Mar 05, 2000 12:41am | #2

    *
    Thanks, Mike. Do you mean straight clorox bleach, or should it be diluted? How do we know if the mold's been killed? It just doesn't spread?

    My concern is, if it's showing on the ceiling, does this mean I have a much greater growth of it, or problem under the walls and maybe the rest of the ceiling? Is it important to pull off the sheet rock and see?

    It would be pretty expensive to replace the skylights. My guess is that the installer may have trimmed the flange between the two skylights in the double application, and never sealed it. Does this make sense? (A single skylight was installed across the room at the same time and has never been a problem. I believe all three are Velux). And if my guess is right, can it be repaired in some way, or should we never trust it? I would hate to put on a whole new roof, and then have the problem again under it. I also hate to spend money on new skylights when I already have two that just may need to finally be done right

    Appreciate your input, and welcome more!.

  3. Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 02:18am | #3

    *
    .. Clyde , straight Chlorox from a new bottle, the old stuff leaves more of a yellow stain when it contacts plaster and ceilings..

    you say "many years ago" how many.. what vintage are the Velux?

    if they are not too old , you can buy new Flashing kits for them... have your contractor go to his lumber yard/ millwork supplier and see if you can get new kits for them... there are usually code numbers on a plate on te frame on the older Velux.. and etched into the alum. spacer between the insulated glass on the newer ones... usually that code and the glass size will identify the model ..

    if the two are ganged side-by-each, then yes , its entirely possible that the gang flashing was done wrong....

    Velux and Roto, and all the good mfrs. have factory reps. trained in trouble shooting.... your millwork store MAY be able to arrange something... or if you have a good contractor and he has some pull , maybe he can get some action...

    or he may identify the problem all by himself.. you want an experienced contractor with first hand knowledge of roofs, skylights, and flashings...
    the guy you want , knows his stuff and is a real leak sleuth...

    that is the same guy who can give you on-site advice as to wether your problem is confined to the leaky skylight area.. or if you have a further problem of moisture damage in the ceiling / roof structure..

    mist the area with the chlorox..put a respirator on, and open up some of the sheetrock around the skylight, this is how you will know if the mold is more widespread than you can see on the ceiling....

    do you have any inspection bays into the roof structure? get a Pro in to inspect if you don't have the confidence to do this yourself...ask them some questions about their experience with skylights, leaks, mold, and cathedral ceilings (this is a cathedral ceiling , right?)
    from a reread of your descriptions , this sounds like you/ve got a lot of moisture in the roof structure...

    is you roof vented at the soffits? and at the ridge?

    how was your roof constructed? do you have any access to it from other wings?

    if you don't have any access, you can inspect it by cutting out a section of the ceiling , or by removing roof shingles and plywood, in a couple representative areas..... the other location over near the chimney could be a chimney leak, or it could be the manifestation of a wet roof structure....

    somebody on site has to make some determinations in order to come up with a solution..

    got a digital camera?

    got some more questions? got some more info?

    come on back...

    1. Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 03:55am | #4

      *Clyde,

      Mike has given you some good advice. The only contribution I can make is that your problem especial with it only leaking in the winter, is most often caused by a faulty flashing installation. The water gets between the the flashing and roof, freezes and then thaws. When it thaws it leaks.

      Also, I really won't bother with the original contractor, you'll never get the right job done by him. Call in a new pro as Mike has suggested and have him completely reinstall the window with new flashing. This should take care of the problem.

      View Image © 1999-2000"The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato

      1. Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 07:09am | #5

        *.....FredL & JoeF... great posts.. keep up the coop...

  4. geoff_murray | Mar 05, 2000 09:39am | #6

    *
    Well put Mike!
    I agree, you've got to open it up in the most suspect areas and have a good look, inside and out. I'd replace anything that is black, or remotly suspect Unless the framing is really wacky, properly flashed, the skylights should be dry. No amount of caulking makes ir waterproof, it has to be properly flashed.
    If the 'shot' material you refer to is blown in insulation, be careful (ie dust mask at least, preferably resperator)opening and taking it out, as you must anything tainted or damp or moldy.

    1. Clyde_ | Mar 05, 2000 07:08pm | #7

      *I really appreciate all this information. Thanks to all of you. Sorry to say thinking about all your info leads me to more questions! Hope you don't mind...1.) The "shot" material is on the ceiling inside the house. (I think they used to call it "acoustic ceiling". They even used to put glitter in it sometimes - this one is glitter-free). It's clear to me now that I'm going to have to remove some of the sheetrock under it. How can I really be sure thatthe material doesn't contain asbestos? (Our year of construction is right around when they outlawed asbestos, and close enough to be uncomfortable.) Will a respirator be enough when working with this also if it does contain asbestos? Would the amount I'm talking about not really matter? 2.) The wall next to the fireplace is water stained, and we now see a little bit of mold there too, so we'll be removing that sheetrock. So, how far do you go in taking the sheetrock off? Just keep going until you don't see any mold under the last piece removed?3.) I so totally agree that we need a good roof contractor. I have NEVER had good luck finding a competent contractor. So far, I've had small jobs done. The roof is a biggy. How do I find a really good contractor that I can trust to do good work?Thanks again for everything. I plan to contact Velux - that was a great tip! P.S. re: the flashing, I believe the problem is that the installer installed them as a "gang" unit, but put them closer together than Velux intended, and trimmed the flashing himself (I'm guessing). There are only 4 inches between the two windows. We like this look, and would like to hold onto it. Is that possible to do, or will we be forced to cut a bigger hole and move the skylights apart more? Maybe this is a question for Velux, but you've been so great, thought I'd throw it out there.

  5. Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 07:27pm | #8

    *
    .. the "shot ceiling" here in RI, would have been a "pop-corn " ceiling from the '70s or early '80s

    but in California might be a sea-shell or "knock down" call a drywall supply or drywall contractor who's been in business when your house was done.. he can tell you what was used then,, I was always under the impression it was a fine vermiculite, also you're going to stage the area you want to remove, and pull the sheetrock down, take out a section when you find the joints, so most of the DUST will be gypsum from the core....

    and if the "pop-corn " had some asbestos mixed in the vermiculite (could have it tested) it is still encapsulated in the gypsum sprayed onto the ceiling..

    don't scrape it.. just pull down sections and bag it..

    you probably have a leak problem.. it only shows up at the chimney and the skylight ? so you may be lucky.. leaks are easier than general rotting of the roof structure..

    finding a good contractor...hmmmm..

    pay me and my crew to fly to SF..

    ask one of the ladies in the Tavern who they got ?
    there is someone from there....
    check this board for SF area contractors?

    ask your neighbors..

    go to a good lumber yard that deals with contractors and see the manager... he doesn't want to recommend a bum steer..

    try the same with a roofing material supplier, take those recommendations and check them out..

    1. Guest_ | Mar 05, 2000 10:00pm | #9

      *... Clyde... re: your PS.. i still don't know what year the skylights were installed... but sounds like PRE-ICE & WATER... materials are available now thta are superior to what we had then... 4" doesn't sound like that big a challenge .. between a new flashing kit, a skilled roofer / installer, and ice and water... this should be fixable... shoulda been fixed the first time though.... sorry 'bout that..so... i shud watch the mail for my plane tickets.. or are they commin by FedEx?

  6. Clyde_ | Mar 06, 2000 06:37am | #10

    *
    Believe me, we'd love to have ya, Mike! Too bad you're so far away. What we need is a California clone! Thanks again for all your help. Your good karma should get you a great new job out there soon!

  7. Guest_ | Mar 06, 2000 10:00am | #11

    *
    Clyde, if you could move the house down to Laguna Hills, I could get my brother to take a look at it for ya! Jeff/Buck Construction/Pgh.PA.

    1. Guest_ | Mar 06, 2000 10:16pm | #12

      *.. Clyde..only one real favor i ask... when you decide what you're going to do..let us know...and along with that... after it gets opened up.. lets us know the results... we can all learn a thing or two here..thanks , Mike

      1. Guest_ | Mar 07, 2000 04:10am | #13

        *It has leaked every "WINTER"Why not summer too?I don't know your climate (the SF Bay area - does it rain more in winter?) but could this be a case of condensation disguised as a roof leak? Just curious.

        1. Guest_ | Mar 07, 2000 04:18am | #14

          *Get the Velux rep. there ASAP.near the stream,aj

  8. Clyde_ | Mar 09, 2000 07:41am | #15

    *
    Thanks, everyone. I will let you know how it goes like you asked. It's the least I can do for your help. (And, yes, Scott, it mainly rains in Winter - not much the rest of the year. Fall and Spring rains are infrequent and light. Hey, thanks for the offer, Jeff! Too bad it's so darn impractical. Think some good thoughts for me in finding someone good. Thanks for the Velux rep idea, A. Jack. I thought it had been so long, they wouldn't want to talk to me. Glad you encouraged this.

    Thanks again, all. Signing out til I have something to report.

  9. Clyde_ | Mar 09, 2000 07:43am | #16

    *
    Many years ago, we had a double skylight put into our living room ceiling. It has leaked every winter. For the first 5 years it was under warranty, the contractor's workers came out and "fixed it" (he refused to come out and look at it himself, and denied it was an ongoing problem every year). After that, we had a different independent roofer come and fix it. After that, I, who am pretty handy went up and "fixed" it. It is leaking again this year. I pulled down the wood trim surrounding it on the ceiling (the ceiling is from 1978, and is covered with that "shot" material popular then (we've been assured verbally by the builder's daughter that there is no asbestos in it).

    Now the part of the ceiling that was under the trim boards is showing a strip about 1 foot long, and 2 inches wide of a black colored mold, or mildew. Also where the ceiling meets the wall above the fireplace, there is a section of black mold or mildew about 1 foot by 6 inches. (Both of these are on the "shot" material. The sheetrock on the wall is wet and/or water-stained in spots. We are going to have a whole new roof put on this year. (Getting bids ASAP)

    My main questions are: 1) Should I scrape this moldy material off the ceiling in the meantime? (This is the first year we've seen it, although one year there was mildew on the wall (small patch) which we washed off and painted over. @.) How can we prevent this recurring leak when we get the new roof? It appears that the skylights were installed too close together. And 3) How do we know if this mold is a dangerous one, and how far do we need to go to determine if we have a bigger problem that what is showing? (We live in the SF Bay area- Alameda Co.) and we're a little scared by the show on 48 hrs last night about stachybotrys mold. Can you please help with advice? Thanks!

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