I’ve posted my concerns about using z-max connectors and nails with the new ACQ and have had mixed answers. This got me thinking, what did we do before joist hangers? If my research is correct, we put a 2×4 against 2×8 or whatever and possibly notched the joist to sit on it, or have the ledger be wider to accommodate the 2×4 with joist on top. The rim joist was nailed into the ends of the joists. Did we start using joist hangers and other metal connectors because things were made safer?
Are they necessary in all phases of building? Your thoughts.
Kevin
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Replies
Hi Doc,
Hangers are not needed everywhere, but they are better than most of the methods they replaced, IMO.
Notching the bottom at the ends to set the joist on a ribbon ledger is a surefire way to have shear failure of the joist. (That's where the wood splits along the grain, starting at the corner of the notch.)
Setting the whole joist on a ledger and toenailing the end to the beam can work well. Toenails alone can also work, but it requires great care and the connection does not weather as well as a hanger joint does. Joist hangers are a great invention, with so little metal giving so much assistance to a critical joint.
Simpson sells type 316 hangers, too. I used 10 of them on a deck I recently completed for a customer. 2x6 size cost $6.21 each with 3" SS nails included. They are the double shear type of hanger "LUS 26 SS" in Simpson terms.
Bill
You got me interested, nails included with the hangers, that's a whole new ball game. Priced out SS 3 1/4 nails plastic collated for the gun from manasquan fasteners at $177 per 1000. I could use the palm nailer with loose nails.
Doc, I bought the hangers from Manasquan, FWIW.Bill
I called them today, there about 45 minutes from me. Had a nice conversation with the guy there telling him how often his place is recommended on this site. He said he advertised in Fine Home Building.
what did we do before joist hangers?
pressure blocks
View Image
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Huck, what are you using to do your nice illustrations of late? Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
(why thank you)
View Image google sketchup and
View Image Microsoft Paint
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
What are you using the MS Paint for in those images?
The bottom image was made with ms paint - I was formally trained as an illustrator/commercial artist, so sometimes my sketches have a 3D look but they're just sketched line for line with Paint. But for more complex stuff I use Google SketchupView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
sketched line for line. geez, you got some talent. I have to use SU for anything like that but my own libraries of components makes things real quick.
Newer houses tend to be much larger and have longer joist spans than older houses.
What worked 80 years ago on a 12' clear span floor joist will not work on a newer 18' clear span floor joist.
So to me, you're comparing apples to oranges.
The reason I ask is I'm reconstructing the proch I removed for the house to be lifted. If you recall, the porch roof was supported by cantilevered 2x6's back to the ledger board on the house. I want to do it traditional in the sense that the decking will be perpendicular to the house, you'll be able to see the T&G joint. The porch is only 6 feet deep on the front of the house and 7 feet on the side. I'm doubling up 2x8 out from house with about 6-7 feet between them. Than I plan to put joists parallel to house 16 oc. This requires alot of hangers and it got me thinking, that's why I asked the question. I know there are many reasons for using them, your point about spans for one. My situation is much smaller spans.Thanks
Kevin