As a contractor I think Home Depot
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Acecan,
We have a Lowes here. I like it. Our local electrical supply house took 15 minutes to wait on me the last visit there. I was the only one in the store. At Lowes the knowledge is terrible so I just go get what I want. I use the kitchen and bath area as my personal showroom. I memorize most of the store so I can get what I want right away and go in early in the morning before most folks get there. No lines, no waiting. Perfect place? Nope. But everything I need in one place and I can get it pronto. I think it depends on you area too. Maybe your supply houses are better. DanT
Depot, and lowes put all but one supply house out of business in my area, and that supply house is so damn expensive, i don't see it staying long. I don't like Lowes or HD too much, but it's all I've got. You're ok if you are looking for standard grade builder's material. If you have to order something, or god forbid have a question, you're better off using one of them HD plastic handled hammers and beating youself into a stupor.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
I would agree with Lunicy, just take me out and shoot me the next time I even think about special ordering anything. My Anderson window order was handled my at least 3 different sale people which none knew little or next to nothing about windows. I still dont have my windows and chances are they wont be the right ones . Their no interest no payment is the reason I went with HD and I would pay it off with construction loan at the end. What ever the reason its not worth it , Roger
Wasn't this covered by standard question #4???
"Try searching the archives - We've talked about this a bunch of times"
Seriously, Acecan - The big boxes have been discused endlesly around here. The archives will give you quite an earfull about what people think. Most of them aren't shy about sharing their opinions...........
How do you write a zero in Roman numerals?
I find HD to be poorly lit with poor signage and the aisle elves aren't much help. But I'm spoiled because in Eugene, Or, there's an independent big box called Jerry's which started there as a hole in the wall years ago and gradually developed into a HUGE building and garden supply that should be the benchmark for big box stores. Some of the original employees from hole in the wall days are still there from the 60's. And they've never lost their sense of community or their awareness of who their customers are, yet they're large enough now to buy in the volumes necessary to compete with HD, et al.
All in all, I still prefer to patronize those businesses where I can look the owner in the eye if need be. Special orders, merchandise problems and technical issues are much easier to deal with in the more traditional building supply yards. And you can tell a lot about a business by their employee turnover.
Here in NY HD sucks. I here tell of the original HDs hiring knowledgable sales personel, but round here its mostly college kids part time or plumbers helpers who couldnt hack it in the field. They are slow and rarely even know what you`re looking for when given the brand name and product you`re looking for.
Our local lumber yard started spending money and building up to compete when they learned of HDs arrival. Five years later and they are busier than ever and everyone who works there knows what they sell and where to find it. Unless I`ve got all the time in the world and desperately need to save money, I stay clear of Home Depot.
When customers specify something they saw at the HD, I leave it to them to have it on the job when I need it and take no responsabilty.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I hate monopolys!!!
AND alot of companys selling to Home depot make "special" versions of their product just for them usually cheaper quality. That way they can meet HD buying price
Ed, I've heard that too, but I tend to put it down as an urban legend. Do you have specific knowledge of special product lines? Andy Engel, Forum moderator
I have heard it most in the plumbing fixtures, I wonder about some of the lower end power tools also
18 months ago we were shopping for laminate floors. Home Depot did have a line of Pergo brand laminate that was made especially for them. It was sold at HD to compete with Pergo Select (the higher quality Pergo line), at a lower price. But it was actually somewhere in between the standard Pergo and Pergo Select in quality. It was probably worth what they were charging for it, but it was not what they were representing it to be.
"A completed home is a listed home."
Not necessarily special lines just for HD, but here I find that HD carries only the crappy line if there's more than one. For instance, they have the Square-D HomeLite line but not the QO. Also, they don't carry the bigger stuff. If you need a 400 amp panel, 3" conduit, or 350 MCM feeders, they don't have any. In NPT pipe and fittings, they carry black and galvanized, but not brass. In attic vents, gutters and downspouts. they have aluminum, galvanized and plastic, but not copper. What I need is an outfit between the HD bottom feeders and the overpriced yuppie hardware botiques. For plumbing, Ferguson's fills that niche, but for everything else, I'm still looking.
-- J.S.
Most big retail chains carry brand-name products that were made specifically for their store, so that's not just a HD 'thing.'
HD and Lowes should both have signs over the entrance that says "SELF SERVE ISLAND" I have yet to find anyone whoe knows anything about anything. Actual quote from HD employee"This (insert crappy product name here) must be quality, everyone uses it." Yea, so were lead pipes in Rome. Local small timer stores are not much better. The redeeming quality for HD and Lowes is price and selection. Both are much better than anything around here. I drive 45 miles(one way) to a Lowes and have found it is cost effective most of the time.
My Home Depot states right on the big sign "Do-it-yourself Warehouse." You see it on the shelf, you get it down, you pay for it. You did it! Hey, it doesn't say "Full Service Warehouse."
I figure it's just like any place of business, you just have to go there enough and get to know a few people. Sure most of the employees are morons, but with the size of the staff at Home Depot, odds are there's always at least a one guy who will just get the forklift, lift down another pallette of lumber, and help me find some pieces that are useable. If he's not there when I need help, I come back another time. There are 4 Home Depots within 3 miles of my house. I found out the one in the toniest neighborhood has the best service and the expensive stuff. Baldwin brass and plantation shutters, that's the one by the country clubs. 3 miles away by the mall, just Schlage and roller shades.
Plus they have Load-n-Go. Is that just in Atlanta or do all of them have that? I love the Load-n-Go. For $19 I can haul 3000 lbs of stuff to my house in their truck. Heck, I live so close I can make 2 trips. I even take returns back on their truck. I get my credit and just leave the cement blocks in the truck for the insolent help to unload at their convenience.
The builder's supply place where I have an account will deliver free, but they charge me more for the materials, and then they just tip the flatbed truck and slide it out on my driveway. Broke the siding and my flagstone pavers. Some value.
The other one won't deliver free unless I get at least $300 of stuff. Sometimes I just don't need that much.
But if it's something they don't have at Home Depot, what are you gonna do? I like HardiPlank smooth. Home Depot only has cedarmill. So I have to order it from the big supplier and hope enough of it survives the fall from the truck.
When my lumberyard delivers that way, I call to let them know how much stuff they need to pick up and give credit for because I won't be paying for damaged goods. There's never a question. I won't do business with another one down the street from there that caters more to homeowners and does that all the time.
Excellence is its own reward!
Who do you like to use for lumber, etc?
A 2 x 4 is a 2 x 4 no matter where it comes from as far as I'm concerned. I've bought from the local lumberywards as well as HD and Lowes and they all have bad ones and good ones. Trick is to pick them yourself or you're going to get some bad ones. Sure it takes more time but so does calling the lumber yard back to pick up the culls and then waiting for them to bring you good ones.
Its the old "want something done right do it yourself theory".
Mike
Big Question.
KD spruce framing studs
PT deck framing
deck surface PO Cedar, IPE`, or CVG Fir
Openweb trusses for floor framing, sometimes TJI
LVLs for beams.
Exterior trim - Primetrim and Primelock
Interior trims we mill ourselves, mostly paint grade from poplar
Floors - Heart Pine, Maple, Red birch
Siding - Extra clear Cedar Shingles or CVG Red Cedar Clapboard
My reply to BReeese was about damage, not quality.
eg. any pile of studs will have fifteen percent waste which I can use up in cripples and deadwood blocking but let the driver dump it into a mud puddle and drive over it and you can bet he'll be back out to pick it up again. Asphalt shingles have neen dumped too, or so I've heard, but not on my jobs. I'm there to meet the driver and help unload anything that takes two to do right.
The outfit I deal with, (Viking Lumber out of Belfast, Maine) is real good about doing you right and has sdome fine drivers. I treat them right at my end too. Som,e guys might consider a driver the dummy in the supply train. I see them as professionals that can either make or break a schedule. Sometimes you've got to break in a new one right but treat them with respect and they'll do you the same.
Not that any of this has anything to do with HD - I doubt that anyomne stays with them long enough to develope relationships with.
Excellence is its own reward!
Real easy for a DIYer to defend Homey when you are their target market. We are talking about the pros and cons of real professionals using them as a supply source and whether that makes business sense.
The latest Builder magazine (http://www.builderonline.com) has an article about HD going into the builder supply business. They recruit employees by walking into competitor businesses and offering them jobs. Richard James Tolzman
and they are sooo helpful, I bought some redwood a week ago, am out in the parking lot loading the truck with the wood and three (kids) working there show up outta nowhere 2 of them grab about 5 boards at once and drop it all over the parking lot...LOL Then after that I say watch out you don't hit MY TRUCK!! So now they grab 1 board at a time 1 kid on each end, while the third one is bumping into the one walking backwards.. I am standing there watching the Keystone cops at work PRICELESS !!
NEXT time I will refuse the help
Andy, This isn't about the products but the attitude. Here in the Killeen/Ft. Hood Texas area, I was (1 year ago) Lowes largest volume customer after the army, and personal friends with the store manager. Long story short, I was attempting to get the Customer service manager to simply price match some cat 5 cable. After being treated so condescendingly by this woman, I broke down and told her that I was their 2nd largest customer ($35,000 per year). Her response was "If you buy so much from us, how come I dont know you?" Needless to say, I wasn't happy. Niether was she after my ranting to her boss was over. Now I only go there if i have to. And I still have to a lot. Leigh
Having seen a bathtub drain that I returned as defective back out on the shelf the next day at the Waterbury, CT, Home Depot, I can relate to your complaint about HD's attitude. I still shop there though, because they have most of what I'm after and they're open when I can visit. I'm just careful to check what I buy and not count on anyone there knowing more about their store than I do.
Mainly, I entered the fray here because much of what was passing smacked of urban legend. Andy Engel, Forum moderator
Andy, please!
If you will pay for shipping both ways I will buy a faucet at HD and one at my local supply house and ship them to you so you can see for yourself.
Please don't dismiss the 2 separate lines thing as urban legend.
Went to a HD in Johnson City Tennessee and there is this kid standing in the aisle with his arms crossed. I ask him did he work in this department (Lars needed to see if they had a commode it stock)? He says "Would I be standing here if I didn't" I then said "WEll how do I know you might just be hiding out!" I mean to tell you half the time when I do go to get Lars something for a job site I cannot find the person to get some help. Half the time I call Lars on the cellphone and read back word for word to make sure I have the right thing (we live 40 min from the closest HD). The people their half the time don't know a screw from a nail! Like I have said I am no expert in this field, just happen to be married to a builder. I feel sorry for the DIY. HD has some advantages I know, but all in all it is a pain if you need some of their help. ANother thing do they EVER smile. They act as if they are doing their time and just waiting for the clock to say time to go home.
Let me ask you this Wet Head Warrior you mean to tell me if I am going to put in MW windows that they are different than my local building suppliers? If this is the case I guess I better get my new windows locally. Always thought they would be the same.Tamara
Don't know about windows but I do know it would be a mistake to assume they are the same without a thorough investigation. Problem is neither the lumber yard nor HD will tell you the truth... but the lumberyard will be closer.
Wet, I'm not dismissing. But I get paid to be skeptical. Without seeing it myself or hearing first-hand from someone who's been there and done that, I tend to dismiss most everything as urban legend. Particularly stuff I hear on-line. How do I know you aren't an 11 year old kid posing as a plumber? (Kidding - Your expertise shows) All I wanted to do with my question was to bring forth the stories that supported the allegations. I think that's happened.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
I am offended! I am not 11! I am 13 years old! So there!
Seriously, I started reading my dad's plumbing trade journals before I went to school. (I taught myself to read by asking "What's that word say?") Books to me had, and still do have, the world hidden in them waiting for me to discover it. I knew more about plumbing at age 11 than most apprentices do after 2 years of work. But then I grew up with it so....
So its proof ya want Andy..heres yer proof!!
Body Found in Parked Van
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ImClone Ex-CEO Waksal Arrested in Tribeca
Mystery Material Closes Suffolk South Shore Beaches
Suspect Nabbed in Triple HomicideTom Demoretcky and Bill MasonJune 11, 2002
The body of an unidentified man was found yesterday in a van parked at a Home Depot store in Jericho and it appears he committed suicide, Nassau homicide detectives said.According to police, a street sweeper cleaning the parking lot of the store, which is on Jericho Turnpike near the intersection of the Long Island Expressway, found the body yesterday about 6:15 a.m.The body was found in the back of the van. Police said it appeared the body had been there for some time.The body was taken to the Nassau medical examiner for an autopsy.
Copyright © 2002, Newsday, Inc.
BE well,
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I heard HD put that guy in charge of the plumbing department when the autopsy failed to find drugs in his system.
Scott R.
Andy, Andy Andy
Will you please give up that theory of urban legend, next you are going to bring up the grassy knoll thing.
Andy, One thing I now is that when you buy something inna can have them open it. I was there once taking to a guy who works there. He told me about a lady who came in bought some water base finish, took it home applied it to her project and it ruined it. Why ...cuz when she bought it back it was thinned with something that smelt like mineral spirits. They took care of her but its the same thing you noticed about the defective drain. Someone must of returned the finish and they just put in on the shelf. Buyer definately beware...
Also I borrowed shadeys Rotozip it came in a Orange case. He bought it at the HD. Well he only used it 3 times . I used it and the shaft lock button popped off. si i called shady asked him where he bought it . thats when I found out he bought it at the HD. i took it back the guy told me after 30 days I had to take it to Rotozip for repair. I told him "Hey look at this thing its new. Im in the middle of a job I cant take the time to run over there and get this thing fixed". They said sorry with Rotozip we cant accept them back after 30 days. I said I dont want no money just give me another Rotozip" Sorry he said. The reason I mention the kit was in a Orange case is because HD is the only one who sells it in a orange case. I went to Blowes theres is in a grey case looked at tool crib same thing.. they knew it was there tool. They just were screwing with me.
Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Edited 6/12/2002 12:10:40 AM ET by Ron Teti
I'm in NY Long Island and there was a reallyyyyyy funny article I read in my local newspaper (Newsday) yesterday. Its funny cause of this thread. The article said that a man was found dead in his van yesterday at a Home Depot parking lot in Jerico L.I...an apparent suicide.
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
> said that a man was found dead in his van yesterday at a Home Depot parking lot
Are they *sure* he was dead, and not just an HD employee? ;-)
-- J.S.
They would have said BRAIN dead
Is this a sign of a GC that had enough of HD? LOL!Tamara
all kidding aside....can you imagine thats where you'd kill yourself....In a HD parking lot? He was in a van so he probably was a contractor of sorts I'm betting. I wish they'd follow the story up so we could see if there were any HD bags they he bought in his van. MAybe he actually was in love with HD. Dont most people kill themselves in places they like.....like at home.....oops...freudian slip (HOME depot)
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey-
Can anybody post a copy of that picture that was circulating a coupla years ago- the one that showed a huge stack of ply and lumber on the top of a Toyota Corolla or some such, with the suspension maxed out and the tires squished down to the rims? It was a photo taken at a Home Depot, passenger asleep in the car and the smack-crazed driver on foot chasing traffic out on the road.
Ken Hill
I know this is not the picture you asked for... but I took this two days ago at the local HD (yes, I admit I was buying some material there). I had to take this picture because these idiots had just cut in front of me in line (they didn't speak English, so I decided against arguing with them, after a few expletives which went unnoticed). Then after standing in line behind them, they couldn't afford to buy everything in their cart so they had to take some of it back. Then I saw them outside loading their car. I seriously considered sticking around and following them out so I could watch all their lumber end up in the road, but I had already wasted enough time.
more to the story about the dude who wacked himself in hd parking lot...a cop friend of mine said he used a HILTI nail gun shot into his head...wonder if it was reconditioned???
Sure, (ok, third time to try, I'll get the hang of this place someday...).this photo is all over>>>
All can say is the guy in the above photo wanted to go to work a hell of a lot more than I ever did. Btw, I don't think that was an HD purchase, but who cares where the idjits shop.
Man, I hope that was a joke!
Brudoggie
No, it is no joke.
Snopes has an article showing that it IS NOT AN URBAN LEGEND.
Here is more of the story and a couple of other pictures.
http://www.snopes2.com/photos/lumber.htm
Ken.
I'll see if I can dig it up.
The car was NOT parked at HD. It was parked in a parking lot of some kind, not even in a parking space. It was also still running. The story line was that he bought the stuff at HD, but who really knows.
The driver was not in the picture at all. His passenger, a woman, was asleep in the passenger side front seat.
When I find it, I'll post it.James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
Hi James-
Already got it from Qtrmeg a few posts back.
Would be fun if folks here could keep their cameras handy and show some of the idiotic loading witnessed at the big boxes!
Ken Hill
Edited 6/13/2002 9:36:11 PM ET by Ken Hill
> Would be fun if folks here could keep their cameras handy and show some of the idiotic loading witnessed at the big boxes!
Yes, and even more idiotic is the fact that the big boxes sell big items, and yet they don't have any kind of customer loading zone. You can buy a ton and a half of stuff, you can buy lumber 20 feet long, and they expect you to load it all in an ordinary parking lot, just as if it were groceries from the supermarket.
-- J.S.
Thats the part I got against them. I just never have that kind of time to do that . Sometimes , I have to beg to get some help loading. Thats bs . At our lowes theres about 5 lanes running up front and two running in contrator sales, So there is about two "boys" to assist in loading. They always seem to be tied up helping some old lady load her lamp, or potting soil. You can imagine.
Tim Mooney
"two "boys" to assist in loading. They always seem to be tied up helping some old lady load her lamp, or potting soil."
My experience is that they're helping some young lady load a 5 pound box of something.
i SAW A GOOD ONE ON THE HIGHWAY AWHILE AGO
A white panel van in the gore lane of a major highway with a 6 man whirlpool leaning against the front of the van, apparently the Idiot put the whirlpool on top of it and stopped too fast thus it slid off!! It was a funny sight..
Ed
Am I missing something here, what the heck is the "gore lane",is that some political reference?
Doug
LOL the gore lane or the gore area as we call it here is the area between a ramp and the highway ..........you know the area with the stripes that you arent suppose to be on.......
LOL... no Doug its the lane markings denoting a highway exit lane (or entrance lane)
I guess that HD is choosy about it's customers or they know something they aren't telling us.
"Home Depot Ends Government Sales"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63290-2002Jun17.html
It's not the habitat, it's the inhabitants.
Won't you be my neighbor
I see that one of HD's next strategies is to provide construction management for customers' projects- coordiation, scheduling, critical path, etc. Yeah, we'll see.
Also, HD is now completing a HUGE distribution warehouse here in Olympia, which will supply other area 'hub' distribution centers in the West.
HD seems almost rabidly ambitious, and plans/projects to hit ONE BILLION in sales by '05. How big does a company need to be?
Wasn't it Mick Jagger who said, "Too much is never enough."
Ken Hill
I think it was Tom Daschle who said that.
Yes, this article today caught a lot of attention.
About a year or two ago, there was a rather large article in Forbes describing the Home Depot business "model." In the article, the author went to length explaining how the HD buyers would strong-arm suppliers (and would-be suppliers) to provide the product in such a way as to fit immediately into the HD retailing outlet. This would include packaging, product specification, as well as applying the specific HD barcode tag. The key word in this drivel is "strong-arm."
The rest of us joes have no where near the buying power that the US Gov't. has. Including when and how they want to pay in addition to the generalized press releases today explaining that it was because of the ad nauseum compliance requirements dictated by the Feds.
I've got a buddy out here on the shakey side that has the contract to paint the camouflage on the HumVees and other military equipment before going into service. He's been doing this for about a year now and even with close connections with the Brass, he's yet to be paid. Now this is a small operation - only running about 10 to 15 employees. At last count, the Feds owe him over $1,000,000. And when he calls about payment, it's always "being approved, in the mail," or "do you have any idea how many small businesses we put out of business every year? We've get to it when we can."
But then I got another buddy elsewhere that sells to the VA system. They pay on the spot with a Visa card. Apparently it has something to do with the amount in question.
But the bottomline is, with the hassles the feds are giving to my first buddy coupled with the goofy rules (such as health care coverage for the providers employees gay cat's "life partner"), I'm surprised more companies don't tell the government, "Try getting it from China."
I support this move. I believe it will result in keeping the prices down on whatever we do think is worthwhile buying from the orange box.
HD does carry "modified products."
A few years ago I was on an airplane doing some paperwork. The man next to me noted that it was construction-related and we struck up a conversation.
He sat on the Board of Directors for Home Depot. Gave me his business card. He could have been faking it, who knows...and who would want to?
Long conversation, but one thing I remember was drywall. He told me that their drywall was not "rolled as hard," meaning that it's not as dense as regular drywall. He said the core was not as dense, which is why they didn't offer 12' sheets. The 12' sheets would nearly always snap when they were carried or moved.
Then they only sold 8' sheets, he said they were going to try 10' sheets. Again, this was several years ago. I have no idea what HD offers for drywall these days.
HD is, to me, somewhat of a convenience store and somewhat of an inconvenience store. They're open longer hours, some of their product is good. I don't depend on their help for assistance. To me, it's a hit-and-run store. Get in, get out, and get home.
Sometimes the cashiers can be truly silly.
While we`re on the subject of the Big Box, I`m curious. Here in NY HD has what you might call a spin off warehouse called The Expo. Im just wondering if this is a national thing or just something they pop up in the wealthier necks of the woods?J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I first went into one of these EXPO's about 4 years ago out here in Orange County. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of their early stores. Does BIG business!! Now they've got them everywhere it seems. I don't see Lowes coming out with anything similar yet.
I see they've got another type on the south side of Denver. Around 470 and University. It's called Home Depot Supply. I haven't gone in it yet to see what's happening, but I will soon.
They opened one near me couple years ago. It seems to cater to those among us with way too much money and a severe shortage of taste and common sense. I was impressed as hell with a huge red stove called an AGA.
A strange looking addition for the trophy kitchen, cost about $12K, and even better for those who live anywhere warm is that it stays on 24 hours a day. Keeps your kitchen toasty winter and summer. It's about 10' long too, in case there's too much room in the kitchen.
A whole bunch of artsy looking stuff that looked fairly useless. Expensive though. JoeH
We have two EXPO's in MA. They basically have "higher-end" kitchens,baths, etc. It's considered their high end design center. Do they have some nice stuff? Sure, some. Crap....yes some crap too. There are many builders that take their clients their to do one stop shopping for all their "custom" interior furnishings etc.
You can tell the builder groups from the tire kickers easily. The builders' groups usually have a well dressed couple walking around pointing at things followed closely by a guy rapidly taking notes and wearing his "dress" boots. LOL. I love the looks I got from one of the managers when I walked in there covered in dirt and paint with a disgusting looking hat on one day......it was one of those "that's not our target customer" looks.
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Yeah, the Expo is the Depot for people who don't want to pass pipes and valves to get to faucets. I guess the Expo's will be putting the kitchen and bath design show rooms out of business next, although I won't miss them....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
they have expo here on the west coast ( s.f. bay area ) never been but have herard both good and bad.
I'm not sure where ya'll are getting the "lousy wages" angle for HD. In my area, they are STARTING their cashiers at $10 an hour. If you can operate a fork lift, you get $12.50 an hour.
These ain't bad wages for the types of people they hire.
Of course, you ain't gonna raise a family on that, but I don't see many men of the house working there anyway. James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
I've been under the impression that HD employees are all Olympic Athletes! Tell me it's not so!
Many of the big chains, past and present, used to get unique model numbers for tools, tires, appliances, etc. so that the items would go to the right place for exchange or warranty (e.g. Sears and Canadian Tire had many self-warranty lines from everyone from Michelin, through Compaq, to Bosch) and couldn't be gray-marketed..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
A frequent use of different serial numbers in the retail business of all kinds is to avoid having to match prices on certain identical products, as in a product is not "identical" if it has a different serial number, therefore the price match or beat by 10% blurb doesn't apply.
I search for blurps.
Tim Mooney
Andy
Yes its true, not sure how it fits into your urban legend theory thing that you got going, the big box store in our area sold DeWalt tools, they had drills that were made just for them, same true with some of the plumbing supplies, ask a plumber if the Delta faucet(the one with the single handle) is the same if it comes from a plumb supply store or a bigbox. I'm sure its same story on numerous other items.
Doug
I just noticed my local HD's aren't carrying Ridgid plumbing handtools. Thought HD bought out Rigid...and that's where all the new Ridgid carpentry tools were comming from?
They trying to put the Ridgid plumbing stuff out of business.....or am I mixing up companies?
BTW...seems Ridgid is the only maker of an internal wrench that'll fit inside 1 1/2" pipe.....and very few places stock this item...and it runs about $50! But worth every penny once ya got it.......as it'll fit inside a corroded tub strainer basket. No more hacksaw and hope not to nick the tub/threads too much. Just a tip, Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
Jeff
You have it a little backwards.
The parent company is Emersom. They have a number of brands, Emerson Electric (motors), In-Sink-Erator, White-Rodgers, Wiegand, Applied Concepts (Robogrip pliers), Knaack, Weathergurad, Louisville Ladder, Ridge Tool (Ridgid), and many others that are more into industrial applications.
One division Emerson Tool Company used to make all of the stationary WW tools for Sears/Craftmans for about 30 years. A couple of years ago they lost that contract and then formed a new alliance with HD. They borrowed the Ridgid name from Ridge Tool, but it is really a separate operation.
They still make the wet dry vacs for Craftsman.
Most of my plumbing tools are from The Ridge Tool Co., and they are among the best. As always. As in WAAAAY before Home Defect.
Ken Hill
Perhaps its a new retail line and not an HD special but, the Schlage commercial duty deadbolts at HD are hybrid. They claim to be Heavy duty commercial deadbolts, they look like HD comm deadbolts, but the actual bolt is standard duty. The lock plug and tailpiece are different also. Needing a heavy duty deadbolt on a Sunday i bought one and had to butcher up a plug follower just to rekey the unique monstrosity.
joe d
I guess I'm a little late on the bandwagon here, but there is no question that certain items are of lower, or at least different, quality. One specific item I can mention is a Moen "Monticello" faucet. I installed one in my mother's house that I bought from a plumbing supply a few weeks ago, and then I saw one installed bought from HD. The one I bought came in a plain brown box, and among other things, had a 17 ga. chrome plated brass tailpiece. The one I saw from HD came in a fancy box and had a grey plastic tailpiece (PLASTIC?). I'm sure I paid more, but I know I got a better product.
Another anecdotal item is wire. If you compare romex (General Cable) bought at HD and at an electric supply, you will notice that the insulation is thinner. I can't prove it, but there is a difference. Also look at the receptacles from HD and the normal grade ones you buy from an electric supply. There is a definite difference.
Nails - I won't buy big boxes of nails at HD anymore. I bought two fifty pound boxes of 12D commons. Appx 1/3 of each boxes had missing or deformed heads. I am not kidding in the least. Same thing with screws. Went through a whole pile of boxes of 2-1/2" drywall screws that were only 2-1/8" long.
Metal cornerbeads - compare HD and a real drywall supply. HD's cornerbeads are thinner gauge metal, and usually have lumps of galvinizing on the corner. That is the ones that aren't bent to s**t by the idiots who stock the shelves.
Need I continue? I have to admit that I still buy certain items there, but I try to avoid items I know I'm going to have problems with.
Edited 6/9/2002 3:58:59 PM ET by Nick Pitz
> Nails - I won't buy big boxes of nails at HD anymore. I bought two fifty pound boxes of 12D commons. Appx 1/3 of each boxes had missing or deformed heads
Perhaps more important than where you buy them is where they're made. Avoid any metal items made in mainland China, I've seen a lot of them break.
-- J.S.
Just came from my local plumping supplier, and while I was waiting for my bill to be totaled (sitting on a nice padded stool) I asked the manager about the fixtures being sold at HD.
He basically said all the manufactures selling to Homey have an A line and a B line. They even go as far as to have separate sales reps. He showed me a for instance how the model numbers will be different for the same style Delta faucet and what it means. His store will price match to stay competitive, but when a homeowner comes in with a faucet from HD they get a wee bit upset when they realize they bought a crap version and the store will not price match junk.
Scott R.
Delta Faucets to start with. Inferior pop-ups and internal parts. They will say "Metal Pop Up" but is is a crappy piece of do-do like I never see elsewhere on Delta faucets.
I know for sure matag does this. I was on a job and got to talking with a dewalt rep. He told me that was true for their tools. Though that might have been a ploy bye him.
Elkay sinks has their own line of products that you can only get at home depot (or home desperate as I like to call it). The sinks have a prefix in the model # SLPF as opposed to the EL or ELU prefixes in their other "publiciliy" sold models. If you get a chance, take a micrometer to the SLPF3322 stainless steel sinks and an Elkay 3322. Tell me what you see. Also, note the difference in how the feel, and luster of the steel differs.
NO! and sometimes yes.
Nothing can beat the service of my usual lumberyard and I only have to handle the material once, when it comes off my truck at the job site. Same goes for electrical and plumbing supply houses. I may have to wait in line a couple minutes but the time I save looking for fittings and such is well worth the drive past any Home Depot. However when I'm working too far from my usual suppliers It's easy to find one of the big boxes.
its a fact that certain items are made for home depot...not an "urban legand"...for example..I called up the "MOEN" plumbing fixture customer service and they stated flat out the "GUTS" to their fixtures are lower quality than what you would buy at a real plumbing supply house...thats why the same item seems so much cheaper...MOEN stated they will still give you the same warranty ..but who cares about a warranty when the thing wears out in a month!!!...
I go to the "box" stores only if there are no other real lumber yards around. They are O.K. for paint buckets, latex gloves , aluminum ladders and velcro sandpaper. Forget about any actual lumber - what HD has is usually more expensive than the local (Washington DC) building supply companies. Plus, the locals actually carry cypress and mahogany stock. In my business, historic preservation, I need real wood, not miracle-whip.
I am beginning to think we all bring this topic up every other week, Just to get the HD rant of our chest..LOL
OK. Now here's one for ya. Tell me what YOU know about it. Is this an urban legend?..................
.........I was at one of my local lumberyards yesterday and mentioned that I was going to be needing a bunch of drywall for a job coming up. Salesperson says no problem, gives me a price competitive with HD. She also says that what HD sells is drywall 'seconds', in other words the stuff that the manufacturer has not given it's 'A' rating to, that the gypsum is not as dense as it is meant to be in top quality sheetrock. She said that the the manuf's. get rid of this stuff by the semi-load and dump it at Home Depot.
So, whatsupwiddat?
Ken Hill
I dunno Ken,
The version I heard was that HDs drywall wasn`t square. I`ve never actually checked so I can`t verify.
Plumbers swear to me that HDs stuff is lower quality, but why in the hell would Moen, Kohler, etc. put crap on the shelf anywhere? If I have trouble with a product I don`t blame the place I bought it.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I wouldn't expect a HD employee to know how to use or install something but I would expect him/her to know what they have on hand and where it is. I was in a HD the other day, in the electrical section, and I asked the guy if he had any "Conduit hangers" or even "Minnies" [from "Mineralac" perhaps the original maker]. And he didn't know. Eventually I found them myself on an upper shelf.
There are a lot of problems with Home Depot. It is based on bean counting - not supplying hardware, lumber, etc. What the stock is inconsistant. They keep changing brands and products. What is happening to the Husky line of tools?
Some people have taken advantage of their liberal return policy. They buy a tool, use it for a project and then return it and get their money back.
They have a half-hearted effort to cater to contractors. Contractors want Lenox hacksaw blades but HD has a house brand, Buck Brothers, which has a line of hacksaw blades so HD doesn't carry Lenox hacksaw blades. So the contractor has to go somewhere else to get the Lenox hacksaw blades. But HD does sell Lenox hole saws. Go figure.
- Peter
I just want to know why they go to the expense to put in 12 cash registers and on most occasions only 2 of them are open?????
I only go there to get low voltage wire for deck lights
What a zooBob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Totally agree on this one Bob, at least with the HD's near me
(outside Boston). Why they have 10 counters but only man 2 of
them with huge lines is beyond me.
But OTOH, I've found some of their salespeople to be very helpful.
In particular, the guys I've run into in the tile and the paint
departments have been very helpful when I redid one of my bathrooms
a year or two back. I'm sure I don't have the level of competence
most of you folks do who are involved with this work professionally,
and am guessing the store is more geared to the homeowner.
Ron
> But OTOH, I've found some of their salespeople to be very helpful.
I've found just the opposite. They do their best to avoid customers, and when you do find one, they don't know the answer. I think what's happening is that they get burned out by all day long getting asked questions they should know the answer to, but don't. How would you like it if all day long people walked up to you and asked questions about nuclear physics and French grammar?
-- J.S.
But THAT is thier JOb ! to answer questions, maybe if they screened the employees better..
I can`t speak for the rest of the nation but here in Westchester Cty. NY with the average cost of a home well over $300,000 and rent a steal at $1000/month plus utilities I don`t believe HD can afford to hire experienced or knowledgable aisle hands. I think its a catch 22. Keep costs down by keeping payroll minimal, keep payroll minimal by hiring less knowledgable sales personel.
In the end you get what you pay for.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
"In the end you get what you pay for."
Oh, is THAT where they give it to you?
lol
Excellence is its own reward!
Jaybird, you just said a mouthfull.
None of us will provide:
1. The fastest service
AND
2. The best quality in both service and workmanship
AND
3. The cheapest price.......
.......because if we did, we'd be out of business in a month.
In fact, no company, regardless of industry can. So then, why so much complaining about the big boxes that also cannot provide all three simultaneously?
Personally, I'm thrilled with both of the HDs here in Naples because unllike most of my peers, I'll tolerate the ocassional inconvenience (service), because I generally get great prices and more importantly, no more to my local lumberyard foloowed by another trip to Sherwin Williams, followed by another trip to the electrical shpply house, then the plumbing house, etc. - ONE BIG BOX with everything. Besides, since buying their stock several years ago, and more recently, I love them.
Instead of looking at the negative aspect, I look at the positive aspect.
Sonny,
"lumberyard foloowed by another trip to Sherwin Williams, followed by another trip to the electrical shpply house, then the plumbing house, etc. "
Where I am, I can hit each of those supply houses seperately, and still get in a full days work. If I attempted making those purchases at my local HD I`d be grabbing lunch on my way to the jobsite. If I saved a total of $100 on the supplies, it doesnt make up for the half day wasted in HD.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Since I spent over 100 grand at the local HD during my redo, I made it a point to get to know the store manager. One day as I was waiting in the looonngg line to check out, he walked by. I called him over and said, "Jim, I got a great idea for you to increase revenues." Quite interested, he said, "How?" I then said, "Pull out 2/3rds of these registers since they're never open anyway and replace them with more vendor displays. You've got dead square footage here."
He smiled and said, "O.K., I get it." The next day twice as many registers were open.
Of course, that didn't last long.
By the way, I found the low voltage wire at White Cap has much thicker insulation and many more as well as thinner strands of copper thereby making it easier to use.
My opinion of Home Depot.
I just "finished" building my own home. I bought all my lumber and associated items from the local lumber yard where the service was superb. There was the time that I was installing the TJI floor joists and I found one that had a crown in it that I could not use. It was well after six PM but I thought I would call the lumberyard anyway and maybe leave a message hoping I would get the replacement the next day. The owner was still at the office, answered the call, got a replacement joist and delivered it to me within an hour. HD wouldn't do that. Pencils and Hats, I got them by the handfull (almost everytime the lumberyard delivered) anything to me. For service; you are almost always better off with the local lumberyard. I had a unique situation where I wasn't quite sure how to size a large LVL header. The owner called up an architect friend and had an answer for me in 10 minutes.
On the other hand however; I was in HD so often during this project that most of the workers there knew me by name. Obviously, in a time of low unemployment, quality help is harder to find. But, in almost every department, I found at least one person that was both knowledgeable and helpful. The paint department "manager" lent me his paint sprayer for a few weeks after I asked him for the best way to paint my wood window grills. He was a painter for years before his back started causing him problems, the retirement and benefits package that HD offered him made the choice to go from self-employed to being an employee a very easy decision.
There have been several times when I was in line to check out and for whatever reason the line wasn't moving (computer problems or other reasons), the store manager pulled me out of line and recorded what I had, then sent me on my way. When I asked how he wanted me to pay for the stuff, he replied that they valued my business and realized that my time was important and that the dollar amount of the "goods" was inconsequential relative to the time I was spending in line.
Bottom Line: HD has its place. Can they be everything to everybody? No. They are convenient, they have good prices, you can get good advice from some of the employees but you can receive bad advice also. I'll continue to shop there.
Almost directly across the street there is a Lowe's. The prices tend to be higher and I have yet to find a knowledgeable person there. I have just about given up on shopping there.
I dunno Ken,
The version I heard was that HDs drywall wasn`t square. I`ve never actually checked so I can`t verify.
J. D. Reynolds
I don't think there is any way to manufacture unsquare drywall. That stuff is made in mile long sheets and chopped to length on a humongous freightrain of a contraption. It's not gonna make a wrong cut unless something is seriously out of whack. Joe H
It does happen. Recently I measured a sheet that was 3/16" out of square. From Homey to boot.
Wethead,
Don't take this as offensive but do you really consider 3/16th on a piece of drywall that critcial? Hell, I dent them up on the edges more than that just moving them around my jobsite.
I apprecite your accuracy if tolerances are that close. I'm lucky not to have a 1/4" gap between boards that I hang and then have to mud.
Mike
No, I don't. I was only making the point that it does happen. The other guy said it couldn't or something like that.
BTW, I can hang rock quite well. Did 12 houses. Had a good teacher. But I WILL NOT finish it myself. I heed my own advice about DIYer vs. PRO sometimes! LOL
> The version I heard was that HDs drywall wasn`t square. I`ve never actually checked so I can`t verify.
Of course it's not square. ;-) They make it special for all the people who build wall that aren't square. ;-)
-- J.S.
You are dead wrong. Homey does sell inferior quality plumbing stuff. It is a provable fact. Learn the facts before you spout off too much on this subject.
Easy there Stymie!
I didn`t say it wasn`t true... All I said was that I cant understand why a reputable company would make inferior products and soil their own name. They only hurt their own reputation in the long run.
The only one spouting here is you...you mentioned it being "provable" and yet you neglected to do so. So rather than attack me for something I didn`t say, why not attempt intelligent explanations involving your experiences with HD.
P.S. You`re also hollering at someone who doesn`t like HD to begin with. A waste of time and energy IMHO.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Sorry to ruffle you like that. And I did prove it with the facts soooo......
Ken....here's a thought as to whether it could happen. Years ago I was in fight school. A good friend worked for the FBO.....refueling the planes. When the tanker of fuel came in...it was his job to do a quick test on the fuel with the visual gauge....too much water or contaminant and the load was sent away....no sale. This was at the largest flight school/FBO on the county airport.
There were a few smaller...that sold their own fuel. If a tanker of fuel was sent away.....it would make the rounds to the other fueling stations.....let's just say the truck never left the airport full! Sooner or later...soneone else bought it for whatever price.
If that happens with avgas.....I'm sure it happens with building materials! Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
We have both Lowes and HD within 3-5 mins from the house. Lowes is by far the better store. I would never consider buying any lumber for anything meaningful there besides the odd 2x4. The help in some areas is decent. Others even I know more than they do about the items in their store.
I can also second the specialized product lines for HD vs. normal product lines. Bostich nailers are slightly different and have a different model number. The Bostich N60FN 15ga finish nailer was the N59FN at HD.....I ahve always wondered what the difference is.
SJ
I have remarked in one of the other zillion threads here on HD that I once bought 8 and 10 footers of rock and after staggering the 8's and 10's and couldnt figure out why my long seams didnt line up I took out my tape and the ten footers were
47 3/4". Pizzed me off!!!! I definatly "think " there are some items there that aint quite the same as in a small sized store but none the less...and for some reason I hate to say it but....some of my local lumber yards were gettin' a bit too big for their britches pre HD. Intensly high prices and crappy service. I live on the north shore of Long Island NY THE GOLD COAST! I have lumber yards all around me (4). I also have four HD within 15 minutes. I use all of em. They each have their place. I never ask too many questions at HD .........actually I never ask too many questions anywhere. The guys at the lumber yards just sell stuff..they dont build anything so as far as building goes......well you can ask about materials but thats about it. Experiance rules. I like HD. I do...sorry......I use it to help me. Who said its dimly lit? geezzzz.lame response IMHO....Inferior stuff? Well look at it first as I've learned. You do have to do that at HD. Sooooooooo???????? My yard charges almost eight bucks a board for rock and HD charges sixish. Just check everything first. I just bought fifty boards of rock that they had waiting for me ( I called the day before). They had two of their guys load up my van. I saved over a hundred dollars. Its a love hate realationship but I gotta tell you I love roaming around HD and buying tools and stuff I probably wont use for weeks to come : )
Be well
Namaste
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It may be ok for homeowners, nothing will bring a smile to your face quicker then seeing an accountant head out the door with a new 200amp panel box and a DIY electric book.
But for the pros, what about the competition factor? As the DIY market is drying up and by Depots own admission same store sales are flat, their next market is the professional contractors pocket. They install kitchens,carpet,hardwood flooring,pergo,counter tops,storm doors,entrance doors,windows,roofing,water heaters... and on and on and on....
It appears they are really after your business.
Sorry, but I have a fundemental problem with giving my competion money. On the other hand if you don't mind parting with your hard earned cash to your competition email me and I'll tell you where to send the checks to.
> and by Depots own admission same store sales are flat
This doesn't necessarily mean that the DIY market is drying up. Looking at the local HD, I'd have to say that the main reason sales would go flat is that there's no more room for customers to crowd into the place.
-- J.S.
GEOB21,
I have seen their installations and the issues they have. They are not the competition. Here they charge $105 to hang a storm door. I charge $100. I can do it in 90 minutes tops and it is straight and closes correctly. They can do it in 2 hours and it might close, might have all the screws, might..... then they leave anyway. DanT
Dan t-
Man 90 minutes for a storm door WOW. Let us all in on the secret PLEASE!!!!!
Typical storm door install for me..
2 calls to set appointment- 5 min
meet with customer (travel time)select style color,measure and order 90 min
schedule install -10 min
pick up door,set up,install, clean up,get paid.- 120 min
Try to line up another job following the door.. -45 min/maybe
Damn only got 1 done today but if you figure how much I got paid for actually installing it aint bad money
I agree I can install 1 in under 90 min at my house and even maybe my nieghbors but we both have one so I'm stuck looking for work outside my court.
Geob21, You make a good point! I don't beleive they will make it much further into the install market. The guys doing the installs are contractors like you and I and from what I here on this and other boards it's not easy being a HD contractor The HD's near me always have signs up looking for installers.
As for HD employees, the people at the register will spend all day shuffling through a book holding a ½"x 3" carriage bolt next to two dozen silhouettes trying to identify the stupid thang to scan it.
Everybody in an orange vest says hello to me, that is until I need help finding something then they are all on break or something. The one I do find is a know-it-all that doesn't know JACK!
Favorite Home DePot saying "The computer says we have six of them, but theirs none on the shelf" DUH!
Scott R.
"Favorite Home DePot saying "The computer says we have six of them, but they's none on the shelf"
When I worked at a Builder's Square a few years ago, that happened all the time. As one of the low dollar employees, I had no power to change that. I would complain to my boss but nothing would happen. Since we had plenty of the item in stock (according to the computer) but weren't selling any, the computer wouldn't order any. This would sometimes go on for 2 weeks until someone changed the little number in the computer so we got more of the item in.
Whomever said that the employees avoid the customers is right. Multiple bathroom trips, riding around on a forklift, hiding in the unloading dock - Whatever it took to avoid customer contact. It was an art, really. They should be admired for such extraordinary effort.......(-:
I was doing some plumbing installing up a sink and DW back and forth the both Blowes and the Home Dildo got bad advice and what I (and you guys to if ya saw'em" inferior quality supplies. I ended up going to Ace hardware and a plumbing store in town what a difference I cant compare the two. Now since the Dildo has changed their return policy, I really dont find any reason to go there. The Ace hardware is closer and no lines. Theres enough plumbing ,electrical, lumbre stores around where I can get everything I need . The only real reason I would even think about going to them is if I needed something when most of the other stores are closed. But like someone else said I you guys want some Home Dildo rants go to the archives its been killed resurected and killed again :) but its always fun to complain about them like therapy <G>. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
YOU were a Builders Square smock wearing good for nothing? The mental image is taking shape. Ha ha ha ha.
I have never met a soul at HD, Lowes, Builders Square, Heckingers etc. that I would EVER ask anything more than "where is X today?"
What kind of advice could they possibly tell you that you would actually listen to? Does the food chain get any lower? My drywall sub wound up there at 65(never put away for a pension, could'nt grip a blade anymore) they put him in charge of tools. I ask him what he knew about tools...his response...NOTHING. But If you tell me what you want, I can tell you where it is. But if you want a deal on that dewalt mitre saw stand, I can mark it down as a return and save you 75%.....nuff said. Advice... no thanks, markdown.......thanks so much.
Ya, everyone has to work somewhere.
I was going thru tax stuff and noticed 5 years ago I had one HD slip. This year I lost track of how many. How many of you that gripe say the same thing?
Why do you gripe and give them more business every year?
I know why I do, what's your story?
Btw, my older brother got a job at Hd, holy, I should smack him. I have yet to ask him what's up with that. Too bad he lives away...
I don't have your problem.
Coming in late on this but the timing is impecable... I'm a DIYer and went 45 mins to the closest HD on Saturday. If you've seen the commercial where the fair young lass, with the gallant aid of the trusty associate, installs her own floors??... All I can say is if she needed doors her house would still be pretty drafty. The only assistance I was able to pry out was that the doors were in the next aisle. And that's truly all he could tell me. I didn't even try the next aisle...
...if I had a hammer... oh, wait; I have a hammer... if I had a bigger hammer:))
Wet, you said you don't have my problem, and I assume you meant I had one slip 5 yrs ago, and have many now. You are lucky, HD put all of my random suppliers out of business, and just about every hardware store. I work all over and used to be able to stop here and there to pick up what I wanted, as I needed, where I thought it likely to find what I need. It has changed and I still have to pick up this or that on the way to work, or a part for a snafu. When you have a moment think of what it is like when you stop by someplace that you could have sworn was there yesterday and you drive up to a vacant lot. Mom and pop ran the place and the kid worked in the yard or in the back. I can think of 3 yards I buy from, and maybe 2 sawmills. This ain't your father's Oldmobile, that just covered 50 square miles.
You ,(I think are a plumber?), deal with supply houses, whole different thing. If you stocked my house from HD I would want to know when you died so I could relieve myself.
Way back someone mentioned working at HD. Was talking to a painter...who works in HD's paint dept part time. They now have pretty good health insurance for the pt guys. Guessing full time is even better.
Anyway...his deal.....he was gonna quit...then started pricing health ins for his family.....kids actually...wife that had the job with bennies decided to quit the team, so to speak...so he's self-employeed and looking for coverage.
At HD....if we works something like 12 hrs a week.....that qualifies and covers his monthly insurance. He needs to work one full shift on a weekend, and one half shift during the week. He said he'll plan to work one more half shift during the week just to make it worth while depositing the paycheck after deductions.
All in all......that wouldn't be a bad place to find PT work. We even considered sending the wife there PT for the insurance bennies! Or me!
Might consider it if things ever slow down so much to where the $510/month ins. payment looks like a payment we'd have trouble making. Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
Sorry I still haven't figured out how to respond to all but....
I happened to be is a Home Despot (under duress)and saw a small pry bar similair to one I had lost. Bought 3 of them for about $8.00 each. Well stupid me for buying a tool there, because they aren't tempered, Who is the Einsten buyer for them that thinks saving a few bucks will make them more money. I had to return all 3 and bought "Red Devil" brand from my locale Ace hardware.
What about vacation pay and stock options <G> Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Yep...
Keith -
I only did it for a while. When DW had our first kid we were struggling financially. She was out of commission for quite a while and we needed the second income. So I got a job there, as DW already worked there and it was easy to get hired.
Keep in mind that it was about 12 years ago - A lot can change in that span of time. If I didn't learn anything else there, I at least learned not to like the big boxes................(-:
Boss , you wanted to know a short time ago why you would be a kick in the pants . Good posted site my friend !!!!
Ok Im going to do this again because I seem to be different . Although we have blasted this subject to hamburger meat in the past, and yall are up to it again . So lets do it !!!!!
I love Lowes !!! Plain and simple . Ive posted before that I make part of my living buying. I spend time in my office getting quotes. That said , I use them to get lumber yards to match them . Lets take for one example a box of USG joint compound . Call every where else and price it with out going to Lowes. Go buy one box ,keep your reciept . Carry reciept to Lowes , and tell them that you would like the 10 percent discount for matching that item . They will match it and take an additional 10 percent off that price . So the girl says to me ; how much do you want sir ??? I say ; 4 pallets delivered to my shop on my AR account . They will deliver it free!!!!!!! Same thing with concrete blocks , sheet rock, blandex , or any thing that has the same manufator . It must be the same and quoted that way , or they will weasel out of it .
Smiling on my way to the bank
Tim Mooney
Tim,
I'm sure your boss loves your methods.
However something within which you describe, albeit acceptable according to CURRENT Lowes policies, suggests, let's say, a compromise of integrity.
I don't mean this as personal criticism (too much). It's just that these type of practices cause these firms to change their policies sooner or later.
And the rest of us end up paying for it in some form or another.
I said I love them being there , I didnt say any thing about respect !!!!!!!!! I dont care about them and they dont you. They are diy lovers , take our work away from us . I guess you could make up your mind which fence your riding , not to be too critical.
Tim Mooney
Regarding HDs next market, I read from an investment magazine an interview with the CEO. (It's obvious that he isn't reading this site, or is in denial) He said that they are changing their target market from DIY customers with annual incomes around $87,000 to those with annual incomes around $55,000 because the population base is larger in that demographic area.
That lowering of standards can only happen by lowering everything else, IMHO.
Excellence is its own reward!
Some of us pros don't have the time to open every damn box in the store to look if it's good or not. Do not condemn our complaints when you are incapable of understanding such complex issues. Stop oversimplifying this issue based on your limited experience in the areas we are discussing please.
Hey Wet Head,
You better wipe yourself after you go to the bathroom cause you sound a bit stuck on yourself
Be well homes
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Wetty,
Also..Ispose' over 27 years, full time in my own biz makes me an ametuer compared to you. Check out my website below the post. I did the whole thing after ripping down another house with two helpers....when I grow up I wanna be just like you..... "professional". And yeh..this is suchhhhh an important thread....so complex..If this is complex to you I have a good Dr. Suezz book for you to read,,LOL!! Lighten up dude.
Be well bro
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 6/10/2002 5:49:00 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
OOOOPS!
I got mixed up who I was talking to. I "knew" you were a pro. I was responding in my mind to another person entirely. I was in the wrong and to an embarrassing degree. I apologize.
Feel like you spend too much time at HD ? How about this guy, who spent 16 consecutive hours there on a bet.........
http://www.blueberryjohnsons.com/home_depot/hdlog.shtml
I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and think, "Well, that's not going to happen."
I'm a gen. contr. in Calif.. I got a Home Depot charge account at a time when I was spending on average $1000.00 a week there. I racked up about $1200.00 on a $2500.00 limit. After a really slow 5 month's, I was less than a week(5 days) late on 2 payments in a row, & they cut off my credit until furthur notice. It did'nt matter how much I spent in cash during this time , or how much business I'd do in the future. I also have accounts at several other small hdwre. stores & supply houses & they where always willing to work w/ me when I got in a jamb. Besides the obvious frustrations of going there for materials, I'm convinced that they sell factory second power tools(and or re-conditioned) & I never buy anything that contains glass or porcelein w/o opening the box & thoroughly checking for cracks or breakage. And never buy anything that has been opened & taped back together. (They are notorious for putting damaged/defective/returned items back on the shelf.) This is probably old news for most of you, but I had to get this out on my first time on "Breaktime".. I do my best to avoid H. D. if possible, even if it cost me !!
Couple years back I was in a big box and bought this humongous stack of lumber, ply 2x6 2x8 2x10s that were seconds, for like too cheap to pass up. ####-istant manager sees me start to move the lumber to a cart and says he'll get the forklift. I say no I'd rather cart it and load it myself. He says no he'll get the fork. OK why argue. Sends the kid and tells him not to band it. Long lengths of lumber too wide for aisles so kid says he'll meet me at front. I'm waiting and waiting finally go see whats going on when he comes around outside of building on the fork lift with the lumber. I pay at front he follows me to the pickup lowers forks some to slide lumber to the pickup bed. The reason he took so long bringing the lumber out is he had hit a dip in the pavement with the forks too high and spilled the load and had to reload it. We're sliding this high stack of misc lumber piece by piece into the bed when we move the plywood he had stacked in the middle height of the stack. The tension of the the plywood on the stack under it had held it upright till the plywood was moved and the loose nonstaggered stack of 2x10s underneath it fell over on my tennis shoe ladden foot. A corner of a 2x10 came down on the big toe and I felt the blood. And I had wanted to load it myself without the assistance of monkey manager and jr wonder. Kid gives me the face of 'that stuff happens' and a year later the new nail has grown back. Moral of story, trust common sense expectations of no one working at a box and wear steel toed boots daily.
Rez, doncha just hate it when another good deal turns to sheet? Joe H
Thing I don't get is......why didnt ya sue the box?????????You probably coulda srettled for what you make in a year "at least".......ok ok..don't kick yourself...wouldnt want ya to break another nail..cause you cant sue yourselfIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Justr a little curious andy, would you have sued the big box?
IN A HEARTBEAT!It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The HD's around me do have a covered loading area outside the Pro checkout. It is, unfortunately, usually very difficult to use this area with the 2 to 6 vehicles that are PARKED there while their drivers are inside making purchases, pit stops, coffee run, etc. There is no enforcement of the LOADING purpose of this area by the store and no common courtesy shown by those who believe the area is actually their personal parking space.
Thank you for listening to me vent.
Steve
sometimes it is a horrible world
"I described an event that took place a while ago. Andybuildz said I should have sued them. "
For what? What where your damages. Unless you where a toe model you losses where minor.
You might have gotten a $500-1000 for nusance factor.
You would have probably gotten more by complaining "strongly" to the manager.
I don't know. Actually I was shocked that he said it. I try to live in peace. I wouldn't sue anybody. All this stuff is foreign to me. Then it got me wondering how many tradesmen there are out there that would agree with him.
> Andybuildz said I should have sued them. Now I'm curious what other posters opinions might be regarding this matter.
Rez, what happened to you is a liability lawyer's wet dream. You had a real injury with blood and pain and suffering, medical expenses, lost work..... Absolutely you deserved to be compensated. But now it may be too late. The thing to do would have been to find out what kind of money usually changes hands in that kind of case, and start by talking to them about an out of court settlement. If they don't go for a reasonable deal, then move forward with the suit.
-- J.S.
I agree with considering a law suit. If HD wants to be so monstrously huge, gobbling up market share, then it needs to belly up to the bar and assume responsibility for its employees' actions. If they are wont to hire inept employees at the disgraceful wages they are willing to pay, then they damn well better be prepared to pay for things like this happening.
Ken Hill
Hmm, how do I start? I am a Home Depot employee, I read quite a bit on this forum but this thread made me want to register and post a reply.
I hate to post a reply defending every bad thing that has been said about the Home Depot. That just wouldn't be right, espically considering that HD is not perfect. In my thime at HD I have seen the good and the bad.
On the issue of returns: Yes, most things that come back do get put back on the shelf. I always inspect the returns that come back to my department to be sure they are in perfect condition. Some things get Returned to the Vendor (RTV'ed) or are simply marked down and thrown out. These are either the items that need to be repackaged, repaired, or are simply 7 years old like the caulk that came back yesterday. The new return ploicy is an aptempt to prevent theft and loss. Good for us, not so good for the 99.99% of our customers that are not theives.
On the issue of knowledgeable sales associates: Home Depot has recently began a program to hire more part time associates. Some argue that the part timers will have less knowledge that the full time associates, but that is not a blanket truth. Also, the apron says "I help in all departments". That can make things tough. I am very knowledgeable about my department, but I don't know a whole bunch about plumbing. There are roughly 11 departments in every HD, not counting the operational departments. Thats just too much information for every associate in the store to know. However, the people that work in each depatment should know their department. I realize that is not always the case though, and I somewhat blame HD policy. Their policy is that you can be taught everything by attending classes, but I believe that you need real world experience to back it up.
Get to know the guys at the Pro-Desk. Their job is to work with the contractors.
If you have problems, talk to an assistant manager or the store manager. They are at the top of the food chain, and can really do a lot to get things strightned out.
Finally, every store is different. I am thankful to be at a good store with solid management and excellent associates. The unfortunate truth is that some stores are worse off.
HomerGuy
Nice post and I appreciate the truth from an insider. What store do you work in?
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Well its about time for me to log back in on this thread. I like, and shop at Home Creepo. A new store opened up that I drive by all most any day I work. The staff tries hard and does a good job. The products are what they are and i can access that. The prices are good in general but they completely nick you on any nail, screw, bolt, nut, or washer. I loath the morning i really need any of these while i'm there.
Part of the their competitior's problem is their own making. The biggest local wholesale plumbing supplier is simply known as the F-word. The F-word will nick you everytime, blow-off your special orders, and provide severely inferior service everytime.
Some of the local wholesale electrical supply houses treat any non-account customer like people of color in the old south. Seperate lines, seperate hours, and #### service.
I like the local lumberyards, locksmith suppliers, and roofing supply houses.
So for every low class wholesaler there is a little bigger market for Home Creepo.
I've never darkened Walmart's door.
joe d
Portland OR
One day I was in a local electrical supply house when a gentleman, obviously not a contractor or electrician, came in. I was waiting for my boss to return a call about what materials he wanted. The counter man was polite but seemed a bit shorter than normal. After 3 trips by the counter man to the back bringing different parts out the gentleman nods and buys one of the parts.
Talking to the counter man I ask why he seemed put out. He answered that he didn't like serving untrained people much. He said that they don't know the language, greatly slowing the transaction, seldom knew what they needed, leading to many wasted trips and frequently returned the parts damaged while demanding cash refunds.
To him it seemed a great waste of time that seldom amounted to any profit while his work piled up around him. Contractors want orders filled and ready to go for 7 AM pick up. Stock comes in daily and must be sorted and shelved. The day ends when the job is done.
When possible he tries to direct them to HD, Lowes or any of the other retail outlets. After that I had to respect his position and the tolerance he had shown.
I appreciate that story but with all due respect, I don't buy it. Obviously, the guy that told you that was an EMPLOYEE and not the OWNER. I know many folks just like him in my area.
We all could say that about 90% of out customers. They don't know the language, they don't know exactly what they want and they change their minds alot. HOWEVER, if we all just tried to blow them off all the time, we'd all be out of business.
Being good at what you do requires going that little bit extra no matter what your profession.
Mike
While I can see his point to a degree, it is hardly respectable in my book. If the world worked like that in every industry we'd have a serious problem. Maybe the next time he wants tax help the accountant should be short with him and blow him off because he doesn't speak fluent IRS code. Maybe if this guys wants to buy a nice bottle of wine the store owner should point him towards the jug wine section because he doesn't want to "educate" this guy on wine selection.
While these are kind of silly examples, that is the same way I look at this guy not wanting to deal with "non-experts". While he may have point in that he makes more money for his time off the large orders and customers, it is hardly respectable to treat the "little" guy poorly.
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
"To him it seemed a great waste of time that seldom amounted to any profit while his work piled up around him.... "
Not being a contractor but "just" a homeowner, I have dealt with people like the one describe. Frankly, I like to see those put out of business by the chains. My money is just as green as the contractor's buying the same materials. I spend anywhere from $2000 to $20,000 in a given year in materials for my home.
ANY customer that walks through your door deserves respect and the best service you can deliver. If you don't do business this way, you ought to find another business. If you, as business owner, want to give special treatment to exceptional customers, no one could find fault in that. I do it for my "good" customers. But the first time, small job customer gets the same quality from me as do the large customers. I sell my services, and word of mouth and reputation is all I have to trade on.
I live out in the country and do business with the small businesses as much as possible. As I said, I am neither a builder or a constructor/contractor/installer. I allow a business to disrepect me as customer only once. At HD/Lowes/Menards I get what I pay for. I know what to expect, and it doesn't bother me. When I pay $0.75 for a precut stud, I don't mind sorting through the boomerangs to get some decent pieces. At $1.75/stud, that would pi** me off. At my local millwork shop, building supply, electrical supply, I also get what I pay for.
Funny you mention that , because whats the deal with Mcdonalds????
WE dont have very much time or why else would we stop there .[unless there is a kid in the car ] We pull up and order a quarter pounder deal, and they have us to pull up in the white square ????? Excuse me . A very high price for a very low quality meal, kid service, and now I have to blow a 1/2 hour lunch?????? I can eat at a resturant for the same money if I wanted an hour.
Well, I have that off my chest ,lol.
Tim Mooney
> When I pay $0.75 for a precut stud, I don't mind sorting through the boomerangs to get some decent pieces. At $1.75/stud,....
Jeez, where are you located? IIRC, the last time I looked at the 92" pretzels at Homey's, they were $2.29 or $2.99, something like that. Lowe's is farther away and about the same prices. There's a local lumber yard with worse service than HD and higher prices, and another that calls itself a lumber yard, but is really a big hardware store with a couple dozen pieces of wood outside.
-- J.S.
I'm in northern IL. In a city of 250,000, there are 4 big box stores. The $0.75/stud is an exaggeration, but I do get them on occassion at aroun $1. Normally around $2.50.
My wife and I always make a list and go early to our local HD or Lowes." You go that way, and I'll go this way" is usually the mantra for the day. About 1/2 hour later we meet in the middle and look at what the other couldn't find on our respective lists, and then begin the guessing game. 'Where could the (fill_in_the_blank_for_product_you_can't_find), be? Let's try isle 57...no,no it was in the front at Lowes, lets try the tool section. Wait, let's split up again - you go towards lumber and I'll search lawn and garden. Lawn and garden? Why would they put (fill_in_the_blank_for_product_you_can't_find) in lawn and garden?!"
Ah yes, a family bonding experience when we leave and high five that we got 8 of 10 items on our list!!!
As a DIY'er, I have found HD to be both convenient and maddening at the same time. It took them over 18 months to resolve a problem I had with a set of Wing french doors. He said/she said, lost orders, changing suppliers, no return calls. When I finally got it all squared away, I still didn't have exactly what I was looking for. I was worn down and my wife needed to have her living room finished. It was close enough.
Speaking of squared away and square drywall sheets (original post), I always thought drywall was a rectangular 4x8, 4x10, etc. ;-)
Speaking of squared away and square drywall sheets (original post), I always thought drywall was a rectangular 4x8, 4x10, etc. ;-)
It is , but they are wanting it perfectly square , which in my experience , doesnt normally exist . Oak plywood going for 50 dollars a sheet is not square.
Tim Mooney
It's been a long time, but I think the argument of the "Not square drywall" was that it was so far not square as to be cheap HD second quality junk. Not so, it's all the same square. Joe H
As a homeowner/do-it yourselfer I find Home Depot acceptable. It has its strong and weak points, just like we as individuals do.
I am in the process building a 900 square foot shop/garage addition to my home and have experienced some good in the process. The trusses were ordered and delivered, and were found to be an incorrect size. The paperwork was checked, the HD Pro desk manager who ordered the trusses did in fact, order the correct ones. A call was made, and the new trusses were delivered to the site within 48 hrs (old ones picked up too). this from a manufacturing company across theboarder in Canada (remember the 6 hour wait at customs?--it was during that time) I know the great response was the truss company's, but HD did pick upthe ball andhandle things right.
Another insulated double entrance door was ordered, and I got the rough opening size from the guy at HD before we blocked the opening and framed the wall. A two week wait turned into 7 weeks, and the door came a full 2 inched too tall and 3 inches too wide. HD guys admitted thay goofed, and gave me the incorrect dimensions (from a retrofit door size)( I had the R.O. dimensions listed on the special order sheet) HD gave me the option of reordering a special order door at no extra charge (they would eat the $350 increase in cost) but it would take another 5-7 weeks. The oter option is that I give them a list of all materials needed to reframe the wall and door opening (2x6 construction by the way) amd provide free rental of a cement saw and diamond blade to recut the block opening.
So, they have impressed me with their handling of these problems. I did not have to sit and argue to get this done. It was done civilly with apologies and no beating around the bush, something of a rarity in these times.
Edited 6/27/2002 8:57:52 AM ET by SMIJAL
Your post would carry more weight if you didn't just expose your ignorance of the world of business. Quit yer whinin'!
Nobody is obligated to sell to DIYers. And just because they choose to serve a different market... and you come in and cost them goodwill with the guys that spend 30K a month... while taking so much of their time they make no profit... why does that make you want them to go out of business?
Just for your info... a 2K to 3K a year customer is barely worth the time because it costs as much to service them as the profit they generate. I only do 15K to 20K a MONTH! If I would spread this amount out over 10 suppliers non of my accounts would be profitable and I would cost more than I would be worth to them.
That is why there is Home Depot. They are set up to serve your market. Use them and quit whining.
WHW, I wanna know, do Plumbers go into plumbing because they already can walk on water? Or is that something that comes later? Joe H
Whaddya mean? I am far from perfect. But at least I understand some basic business stuff.
I just get tired of these idiots who think they can do everything as well as a trained professional... and think they should be treated like one.
I am not anti-DIYer. I support it.
Shoot fire, I like it myslf. I recently replaced my hard drive in my lap top. Lots of fun and challenge. Works like a dream. But I don't go around whining that I don't get the same discount and the service the pros do.
Neither am I going around saying anyone can do this and insinuating that the pros are ripping people off for charging big bucks when anyone can do it.
I work hard at educating myself in technical matters as well as business matters. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know... and the more I realize every time some idiot opens their mouth to spout off how anyone can do this they are only exposing their ignorance to the world!
The only people that don't recognize that are ignorant themselves. I didn't say stupid... I said ignorant. Note the difference. Or maybe there isn't one. Sometimes I wonder....
And BTW, since when does pointing out some basic economic truths deserve this jab? Do you maybe feel a bit threatened when exposed to someone with a little bit of knowledge of the business world?
The Electrical supply house in question is a wholesale only business. They will not sell supplys to retail clients. They sell to contractors and businesses. They have a seperate semi-unstaffed line for any customer without an open account. That line is closed for an hour or 2 of their normal business hours. Even licensed electricians who don't have an open account get that line.
I work in many trades and shop at numerous wholesalers. That supplier and the F-word plumbing supplier are the worst.
joe d
Your post won't make me change my mind about the big boxes, but I'm still glad you posted. It's always nice to hear from someone with a different perspective. We've had very few around here that work in the supply side of the construction business.
Hope you hang around...........
I watched the Indy 500, and I was thinking that if they left earlier they wouldn't have to go so fast.
Like I said in a earlier post, One of the reasons I dont like Home Dildo is there new return policy, there I was in the middle of a job, my new rotozip took a dump (the button for the shaft lock popped of) I put it back into te ORANGE CASE brought it back, they wouldnt take cuz i didnt have a reciept. It was a new tool used only three times it wasnt even dirty or scratched, none of the attachments in the kit were used , i told the clerk i was in the middle of a job. He told me to take it to rotozip for repair. So I had to buy another one put the used in the box and return it. In order to complete the job. Notice I said "Orange Case", because Home Dildo is the only one who sells it in a Orange Case everyone else in the free world sells it in a Grey Case. That pimply faced clerk would nt give me another one I wanted another no money, no store credit just give me the darned tool so I could finish my work. I didnt have time to take it to rotozip, Heck I asked him where the Rotozip place was he didnt know , couldnt tell me , I just had to take it there. I wil not darken there doors again. unless its at night when on one else is open. But no I mean nada nothing as far as major purchases go.... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Ron
Arround here HD now gives you a store credit if you have no reciept.It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, I would of been happy to get one so I could go a get another rotozip. However they wouldnt. I asked them about it and told them i just wanted another rotozip so I could finish the job. But they wouldnt. The monkey behind the counteer told me that If it was longer than 30 days after I purchased it then I would have to take it to back to rotozip to get it repaired. Since I didnt have a reciept I couldnt prove it was purchased less than 30 days. S I had to go purchase another one and swap it with the broken one and return it to continue with the job. It dont exactly make since to me . Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
I understand your frustration with the return policy. Unfortunately, it was changed because too many people with no sense of decency took advantage of the old policy. I had a guy come up and complain that we would not return his 2.5 years old air compressor that died. Hey buddy, after two and a half years...Its yours! We have even returned used paint brushes, although she did have a reciept. All she did was ask to speak to a manager.
As I have said, I hate to be a big HD cheerleader. Heck, I don't even like to buy lumber there, its just too much of a hassle. I prefer to go to a real lumber yard.
One thing to remember is that HD began as a store for Do it Yourselfers. They have been our core customers since the first HD opened and probably always will be. Recently, we have began a Pro iniative designed to focus on the pro customer. I beleve there are a few HD Supply's open on the west coast that are part of this new program. These are stores that only deal with contractors.
A few weeks ago, we had a pro come in and want to purchase 200 gallons of Kilz. I couldn't believe the difficulty we gave that guy. Here is a guy that comes into our store all the time, wants to buy two grand worth of paint, and we give him the run around. Yet we are susposed to cater to the pro customer?
BTW, I work at a store in Michigan.
HomerGuy
I know there are some folks that juke the system. I was there and saw a lady try to return a spray outfit that look like it was used to paint about 40 track homes. She didnt speak english so She had her daughter interpret for her. I sort of speak Spainish so I understood what was happening. She said the gun was broken and wanted to return it. The only thing that didnt look torn up was the box(She even had the original box) . The guy was very gracious to them and told them that they would send it out and get it repaired at the manufacturer. Then the husband shows up ( Guess the macho man didnt have the cajones to do his own dirty work) and the Lady tells the husband that He couldnt get his money back and they take the spray outfit and leave.
Mine on the other hand was only used three times not scratched only the shaft lock button popped off. I needed a replacement to finish the job. It was even in a new orange case( HD own) like I said. But they wouldnt help me. I just wanted a new one to finish the job. I dont carry reciepts around in my pocket for every tool I buy do you. Common sense will tell if a tool has been used and abused most often just by looking at it. Hell this one wasnt even scratched or dirty. Im pretty disgusted with them right now. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
> Finally, every store is different. I am thankful to be at a good store with solid management and excellent associates. The unfortunate truth is that some stores are worse off.
Where are you located? Around here (LA) it's rare to find an HD employee who knows as much English as you do.
-- J.S.