I enjoy the DIY channel and have noticed a lot of carps on those shows toe-nailing wall studs with screws. I typically see them using a gold colored screw about 3″ long. Has this become a best practice? If so, what type and size of screw is acceptable for toe-nailing?
Thanks,
Michael
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Replies
My guess is that they are deck screws. Just as long as they are NOT drywall screws!
I "toe nail" with screws fairly often. Usually when remodeling and adding blocks to a wall which is already finished on the other side.
Less vibration to the finished side - I think it avoids nail pops, etc in the finished side.
>>I typically see them using a gold colored screw about 3" long.<<
I use #9 x 3-1/8" GRK R4 screws for this purpose. They are gold in color with a Torx drive, flat head. They are labeled as a "multi purpose screw" - they are not drywall screws!
More info and availability in your area - http://www.grkfasteners.com - the technical info line people are very helpful if you have any questions not answered on the site.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edit for correct screw model number.
Edited 7/16/2007 9:48 am ET by JTC1
Yep, that looks like the screw alright. Do you generally toe-nail into the thin or wide side of the board? Or does it matter with wall studs?New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
If you toe-nail into the narrow side of a stud the nail/screw will project slightly from the surface and keep drywall from laying flat. Not a big deal (sometimes ya gotta), as you can over-drive the fastener or smack the drywall after hanging to get it flat, but something to think about.Also, if toe-nailed on the wide side with at least two fasteners, the stud will usually better resist motion perpendicular to the plane of the wall than if toe-nailed on the narrow side. Again, not generally a big deal, but something to cosider.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Wide side preferred - 3 screws - 2 from one side, one from the other.
Sometimes you may have to screw into the narrow side if one side of the stud is not accessable. In that case, it is 2 screws in the wide side and 1 in the narrow.
If using an impact driver, even my "underpowered" Ryobi, the R4 GRK screws will burrow right in to the lumber and avoid the subsequent drywall problem which DanH mentioned.
Keep in mind I only use screws when I have a specific reason - mostly vibration of a finished wall. Economics - a gun nail is faster and about a penny, GRK screw is slower and about 11 cents each. $43.95 / tub of 425 screws.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Would 3 inch deck screws be sufficient for adding structural blocking in between joists (the kind that Home Depot sells?) I need to add blocking between my joists so I have enough nailing surfaces to support the new subfloor (rotted subfloor was ripped out in a 3x5' half bath.) I will using 2x6 lumber for the blocking.
Don't know enough about HD deck screws to answer your question.
My guess is that the screws marketed as deck screws are designed to screw down decking - no shear forces. Perhaps their web site could shed some light on the shear strength of the screws.
I personally would probably use joist hangers to support the blocking. Hanger manufacturers make and market screws for their hangers - usually kept right with the hangers in HD.
I assume there is a finished ceiling below the bath and you do not want to nail the blocking in place for fear of damaging the ceiling? If no ceiling below I would nail the blocking in place and be done.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I use pocket holes and #9 or 10 screws for that kind of situation.
"Would 3 inch deck screws be sufficient for adding structural blocking in between joists (the kind that Home Depot sells?)"
If you're talking about Deckmate screws, they're pretty good. They are far less brittle than drywall screws. I'm not sure what you mean by "structural blocking" to support a subfloor. Blocking joists is usually done to keep the joists from twisting under load. I use T&G ply for subfloors so the joints are self-supporting.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Do they make special "toe screws", similar to toe nails?I asked at the lumberyard, and they looked at me like I was nuts.
Q: What kind of coffee was served on the titanic?
A: Sanka.
No, you should be asking for oblique threaded fasteners. And there aren't any nuts made to fit them
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
plenty of nuts to fit toescrews right here in this forum;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The nuts here don't fit nuttin'.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Typical blocking would have them fitted snug to prevent joist deflection so the fastenrs experience almost no stress whatsoever, but since he is doing asmall space where T&G ply won't work, these supporting blocks would indeed be supporting some vertical live loading
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Exactly correct!!! I had to cut out the subfloor due to rot from a toilet bowl leak. I now need to add blocking in between the joists so I can have 1) a nailing surface for the new plywood floor and 2) vertical support.
The problem I have is that there isn't enough room for me to swing a hammer...ergo the screws.
Use hangers and screws. If possible get some of the special hanger screws.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Ah. Not exactly blocking then. I'd do what DanH says -- use hangers if you can. You don't want a spongy floor under the throne.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Note that another option for splicing pieces of subfloor together is to screw (and maybe glue) a splice block across the joint. A piece of 3/4" plywood a couple of inches narrower than the joist space and maybe 18" long, with a dozen screws into it.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
what is a carpenter doing on a DIY show?
Is this a carpenter show or a DIY show?
Not arguing, just cinfused.
GRKCanaca has good structural screws that fit the description. #10 x 3-1/8" Torx drive #25 I think
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
"what is a carpenter doing on a DIY show?"
C'mon, Piffin. Surely the names "Norm", "Tom", "Holmes", etc. ring a bell.
I know, I know. You New England pros are too modest to watch yourselves on television.
:)New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
A carpenter is there to show the DIYer what is a reasonable hook-up under the existing conditions; the idea is to teach.....................................
"If all else fails, read the directions"
I don't watch them much but my view when I did was that they always skip over the hard parts where DIY folks would actually need to learn something abnout how,
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
toe nails should always be in the wide side of the stud
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No, they should always be at the end of the toe.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"...they always skip over the hard parts where DIY folks would actually need to learn something about how.."
Yep. It's amazing how they demo everything in sight with a sledge hammer, and yet afterwards they never seem to encounter a single wall that's out of plumb.
No matter what kind of floor covering they install, or what room it happens to adjoin, there never seems to be an issue with differing floor heights.
I must've seen a thousand recip blades rip blindly through a piece of drywall, and yet I can't seem to recall a single severed electrical cable.
They're constantly reminding folks of the importance of pulling permits. Yet, they always seem to be able to peform structural and mechanical renovations within the time frame of one short weekend, including the finish. I guess the inspectors where they live work around the clock.
Gee, it must be wonderful in their world.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
My expertize is in the plumbing, heating, mechanical part of the construction trades. Even though I've done framing, tile, concrete, etc. it's the simple things [that I don't know] that drive me up the wall!. I don't think that these shows have the time to show the total installation of anything; you have to glean whatever you can, lots of luck.
"Best Pratice" is soooo situational.
SamT
I've certainly done it (and with Piffin screws, no less). Any time you're doing remodeling, the vibration from hammering can be an issue. Plus with screws you can more accurately control stud placement.
I do use screws in remo work to avoid damaging other parts of the house, but that last statement baffles me. I can nail a stud in the same place I would screw it - neither one being easier or harder with respect to where the stud ends up
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
toe screwing ( like toe nailing) is something I do often. I highly recommend purchasing a # 8 Fuller countersink tapered drill bit with a 3/8 cutter to pre drill any hole. Then use a #8 x 3 inch screw. I use alot of 3 inch gold colored screws. Sometimes more screws than nails. Of course, if you pre drill to high up and to wide of an angle the 3 inch screw won't help.