First I wasnt sure where to put this one .
Second , not sure how I want to word it , but Ill try it in a short form.
Im thinking of changing my practice a little bit to small jobs instead of big ones. [ just thinking ] My problem is tool transportation. Ive never tried to haul the number of tools a small job would require and I think it would be the niche to have them all on board. [not sure] Ive tried to do small jobs before and they have ended up costing me money [ in some areas]. I heard someone [I think Sonny ] live the job to be done the first time in his head writing as he did the job. If I dont haul the tools I guess I need storage boxes with each trade, or tool boxes. Not all of it goes in tool boxes . Sometimes totes are better. I have a shop I can pull into and transfer . Materials would need to be kept in inventory also to a degree. [mud and tape , quick set , white paint , primer, traps etc, screws , nails , putty, caulk , the list is endless doing several trades] Ive noticed how efficient plumbers are to name one and most of it is the fittings on board to finish the job. They dont run to the hardware store very often , but I do. Ive been set for drywall repairs for years because I get those calls even today . Ive got an inventory of different muds , tapes, etc to handle jobs very quickly. I keep and match paint to cover repairs on site along with different textures. I could roll on and on but I just wanted to sat enough for you to get the idea . I would sure appreciate hearing from someone who has this down , cause I dont and Im always trying to do it better.
I guess it wouldnt do the thread justice if we didnt mention the rig of choice. So if we are going to mention that I will have to be more clear on job description. Tear out , plumbing , electrical, drywall , trim , painting ,finish flooring , fixtures, clean up in maybe just one day or part of a day.
Tim Mooney
Edited 1/5/2004 5:42:44 PM ET by Tim Mooney
Replies
I operate a lot like that Tim.
i'll have one large job running and spend 2-6 hours there every day buit also have several smaller jobs lined up so nobody has to run out of work for a day. I often do these alone to.
Or one year, I had a large job with the crew taking vare of it whiole I was across the road doing a kitchen alone. Co-ordination on that one worked pretty good.
by handling small jobs for folks, I get leads to the bigger jobs, like the thousand dollar porch repair that turned into a 37K kitchen followed by a 250K renovation upstairs.
I have a 12'ex-Ryder van - GMC cube van. There are toins of them available for 5-8,000 dollars. I like the fact that it is a low cube. Doing handyman stuff and other small jobs, you are climbing into it twenty time a day and a hicube will wear you out.
With racks in it, I can carry just about everything and have a slot down the middle to haul sheet goods or a door when I need to. Most larger orders get delivered to site anyway. I have a lot of portable and benchtop tools to be able to setup like John Carrol's article showed.
The climate here is damp and rainy often so I don't have to have rain running down my neck when I am searching the bins for the right screws oir whatever.
I lust for one of Dodges Sprinter Vans with the Mercedes deisel and low platform with stand up headroom.
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks a bunch for responding .
I dont want to talk about my health condition any more but I need to say that I need to do things different for me to be "able to work". I hope this thread will benifit others , not just me trying to figgure it out. This could be anyone to day or as short as tomorrow health permitting. I cant lift bending over is the main problem . [12 ft 5/8s board is gone forever].
I like what I hear so far from you , but I dont need the plywood bins. I need to dolly on and off , so I like the ex rider truck in 12 ft 1 ton. [with ramp I hope] Brother worked out of a bread truck on Marthas Vineard. 12ft one ton also , but with no ramp of course. He swore by it . He put big and small bins it.
Can you get it all in a 12 ft box? Or do you need a semi? :)
I will follow up in the next post some more .
Tim Mooney
I think there are more ramps built into the 14' ones. You'll have to shop a little harder for that.
You also need to do what I have been up to, looking for a young buck to teach under my wing who can handle some of the heavier stuff.
I remember once many moons gone by. My buddy and I were planning a backpacking trip in Idaho. The owner of the shop in Fla where we bought the gear knew a guy in idaho who had horses and loved getting out into the mtns.
but he had had a heart attack or two and hiw wife and doctor would not let him go out alone any more.
His place became our base camp for a month. WE did a few trips with him up to three days each. We were along to help him with the heavy stuff, and he was along to teach the greenhorns how to survive, and to find the best spots.
To earn our keep at the ranch, we did chores, and his wife put on a table that would give anybody a heart attack - one of those Roy Rodgers movie meals with PILES of food all over the place.
Memories pop up in the strangest places.
Excellence is its own reward!
I should add that I have certain items in those large rectangular Rubbermaid carriers, some of which are not always in the van. I have one for the HVLP
One for lights, bulbs, and those sixway power strips
One for all my drywall knives, a hawk and some tape.
One for glues of many kinds and the West system.
one that stays in the truck is an assortment of salvaged door hardware, for matching these old mortise in locksets parts and repairs..
Excellence is its own reward!
Im gonna bump this a little bit .
I enjoyed the story with the older man . Wish Id been there .
Ive tried two young bucks already and as of yet it hasnt worked . It might be me . I can do big jobs with youngins , but the smaller the job the more complicated condensed working the unexperienced . But you already knew that didnt you ? Going very big is the other option pushing several young bucks. I dont wish to do the travel. [yet]
You mention more things you carry part time and I didnt even get started. I have the rentals and it takes nearly a box truck for that . [not really] I do carry floor buffers , steam cleaner, different vacumns . I have a vacumn that sets on the truck with a pool hose that runs inside . I even have silly stuff like a light bulb box ! Yea , it carries all the types of bulbs I use . I can rebuild a door chime , change the fan motor on a fart fan , change thermostat in a hot water heater and on and on. Ive got special screws just for mini blinds , parts for byfolds, repair kits for faucets , etc.
You mentioned the old lock sets you like to carry with you. Thats just one thing that shows were all different.
I have no idea how you teach all we have talked about so far unless Dan T wants to work for me. :)
My mind is really on what Sonny was teaching , but you knew I was thinking about money didnt you ?
Tim Mooney
what was sonny teaching? forgive the incorrect quote from piffin, read in a previous thread, congratulating someone for thinking like a businessman with a hammer instead of the other way around. it occurs to me to do something simple, build a base of demand, then plug in other/s while you manage the business and get the work. what you are doing (tim) is very complicated, hard to learn all that stuff, concentrate on replacing water heaters for example, or whatever else, then plug in the employees. thats the basis of gerstels book in my simplified understanding of it.
i am learning the business end of construction, from classes, reading, and the brainstorming this forum brings to light. frequently in construction i find that the best instructor is the one who has recently learned the lesson, it is fresh in his mind how he came to understand the information in question, and relays it as such.
Sonny taught the money part of the business mostly . From selling to management . Many here thought he took the one man show to another level and I agree . He could have sold a book on it because its great sounding stuff. I have to be honest that I never thought I could do it in my locale , but he said he could do it where I live . Anyway , he charged for all kinds of stuff we give away like estimates. If you didnt follow what he did , just part of it would help most.
One of the points to this thread is being able to produce money from small jobs in excess of what normal tradesmen make period. Small jobs should be bid because they should bring their real worth. Over and over people say they cant get contractors to return their calls. Being one , I know one has been I dont want to mess with something I wont make money doing . Ive worked it all my life and most of the time is down time with small jobs. They bring a high dollar amount though because most carps are billed out by the hour to do them by a big firm . Doing several small things on bid could produce 500 per day for example if it wasnt on the same customer . No one complains here about 75 dollars for a light fan hung . I can hang over 500 dollars of them a day if they are with in close driving distance . Thats just a very small example.
I dont know the things I do are hard , but I know this ; contractors dont want to pay what its worth to know several things good enough to compete with tradesmen that make a living doing one thing . On the flip side contractors dont employ many that can trace a short , install a commode , hang and finish drywall , paint , and lay a tile floor in one day . For one thing it takes a system to get those things done in one day . There are several older guys on the forum that can do it, or simialar things. Its certainly not unheard of and probably common with the older guys.
Im trying to make the best of my health condition and make money doing it . Good money. If I dont make as well as I want Ill switch again till I find it . Just like fishing I guess. So, in a nut shell :
Small jobs bring big money per piece work because for most they are time consuming. [worth it ]
Being set up to haul various tools and materials with out going to the shop or the store saves big time = big money if handled . Gter done !
Tim Mooney
I did that kinda work for years before expanding ...
Worked fine outta a van.
Just gotta plan a little better ... or still plan on that trip to the store for the one part ya don;t happen to have.
A regular van would work .... better with some creative shelves/bins ...
like the idea I had once ... for the left side to "lean" ... have everything built at an angle .... fatter at the bottom ... maybe a total of 6 inches narrower at the top .... I saw it as either shelves or bins ....
That way ... when ya slide the 4x8 sheets in ... standing up ... but at an angle to get them thru the rear doors .... they just slide right over ... nice and tight ...
even thought about adding a strip of 1x to the floor .... lengthwise ... to act as the bottom stop.
This would only work when a handfull of sheets are needed at one time ....
a bigger load would be better with everything built to keep the floor open at least 4 and some wide ....
Doing that kinda work ... I'd think tool storage would over rule big load materials storage ....
Today ... had to almost completely empty the van ...
Customer told me the flooring and ceiling tiles he ordered ... were "pick up only"!
So I'm gonna recommend a one ton at the minimum!
1200ft sq real wood laminate .... 400ft sq laminate ..... 150 sq ft ceramic tile ....
and 1600ft sq of the heaviest plastic padded underlayment I ever lifted!
I'd say a one ton regular van the min ...
My next move up is gonna be a 10 low cube ... city driving ... limited parking ....
12ft'er are actually cheaper around here ... more of them ....
Or .... if I could swing it ...
a nice utility box van. .... just need to find an extra 25K or so .....
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I didin know you were wishin for a biggin.
Tim Mooney
Tim,
I think you need a tractor trailer
Novy, thats been said before gurl, and you are probably right . If its true than a feller needs to work out of a well organized shop.
Thanks ,
Tim Mooney
Tim, the renovation work I do usually has me setting up and tearing down daily, and I do everything under the sun except roofing (liability excluded, not that I would do it anyway.)
Earlier this year I bought a used search and rescue vehicle from the Orange County S&R Dpt. There are 6 lockboxes on the outside and four 8' long shelves inside. I made an 8' long 18" wide tool slider that accomodates my SCMS, air compressor, and table saw, which is a back saver. I have Totes for electrical, plumbing, drywall and painting, and load them from my shop when it's necessary. The exterior lockboxes hold all portable power tools and consumable items, and access is as simple as turning the handle with your feet still on the ground. The only tools I don't carry are specialty tools that are rarely used and are easy enough to predict when they might be needed (laminate trimmer, hinge and lockset kits, etc.)
As good as any setup is, however, it can always be improved. I'm setting aside funds for a van-type vehicle (like Pifins cube) but I want the exterior lock boxes, they're just too convenient to do without.
Good luck with the decision.
Nick , thanks for the reply.
Ill use your set up as an example but I could use Piffin or Jeffs van. Jeff is very proud of his set up which is a normal van with built ins. You mention the boxes built in and Im wondering as I always have wondered about stationary tool boxes I dont like on pick ups all the time , but cant live with out most every day. Seems like every thing is give away this and get that there . Do you have it all on board that you nedd most every day or is it switched?
Tim Mooney
The past two weeks I've hung 6 panel doors, bifold doors, built a frame and panel door and jamb set, made my own casings and baseboards, fitted out a closet, bedroom and hall, did some lightweight mud work to prep for window trim, and manufactured my own sills, and everything came from the truck, as it is. The reno is the second story of a 150 yo Gambrel Colonial, where the only square in the building is me. I brought a laminate trimmer to mortise the hinges on the doors, but that's the only thing I've needed in addition to what I carry. And I could keep that in the truck, but I don't use it enough to warrant keeping it with me.
Honestly, I was driving through the rain this morning and remembering when I used to load tools and materials everyday in my pickup, then unload at night. I got too old for that. The lock boxes on the exterior are my salvation; no bending over boxes in the bed of a truck to root around for a tool that may or may not be where you thought you put it last. I know which tool is in which box. Caulks, glues, sandpapers., etc. are in their own box. I tell you, I get high just thinking about all the time NOT wasted because I have (almost) everything I need on that truck. And the slider has been great, I yank it out and move the tools where they need to go, without bending over once.
Let's face it, you're only young once, and for me, that was some time ago, and I realize it. It's a physical job, a great job, and a job I want to continue to work at for years, but a big caveat to that is good health. Whatever I can do to maintain my health or increase my productivity is more the justified cost-wise.
Sorry for the length. I love that truck, though I would trade it in a heartbeat on a cube van with exterior boxes. They're the best. Or at least I think so. Gotta go stash some more pennies in the van jar.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Saving time not loading and unloading .
We are talking about making more money and easier .
I like this thread already . :)
Tim Mooney
Hi Tim, I live in Maine, arround here depending on the season, I do just about everything I work with my friend steve and weve done it all additions, replacement doors windows blah blah blah , (summers) building decks , exterior restoration, including painting, fall start to find indoor work- bathrooms, tile work,painting (winter ) I even have a snowblower that if asked by a customer ill do there driveway ( Fall )close down camps with friend robert when im not to busy ( My Point)---- I do everything and have all the tools to do it .I have a 12ft cargo trailer that everything fits into . I also have a heavy dury utility trailer to pick up materials and haul building debre to the dump with,in my trailer is anything from drywall tools to painting, woodworking - tablesaw/ chopsaw-slid 12in/routers framing nailers 2 finish nailers roofing nailers 2 compressors, pancake and 25 gal tank on wheels, step ladder 4ft onboard , have 6ft, 8, 24,28,32,that i keep at home blah blah blah .......anyways i need my tools with me so i can make a living here because i cant work for somone and i dont want a crew and all the headachs that go with that been there done that moneys good but i had no peace and i like to work but i also think its all about pleasure and my life is real fun and we own our house and we dont waste money away on cruses and the like the only thing i spend money on is tools and kids and my wife is like minded shes an artist and only buys art stuff its a good life i like being flexable the last job i did was a bathroom and the roof was leaking before we started the job so we did that too and had 5 weeks of work by the time the owner finished finding stuff for us to do. all at 25.00 per hour each . I like doing everything that way i can always find work even on snowdays when we get 17 in of snow. and i always have my tools with me its fun dogboy P.S. i just wanted to say my boxtrailers back door is a ramp and my big stuff Tablesaw and chopsaws are on there own stands with wheels and i never lift them i roll them ,much easer good luck
Edited 1/5/2004 10:07:54 PM ET by dogboy
Dogboy, can I ask you what you clear a year on average?
Rez , this is quite a personal question, but all I can really say is my income runs up and down durring the summer arround here I can take home between 750.00 and 1000.00 per week durring the winter it drops dramitically to arround 500. per week and I also have arround 6 to 8 weeks off from lack of work and holidays that I actually look forward to so I can get stuff done arround the house. this never stays the same three years ago i couldnt keep up with the work then 9/11 happened and the money just dried up and that year I had several jobs delayed for about a year and they were durring the winter so it wasnt a great winter . thats why I am so flexable with work.including working for a friend last winter for 500.00 per week last winter making kitchen cabinets with ceramic counters / he supplyed all materials and sawblades it wasnt a bade gig. dogboy
Ya, sorry about my lack of finesse with the words. What I was wanting to know was what a versatile tradesman as yourself could expect to bring in if he really knuckled down and pursued work.
I again found myself driving down the road wondering if I worded a post in the right way.
I hate it when that happens.
Thanks for the insight.
Are you thinking about doing such as business?
Tim Mooney
I've been pecking more steady at this for probably 10 years now I guess. Sometimes I marvel at the work I have to fix and somebody was getting paid to do that stuff.
I get compliments from people on stuff and they ask for a business card. Cracks me up cause I think all I do is just perform the work in a reasonable manner and that's about it. Nothing real special like some of the work that gets shown on BT.
Then I get a gander at what some guys make doing renovations and it gives me pause for reflection.
Then some off the stuff you guys have to deal with in the process snaps me back to reality. Irate clients, no payment folk, lawyers, legalese, paperwork, government stuff. And suddenly life's not so simple anymore. That'd be half tempted to steal my joy. Sucks.
I have a hard time sitting down to do paperwork and returning phone calls. Or work inside someone's house while they are living there. A whole new arena of responsibility and attentiveness to details comes into play then. I'd have to really be paid to go ahead and accept that.
So now I'm just trying to gather data and ponder things a bit is all.
hey dont worry about it , somtines i go out of my way just to say the wrong thing only to get a reaction , but to your question in the right place you could make good money. /my wife grew up in New Jersey an we go back there 2 to 3 times a year and one time i went with my bro in/law to hang an eletric awning for a customer of his and it took us 45 min and after material cost he made about 400.00 and he could do 4 to 6 of these per day depending on driving. theres always a gimmic wherever you are. one time i saw a guy that only did gutters and he did 4 houses per day at 200.00 a pop plus mat cost. when i push myself I bring home 200.00 to 300.00 a dayand only work about 6 hrs each day / Woof Woof Dogboy