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Door Construction

dogman | Posted in Construction Techniques on August 10, 2004 05:40am

Hi All,

 I am looking for some ideas for building a set of doors to access the walkout basement of my getaway camp that I am building in Maine. The r/o is about 7’x7′. I am thinking of using painted t&g pine on the outside, foam insulation in the center, and 3/4 plywood on the inside. I want to be able to drive an ATV or a snowmobile right inside the basement so I would like to avoid a threshold. The floor has not been poured yet, so I am thinking of having a 1 ” or so step that the outswing doors would close against. Also plan to put a barn sash in each door for looks and extra light in the basement. Any ideas regarding materials , design or weatherproofing would be appreciated.

 The mason that I have been speaking to about building a chimney on the camp tells me that the entire chimney has to be 2″ away from any combustible material. In other words, aside from being tied to the gable end by metal ties, the chimney will basically be freestanding 2″ away from the plywood sheathing. How can I close this gap up, the chimney is going to be stone and the siding on the camp will be cedar shingles. I have been thinking of using cement board screwed to a steel stud, but I do’t know how well that would work.or what it would look like. Again, any ideas would be welcomed.

Thanks, Dogman

dogman

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Replies

  1. gdavis62 | Aug 10, 2004 02:47pm | #1

    Consider a rollup door, like a small garage door.  If you have 12" of ceiling clearance above the header on the inside, it should be easy.  You can make insulated panels using a 2x2 frame, thin plywood skins, and trim the outside any way you want.

    Outswing doors are hard to open when it has snowed a bunch overnight.

    Don't understand your chimney dilemma.  Need more info.

  2. User avater
    EricPaulson | Aug 12, 2004 01:36am | #2

    Dog,

    You need to do more research on the chimney thing. Masonry should be zero clearance.

    Eric

    Every once in a while, something goes right!
    1. Snort | Aug 12, 2004 01:51am | #3

      Must be regional. Here, NC, wood framing can't be closer than 2" to a masonry chimney. Wooden trim can be zero clearance. Don't worry, we can fix that later!

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Aug 12, 2004 02:01am | #4

        huh...In Jackson Co. NC, I made a 4x4 cedar, bevelled at a 45, and filled inbetween the log wall and a block chimney,, the stoners came an glued on face stone right up to my trim..

        so the space was still there at the log wall, but hell, my trim was a 4x4...it passed.

        I guess it depends on who sees what. 

        Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

        1. Snort | Aug 13, 2004 02:34am | #8

          Uh, yeah? Don't worry, we can fix that later!

          1. User avater
            Sphere | Aug 17, 2004 07:30pm | #9

            just got back from the fest..

            what I was tryin to say is, when/why is TRIM different than framing? if I use a 4x4 for trim..tieing block chimney to a log wall (which actually is NOT "frameing") where is the line drawn? Half inch thick trim?

            Just didn't seem to make sense to me.. 

            Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

          2. jimblodgett | Aug 17, 2004 10:12pm | #10

            Since when do building codes always make sense?

          3. User avater
            Sphere | Aug 17, 2004 10:44pm | #11

            right on, just was curious what the definition of "TRIM" is..or, what 'is' is...lol.

            Great to have met ya pinhole man..cool thing ya got cookin there! 

            Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

          4. Snort | Aug 17, 2004 11:26pm | #12

            Like Jim sez, eliphino. We've held back 2" since I started constrution in the 60's, course, back then, maybe we just thought we did;-)

            Like I said, it sounds regional. Here, framing is structure, trim is anything else, no matter how big. I always guessed the fluff burnt first<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!

          5. jimblodgett | Aug 18, 2004 08:06am | #13

            I always thought we gave that 2" clearance to avoid the framing absorbing moisture through the masonry...never thought it was about flamability issues.

            Good to meet you too, sphere.  Met a ton of folks from this board over the years and can't rember ever regretting it.

          6. Snort | Aug 19, 2004 12:23am | #14

            See, it's regional, you danged Wet Coasters...HA, HA, HA!

            I will discuss it thoroughly with you at the next fest<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!

          7. Piffin | Aug 19, 2004 05:48am | #17

            "to avoid the framing absorbing moisture through the masonry.."

            Spoken as something only someone from the Pacific Rainforest ...

            ;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          8. Piffin | Aug 19, 2004 05:45am | #16

            That probably has a lot to do with it from the fireman's point of view. Once the house is burning, he doesn't mind if a piece of trim torches and falls away, but he doesn't want the floor falling down on his head.

            ;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. Piffin | Aug 19, 2004 05:43am | #15

            "when/why is TRIM different than framing?"

            man, We could have settled this at the fest if you had just brung it up!

            ;)

            In a situation like this, wood does not generally just spontaneously erupt in flames at the first hot fire. There is a process by which the chemical makeup of wood is changed - charcoaled sort of. There is a name for it that escapes me now, but essentially what happens is that the flash point (the temp at which spontaneous combustion occours) is lowered gradually be repeated heating from say 475°F to 410 or even 400°F, so it gradually gets more likely to become dangerous.

            Framing is generally hidden from view, so as it darkens from the repeated scorchings, no one sees it or is aware of it. but if you notice a scorched spot on your wood trim, it will get you notice and you will begin to investigate and do something about it.

            Consider too, that the mortar will eventually weaken and fail, sooner when there have been recurrent chimney fires ( more common than you might think) and when that mortaar weakens, there is increased chance of flame exposure to any wod the might be in contact with it. Exterior trim is located where repointing takes care of that. Enclosed framing is located where there is minimal chance that the masonry will ever be re-pointed.

            Trim also is necessary to satisfy other building standards so the compromise is reality based. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          10. agribble99 | Aug 26, 2004 11:16am | #18

            Hey guys - help!

            My mason put a stone veneer on the concrete fireplace with only a 3/4" gap to the framing.  Do we have to tear the stone out?  The plans call out 2". 

            I'm in Southern California.

          11. JohnSprung | Sep 01, 2004 02:17am | #23

            > There is a process by which the chemical makeup of wood is changed - charcoaled sort of. There is a name for it that escapes me now, ....

            I think the word is pyrolysis.  Our fire department's community emergency response training included some info on the problem of hot gasses escaping thru earthquake damaged chimneys and doing this to the framing, which makes it burn easier.

            -- J.S.

          12. handhewn | Sep 01, 2004 02:57am | #24

            Here in PA, The chimney must be 2" from framing INSIDE the structure. If the chimney is outside the structure then zero applies.

            Curly

            Hand Hewn Restorations Inc.

            Restoring the past for the future.

      2. User avater
        EricPaulson | Aug 12, 2004 03:46am | #5

        ........so a block chimney can't pass through framing with out it being held back 2"?

        Enlighten me.

        EricEvery once in a while, something goes right!

        1. Snort | Aug 13, 2004 02:33am | #7

          You got it. Don't worry, we can fix that later!

  3. Piffin | Aug 12, 2004 05:49am | #6

    Wherever it is enclosed space, the chimney should be 2" from framing or other combustables. Where it is exposed trin, the space varies from 0" to 1" depending....

    For an exterior surface, zero clearance to trim is permissable.

    google for garage doors and you will be busy for a day or more studying all that is available. I have built a couple customs, but that was begfore the demand made all these other comapnies spring up. I wopuldn't try to compete on price with them now and just buy from them. Doing it yourself can make for a mighty heavy door.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. agribble99 | Aug 26, 2004 11:18am | #19

      Does this mean the 6" thick stone veneer on the concrete chimney is considered a combustible surface?

      1. DANL | Aug 26, 2004 02:48pm | #20

        In Southern California it might! ;-)

      2. Piffin | Aug 29, 2004 03:31pm | #21

        I'm not totally sure what is involved in all the details surronding your questions. There are exeptions allowed for every rule tho and it sounds from your few words like it is possible that the stone veneer is simply a trim facade and the 'concrete' of the actual chimney and fireplace is the mass that must be separated from the combustable framing. It would also depend on the type of firebox. With prefabbed ones, they have their own UL tags that can step around other codes in some places.

        I'd have to be there looking at it to comment further. Was the job inspected? I don't suppose much happens in CA without inspections. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. agribble99 | Aug 29, 2004 05:18pm | #22

          Thank you everyone for having this discussion!!!  We finally went ahead and trimmed back the framing around the stone veneer.  The inspector was quite adamant about the 2" distance.

          It's hollow between the stone veneer and the framing!  Again, thank you all for your expertise.

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