Another weekend worrier moving along on a kitchen remodel…
We’ve ordered some fancy glass for our china cabinet doors; slightly irregular surfaces, bubbles, etc. The stained glass shop from which we’re buying it, when they do an install, bed the glass down in 100% silicone, then run a bead of the silicone on the other side, like putty, smooth it out, and let it cure. No mention of glazier’s points. The opening in the doors, by the way, is roughly 14″ by 37″.
I’ve never had much luck with “smooth it out” with silicone, though I’m learning that, with the silicone caulk I’ve been using, mineral spirits help a lot, as does blue painter’s tape to keep it corraled.
I’m considering wood stops, instead, with some thin sticky-back foam weatherstripping each side to prevent rattling. More work, since the stops would have to be cut, smoothed, drilled for nail/screw holes (ain’t no way I’m driving nails or screws in the vicinity of $200 worth of glass without guiding holes), and painted, but maybe cleaner looking when you open the door.
Thoughts and experiences much appreciated from this knowledgeable community.
A side note: I was commenting to LOML on the way back from the glass shop about the irony that glass manufacturers spent centuries learning how to make smooth, bubble-free glass; and now it’s the stuff with the defects that’s more expensive and much sought after by people doing fancy kitchens. I suspect the same dimensions of glass in regular window glass would have cost about $30.
Bill Houghton
Replies
I prefer the look of wood stops so always use them. I find no need for any foam to prevent rattling; installing the stops tightly is sufficient. I use a brad nailer for installation since it is considerably easier than holding the door steady, the stop tight, the nail straight and the hammer firmly enough to control all at the same time
If you are using Spectrum's seeded glass, and it meets the description you gave, you will be able to use wood stops, pinned in.
Here is a pic of "seedy." I have used it and fixed it with wood stops.
View Image
<I was commenting to LOML>
Here I've been thinking that the LoML was only native to our specific part of NC. Glad to know there's more of 'em out there.
LOML...
Well, I've got just the one, myself. The phrase is fairly common on some Internet fora, including my favorite on Wood Central. It's more respectful, and, for me, far more accurate than "she who must be obeyed." Less likely to get me in trouble if a post comes to her attention, too.
Bill
Thanks to observer and Gene Davis for your comments - confirms my thinking that I'd rather use wood stops.
One of the glass shops we use installs cabinet door glass just as you described. I can't remember any problems with thier installs and it's not unusual for our homes to have 10 to 12 glass cabinet doors. Keep in mind that these guys probably work with more tubes of silicone in a week, than we use in a year.
Maybe it's just me, but I like the ability to remove the stops without a whole lot of hassle. If I recall correctly, these are around 5/8" x 3/8", mitered corners, held in with #4 brass screws. I used a taper point bit with adjustable countersink, and held the stops in a jig made of a chunk of scrap with a 45 degree V cut in it. The fence on the drill press gave me the right offset so I didn't risk running the screw into the glass.
Not the best pics, but should give you the idea...
Rockler has a few options.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11269&filter=glass
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2278&filter=glass
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2203&filter=glass
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17510&filter=glass
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=2277&TabSelect=Details
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
RE: the pricing...
There are perhaps a hundred glass makers in this ountry, if not more.
There are two suppliers of the olde glas and one is in germany
So there is definitely a cost/supply/demand relationship
But another factor is that smooth gla is made as a float glass. restoration is more or less made by hand
Also, it can be harder to cut the restoration glass without breakage so that risk is factored in
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When doing glass cab doors, I usually bed the glass in a SMALL amount of silicone (hey -- you might need to replace that glass some day!) and use wood stops attached with a pinner.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
25 yrs. ago, I set my glass in silicone with four push points on the back, no more silicone added. Things are still fine, the glass is solidly in the frame. no rattles. You don't see the back side of the doors. I've also done numerous cabinets where I used a glass stop. The slightest touch of a screw or nail will break the glass.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I would not use the silicone. Clear latex caulk maybe, but not using any caulk is best. One day you might have to replace the glass, and getting theold silicone out of the rabbett will be difficult. And I happen to like the slight rattle of the glass, especially with seedy glass, it sounds more antique.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I used a couple small pieces of rubber to set the glass on in the frame.......then I used points and covered them with a wood stop and brads.....not too many brads....caulk belongs around your tub
waiting on the revolution..............
The doors we use have a groove in the rabbet to accept a rubber strip that locks the glass in.
Really tough to describe, easy to do. My understanding is that your doors probably don't have this groove.
They make rubber/foam cushion strips for this application; or use a clear silicone, but not much of it. Then wood stops over that. Alternativley, glazing points over the glass and glazing compound over the glass in lieu of wood stops.
I like the former.
Regards,
Scooter
"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Bill
Like FastEddie I wouldn't set my glass in silicone, use clear latex. If you ever have to refinish the cabinet door you'll soon find out why!
Clear latex will do the same thing with less side effects. I've used it on numerous applications like yours.
Also if the glass your using is the seedy glass you can use wood stops, done it several times, the glass isn't that irregular.
Doug