I need to find a way to legally install some seeded glass in an entry door. The glass is not temperable according to the manufacturer. I asked the distributor about having film applied to it to meet the tempering requirement (used to have a sub who did this, in another location, but there’s no one here). What I’m wondering is if anyone knows of an outfit I can send the glass to that will apply the film and possibly also press the glass into insulated units (I realize the film and the insulated glass concepts might be incompatible). Or, possibly they can just supply the glass outright although the locally available glass is the perfect look for the door and house in question.
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Replies
If the glass is flush one side, can it be laminated to another sheet? This would make it shatter-proof.
IanDG
Any glass shop that does substantial business should be able to build, or have built, a unit with your seeded glass on one side and a tempered pane on the other. Think double pane insulated, as in windows.
If the tempered requirement applies to both sides, then ask about triple pane, with the seeded sandwiched.
Even though laminated glass would probable satisfy the legal requirements, I think seeded glass is not flat enough to make a good, distortion free, bond. The result would surely degrade the seeded look. Then, again, siting it between two other panes of glass can't help either.
With us being is a potential hurricane zone, I have seen advertisement for applied film which is supposed to act like the real laminated glass but have not had the need to follow up. Try GOOGLE.<G>
If your building department is anything like ours, you might be able to find an approved method on file that addresses this question.
Our state is just now phasing in a Product Approval requirement that will define, through some form of testing, exactly what building components can be used and how they are to be installed. External doors are on this list and if the state does not have manufacturers testing data on file, then you either don't get to use the door (or glass inserts) you selected or you have to have your engineer or architect certify that particular item.
The local glass shop is able to have the seeded glass fabbed into an insulated unit. The seeded glass is not perfectly flat on either side and yes, that may pose a problem for the film. The triple pane option would not look good enough, that's my guess. What I'm looking for is... something I haven't thought of yet. Or maybe some good-looking tempered seeded glass. I assume they can't temper glass with air pockets in it, which is what I think those seeds are.
I have seen a lot of IG door lites with leaded glass panels inside the sealed airspace, and many of the designs have used seedy glass.
Is your seedy glass part of a leaded panel? Or is each entire lite of glass one piece of seedy?
The IG units that have decorative glass in the airspace are put together by many of the manufacturers, using an airspace/sealer product by Tremco called "swiggle strip."
Grooved swiggle is the kind used when doing these lites, and the groove channel receives the edge came of the center panel. It should work for your seedy, but may require some modification, due to a difference between seedy glass thickness and groove width.
Good luck.
>> I assume they can't temper glass with air pockets in it, which is what I think those seeds are.
If I were you and I were not in a tearing hurry, I would keep looking for some knowledgable glass people until I found somebody who could tell me why they can't temper seeded glass. Your assumption is certainly plausible, but it could also be the case the "We can't temper seeded glass" only means "We've never done that and we're not interested in researching/trying it."
Doesn't seeded glass have air bubbles in it? That could not be tempered.
BTW: Stained glass door panels & beveled panels do not have to be tempered. It is an exception to requirements. Two reasons - First - they cannot practically be tempered because they have to be cut to be fitted & cannot be tempered after assembled w/ lead. Second - they are created out of small enough pieces and have lead boundaries that keep shattering from being a problem. Break a piece & it remains held in place by the leading.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Now there's an idea... come up with a simple design for the panels and have them done by a stained glass person.
Back in my corporate job a few years ago, we built a branch bank in a bad part of town ... did it for political reasons ... to satisfy the quota requiorements (that don't officially exist) of serving a low-income neighborhood. And there are audits every quarter to see how many low income loans are made, forgetting of course that most people in the neighborhood can't qualify for a loan, so the default rate is exceedingly high, etc. Makes for interesting reading of the branch's P&L statemetn every month ... more footnotes for that one branch than all the others combined.
But I digress. We did two things to improve secirity: placed an off-duty cop in the branch during all working hours (that ain't cheap either), and we applied a security film on the inside of all the windows. It was touted as being the film that is used by US embassies overseas to prevent glass from being blown in. We applied the film after the glass was installed, so it (the film) didn't go under the rubber. If the film is applied first, edge to edge of the glass, then the strength is considerable higher.
Contact some window film companies, the ones that advertise doing commercail buildings, and see what they have for security film. it was essentially perfrctly clear, and you can't tell it's there.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Yes, I was going to mention that.
Some of the list of window films that I have run across indicate that they are for safety.
In fact a there are the first couple of hits from google.
http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/jhtml/p_index.jhtml
http://www.tapplastics.com/info/windowfilm.php#safety
Here's one: blastgard.com
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Few years ago I remodeled a CA house with big glass... owner wanted film applied that would prevent them from shattering in the event of a quake. We found a sub who had a clear film product for that purpose, it was 3M if I recall. The same job had some reeded glass that they could not film, so we removed and replaced with tempered reeded.
>> That could not be tempered.
Why should I take your word for it? Have you tried it yourself, or did you hear it from an order taker at a glass shop?
How 'bout from a guy who does glass tempering?
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
David: I forgot one minor thing - I have two entry doors in my house w/ beveled glass in them. They are Peachtree Doors, but all door companies make them the same. The leaded bevels are the center plane of a three plane setup. Makes the glazing unit a bit thick - but hey, it's a door! Go to any good stained glass door shop and they can do this job for you. Pricey, but capable.
Don
There are two purposes for tempering glass in and near doors. The first is to greatly increase the resistance to breakage, the second is that if a break does occur the pieces are considerably less harmful than shards. Applying a film won't do much to reduce breakage, but it does hold the shards in place. Putting an untempered pane between two tempered panes would make it unlikely to break, but if someone really ran in to it hard and did break the outer pane, they would certainly break the inner pane too and be sliced up real good by the shards. Only your code official can say whether applying a film in lieu of tempering is permitted.
Seeds in glass are, by definition, gaseous inclusions. I would not think that they would preclude tempering. However, the process that produces seedy glass may also introduce tiny hard inclusions. If there are hard inclusions within the glass it can not be tempered. In any case, if the manufacturer (rather than the glass shop) tells you it cannot be tempered, then I'd believe it.