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Door Hanging by Basswood–Clinic Anyone?

basswood | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 29, 2008 03:01am

Any interest in a thread on door hanging?

I have an approach that some might find interesting (I shim all the openings on the hinge side before hanging any doors, use a bunch of flat shims of various thicknesses, etc.)

I have about 30 doors to hang in the house I started trimming today. Did not take many photos today, but can get more tomorrow, it there is interest.

Here is my door prep table (1/2″ MDO) 38″x96″.

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Replies

  1. iluvgear | Apr 29, 2008 03:10am | #1

    I have interest.  If you have the time to take a few pictures I would look forward to seeing them.

  2. craigf | Apr 29, 2008 03:20am | #2

    Sounds interesting!

  3. KenHill3 | Apr 29, 2008 03:30am | #3

    Count me in, Basswood! I LOVE to hang doors!

    I also carry buckets with dividers holding various shim stock- 1/16" (pl. lam.), 1/8" (door skin), 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" (all ply.) . These are primarily to shim and plumb the hinge side. I like to use regular tapered shims for the strike side since they're infinitely variable. Doing the hinge side first is also helpful to me when hanging heavy/solid core doors, which will also get 3" screws through the hinge areas.

    My shim buckets also help me to to set interior window wraps and window drywall returns.

    I'm going on a bit much here, but look forward to sharing ideas and methods will you and others. Thanks.



    Edited 4/28/2008 8:45 pm by kenhill3

    1. User avater
      basswood | Apr 29, 2008 05:23am | #9

      Ken,Your descriptions are a good intro. for some of the photos I will take tomorrow, about shim stock. I also prefer tapered shims on the strike side (12" cedar).More tomorrow,Bass

      1. mathewson | Apr 29, 2008 06:03am | #13

        Brian,
        I'll chime in. The way I hang doors is pretty much a throw-back so it won't appeal to a lot of people, plus I already added these pics on a thread at JLC but here it is. I don't do production work (good thing because I'd be too old & slow), I do custom, so I almost always make my own jambs. I'll just talk about hanging doors unless people are interested in making jambs.
        For a standard 80" door I'll use a digital jamber level to set the hinge side plumb. The digital readout I find more accurate than the bubble. For 7+ foot doors I use a plumb bob & reel. I prefer the shorter door shims to the 12". After plumbing the jamb side I place a level along the bottom of the opening and then shim to level, take a pair of scribes an gauge the gap, then scribe the short leg to be cut. Haul the door/jamb assembly to the opening and check the top again for level & reveal. Nail off hinge side. Nail off strike side gauging reveal as I go.
        Don't wish to hijack your thread, what I do probably doesn't lend itself well in most cases.

        1. KenHill3 | Apr 29, 2008 07:48am | #14

          Love to see folks chopping mortices by hand, as well as using a hand plane! Of course you had to tease us with a pic of your Festool saw.

        2. dovetail97128 | Apr 29, 2008 09:52am | #15

          The plane in this pic. DSCF0916.jpg What is it called ? I have never seen one before.
          They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

          1. MikeHennessy | Apr 29, 2008 02:26pm | #17

            It's a butt mortise plane. Look here:

            http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=40

            Nifty tool. I've been tempted to get one, but haven't been able to justify the cost. If I'm doing mortises by hand, I just use a small router plane.

            Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

          2. dovetail97128 | Apr 29, 2008 04:53pm | #29

            Mike,

            Thanks, I saw that one and forgot to ask what is was as well in my fascination with the brass one.
            They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

          3. User avater
            FatRoman | Apr 29, 2008 02:44pm | #18

            I think Mike copied the wrong link. This is the plane you were asking about. I was curious about the same one. Neat item.Bronze Edge Plane
            http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=95'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

          4. MikeHennessy | Apr 29, 2008 03:52pm | #23

            "I think Mike copied the wrong link."

            Well, I copied the right link, but I was lookin' at the wrong pic! ;-)

            I still want one of those butt mortise planes.

            Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

          5. mathewson | Apr 29, 2008 04:02pm | #25

            103996.19 in reply to 103996.16
            I think Mike copied the wrong link. This is the plane you were asking about. I was curious about the same one. Neat item.Bronze Edge Plane
            http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=95I think more carpenter should carry one of these. When ever you have to rip a board they are very fast at cleaning the saw marks off the edge.

          6. User avater
            FatRoman | Apr 29, 2008 04:13pm | #28

            Thanks. You mentioned above about making your own jambs. If you're wiling to post pics about that, I'm interested in flipping through them.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

          7. mathewson | Apr 30, 2008 05:51am | #42

            FatRoman,Tomorrow I have 2 doors to hang, I'll try to take some pics.. With the way I do things I can only hang & case 2 or 3 doors a day. These doors are custom made and arrive in slab form. Which is to say that they are un-bored & un-mortised. As is frequently the case the customer has picked hinges and door hardware. Add to that the none of the RO framing is standard. There is extra sound-proofing type sheeting, etc. So full door hanging fits the job, plus I like hanging doors. You already have noticed I use a lot of hand tools. I hate to see planer or saw marks after the finish has been applied. So besides the festools. lasers, digital levels, etc. what I use would have been standard equipment for a carpenter 50 years ago so it really is nothing special. I will do my best to persuade everyone who reads what I outline why they would benefit from them as well. Basswoods tips will most likely be of greater help for most folks. Just looking at his shim bucket and I'm confused.
            P.S. don't play poker with him those playing cards aren't really for hanging doors.

          8. dovetail97128 | Apr 29, 2008 04:54pm | #30

            Thanks, You are right about which I asked about , but I had also never seen the other one either so was happy for that link.
            They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

        3. User avater
          basswood | Apr 29, 2008 03:15pm | #19

          Looks like a great way to actually hang doors...nice to see your pics. I mostly "hang" pre-hung doors. My contribution here, will be based in a production mentality.Yesterday, I set up shop, (helper showed up and unpackaged all the doors), I shimmed the hinge side of nine doorways, and "hung" 5 doors.I always feel the tension between speed and quality and am fool enough to go for both.Nice to see those planes and other old school tools, alongside the lasers and Festool stuff.I understand you using the digital jamber and plum bob, 'cause your Stabila is hard to read, but my Empire with the True Blue vials provides a quick and accurate read. ;o)I like seeing what you do.Thanks for the post,Brian

          1. User avater
            Heck | Apr 29, 2008 04:08pm | #26

            Great thread, Brian.  I would like to see you address the problems and solutions to contrary conditions encountered when hanging doors, after you present your method of hanging. 

            There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.       

          2. User avater
            basswood | Apr 30, 2008 05:30am | #35

            The is an example of a limitation of mass produced pre-hung doors, The margin at the head is larger than the sides on this door. I don't rehang them. I just keep each jamb parallel to the edge of the door. One thing I could have done is to move both of the jamb legs away from the head jamb to equal the top margin. Moving the jamb legs out leaves small gaps between the head and the legs, but the casing can cover these gaps. If shimmed well and fastened securely, the slop introduced does not undermine the install.

          3. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 05:34am | #38

            That would be a catch 22 wouldn't it? Rehang the prehung doors on your own dime? Fine homebuilding would demand it, but financial realities would punish you for it. The wide gap on the edges wouldn't be that great anyways if you banged them open. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

        4. timkline | Apr 29, 2008 04:01pm | #24

          The digital readout I find more accurate than the bubble

          What brand of digital level do you have ?

          I've got a Smartlevel that fits in various rails, but I would never say it was more accurate or sensitive than a Stabila bubble level.  

           carpenter in transition

          1. mathewson | Apr 29, 2008 04:09pm | #27

            Stabila now makes digital levels in various lengths. I use the digital door jambers with I thinks is 78", but for tall or very expensive custom doors I use a bob & reel.

        5. spindrift67 | May 01, 2008 12:55am | #61

          Do you back bevel your non-prehung on the hinge side prior to mortise of hinges? I like to bevel (or relive) the hing side about 3degrees or so to eliminate binding.

          1. mathewson | May 01, 2008 05:44am | #69

            I bevel the strike side 3 degrees and the hinge side 1 degree. First however I check the trimmer to see if it is square with the wall.

    2. User avater
      basswood | Apr 30, 2008 04:32am | #31

      Here is my shim bucket.It includes some of the stuff you mentioned. No dividers though, I just bundle the different sizes. I also include playing cards as shims. I am also using a product I just discovered called "Speed Shims."http://www.speedshims.com/

      1. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 05:30am | #36

        That is a priceless shot! Thank you! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

      2. MisterT | May 02, 2008 02:10pm | #85

        That shim bucket CAN'T work is doesn't have any sawdust in the bottom ;).
        .
        "After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
        .
        .
        .
        If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???

        1. User avater
          basswood | May 02, 2008 03:27pm | #88

          I think I fixed that problem yesterday. 8o)

  4. try50772 | Apr 29, 2008 03:49am | #4

    Do it, do it, do it.

    I love these type of threads.

  5. tashler | Apr 29, 2008 04:11am | #5

    Brian,

    I look forward to what you're going to do. Too bad you can't do video, too.

    I wish you were closer to me that I could spend a day or two working with you to pick up some experience and tips.

    Keep it coming.

    Glenn

  6. Jer | Apr 29, 2008 04:21am | #6

    "(I shim all the openings on the hinge side before hanging any doors, use a bunch of flat shims of various thicknesses, etc.)"

    Been doing it that way for quite a number of years now. Shhhhhhh!! You're giving away all the good secrets!

    Yours mostly PH or do you make your own jambs? I actually prefer to make the jambs but PH is ultimately cheaper.

    1. User avater
      basswood | Apr 29, 2008 05:32am | #10

      Jer,I mostly work with prehung doors. I do like making my own jambs, when needed.I'll post about how I go about door hanging...it will be interesting to hear about how you and some others here go about it too. Sounds like we have a similar approach.

  7. vanderpooch | Apr 29, 2008 04:33am | #7

    I'd like to follow along. Starting a decent sized door job myself on Wednesday. I really haven't had much look doing the pre-shimming routine so I'm definitely curious.

    Dude, how tall are you?! My back hurts just looking at that prep table ;)

    - Kit

    Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
    1. User avater
      IMERC | Apr 29, 2008 04:49am | #8

      you gonna get this show on the raod or continue to tease??? 

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

      WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

      1. User avater
        basswood | Apr 29, 2008 05:44am | #12

        I'll get it rolling along...should be fun.

    2. User avater
      basswood | Apr 29, 2008 05:41am | #11

      Kit,I'll pass on the preshimming ideas I have, and you can try it if it suits you.They guy in the photo is my helper, Matt. He is on the tall side and those are my short horses. The table is a good way to start though.More tomorrow,Brian

    3. User avater
      basswood | Apr 30, 2008 04:41am | #32

      I marked my jambing level with hinge locations using a Sharpie. Most of the time, I staple the hinge shims with my narrow crown stapler (a hammer tacker works too). The staples don't shoot through the shims like a finish nail does. Staples really hold well.

      1. User avater
        basswood | Apr 30, 2008 05:05am | #34

        I also hang the door so the bottom of the jamb legs will be at the height of the finished floor. In this case the flooring is 5/8" engineered, hardwood veneer, flooring.I placed 5/8" shims on the floor below both jamb legs. In this photo, the floor was not perfectly level. Here the hinge jamb is hung about 9/16" off the floor, while the strike side is up the full 5/8". The lower jamb leg will be trimmed up by the floor guy.The level in the pic is a 3' Empire Speed level.

        1. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 05:32am | #37

          Do you have different sized levels for the various door widths? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          1. User avater
            basswood | Apr 30, 2008 05:36am | #39

            No. I have 2', 3', 4' and 6'6" levels. For, a 2'-8" door I use the 3' in front of the door opening to check level.

          2. User avater
            G80104 | Apr 30, 2008 05:41am | #40

            Just a quick question, the doors hollow core doors? Or is it the real deal solid MDF?

          3. User avater
            basswood | Apr 30, 2008 05:48am | #41

            These are in the middle...not cheesy hollow, but not super heavy & solid either. They are Timber Roots by UBC.I hang them as I would a solid hardwood door. Each is shimmed in about 10 places (5 on the hinge side) with two 15 ga. 2-1/2" nails through each shim set and 3" screws in the center hole of the hinges.

          4. User avater
            G80104 | Apr 30, 2008 06:02am | #43

            Ever case one side, shim the other, then hang?

            Would never do it on the solids, but the hollow cores it's SOP around here.

          5. User avater
            basswood | Apr 30, 2008 02:29pm | #47

            I have never tried that. I do pre-assemble my casing sets on my work table and put the casing on the openings as a single unit.

          6. User avater
            basswood | May 01, 2008 03:41am | #64

            It turns out that the panels are MDF, but the core of the rails and stiles are "Wood-stalk" (processed wheat stalks). This core material reduces the weight of the doors and is considered "green."

          7. Snort | May 01, 2008 04:30am | #65

            Good thread, nice to see and hear how others do it.I used to set a level on blocks on the floor, like you show, but a laser saves a whole bunch of bobbing up and down, and your cart would be a great place to sit it<G>Use a line laser, if you set it in line with the middle of the doorway you can measure from the line down to the floor at both edges of each jamb. If the cut is angled, you'll know it. We find it a lot more accurate than a spirit level on some blocks.We also use a plumb bob laser instead of a bob on a string, way faster. If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          8. mathewson | May 01, 2008 05:32am | #67

            This is one of the reasons I enjoy these threads. I have a laser-line and a laser plumb bob but it never dawned to me to use them in that manner. Talk about a creature of habit!

          9. Snort | May 01, 2008 02:28pm | #70

            Old age makes you sneaky<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          10. User avater
            basswood | May 01, 2008 02:58pm | #73

            I have to say, that the photos of your real door hanging, have to be the coolest stuff in this thread.May not apply to the masses, as you alluded to, but at least it will give a few people an excuse to buy another plane or two.I'll get more pics and some better explanations of the more routine prehung installing as soon as the lower level of this house is ready for the next round of doors.

          11. Jim_Allen | May 01, 2008 05:38am | #68

            Thats probably the first use of a laser that has ever intrigued me! I hate bending so much, I might give their use some more thought...if I ever do anything like that again. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          12. Snort | May 01, 2008 02:31pm | #71

            No kidding, if I'm kneeling, I'm planning on staying there for a while... I'll try to get a pic of my door hardware buggy... pizzes the guys off when I make them tow me to the next door<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          13. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 02:17am | #74

            Ever see one of these:http://www.racatac.com/racatac.html

          14. Jim_Allen | May 02, 2008 02:51am | #76

            Your system makes sense to me. I do ANYTHING to not bend, so you're idea would go very high on my list. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          15. User avater
            basswood | May 01, 2008 02:52pm | #72

            Thanks for the info on the laser applications. I should give that a try. I still would use blocks on the floor, since they represent the finished floor height and are nice to set the jambs legs on to keep things held up where I want them.I will get some better photos today of another way the blocks are helpful to me.

          16. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 02:35am | #75

            So the floor guy used to have to cut all the jambs to get his flooring in...I said let me know your floor thickness, and I'll hold the jambs up for you.He lets me know. Up 5/8" or up 1/2" or 3/4". I put blocks on the floor to match the flooring thickness. But if the floor runs up a 1/16" from one jamb leg to the other--I swap the top block out for a "peel a shim stack that is 1/16" shorter (then my level reads level--see pics).This means one jamb leg is hung 1/16" too long for the flooring to fit under and the floor guy cuts it as he preps for the floor install. He cuts jambs all the time and he is happy to have half as many jamb legs (or less) to cut on the jobs I trim.

          17. Jim_Allen | May 02, 2008 02:53am | #77

            I love your deck of cards trick too. I forgot to mention that. Everything you are doing makes great sense. Thanks for sharing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          18. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 03:59am | #78

            I often use the playing cards to "shoehorn" a putty knife or pry bar behind a piece of trim I need to remove (good cards are both stiff and thin).Using cards like that can protect the wall too.

          19. Snort | May 02, 2008 05:21am | #81

            Do you have that rac a trac? It is interesting... but how is it getting out of the thing?My wheelie thing is a Scoot-n-Do. Made for the garden, though I don't see how in the world it would work there. Four wheeled cart with a bit of a seat and bin for stuff. Another lower bin underneath. About 18" high.Sitting feels much better to me than kneeling. Plus the wagon holds everything to install locks. Someone wants to come thru the door, or I want to shut it or whatever, I just roll out of the way while on my butt.I have hung doors with out the flooring in place, but I don't like it. Never saw a flooring person make a cut that came close, and if I hold the jambs up, they always want a little extra to wiggle their flooring under, and that looks a little sloppy IMO. I've laid my share of flooring, and it's a PITA to work around hung doors... not my cup o tea. I've never like setting solid core doors with the jambs hanging in the air, either.That said, we are just finishing a house that had 8/0 solid MDF cores.
            The flooring guys want to cut the jambs, and we left little blocks under the carpeted areas... I bet they'll stay there<G>I'm going to look at a job with 7, 8, and 9' 1 3/4" carved mahogany slabs next week. I am seriously thinking of springing for a Jamb Master with extensions.The hardest thing I have explaining to my guys is after they've beautifully hung and cased a door, DON'T run the danged base too tight<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          20. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 05:40am | #83

            A tile guy here has one and I borrowed it for running base. I liked it no problems getting in and out of it. Kinda fun. Would be perfect for wainscotting or chair rail jobs.

          21. Snort | May 02, 2008 02:04pm | #84

            I don't see a tow strap<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          22. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 03:25pm | #87

            You must use your belt sander for propulsion! ;o)

          23. Snort | May 02, 2008 07:38pm | #89

            Thats the ticket, finish the floor at the same time! If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          24. User avater
            Heck | May 02, 2008 09:35pm | #90

            I like to use the random orbital, I never know what I'm working on next.

            :) 

            There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.       

          25. User avater
            basswood | May 03, 2008 01:08am | #92

            ...or maybe a big floor buffer!

          26. User avater
            basswood | May 03, 2008 05:04pm | #96

            Some builders just like to put floors in as close to the end as possible. I can see pros and cons to both methods.This floor guy does great work...a magician at sneaking the floor in tight under the jambs and casing.With the average floor installer though, I see your point.

          27. mathewson | May 04, 2008 04:05am | #98

            Had to put lipstick on a pig today. Did a staircase for a builder and got a call to come back and do some punch-list work. Normally I turn this kind of work down, but I'm going to do some nice curved work in walnut for him in a couple of weeks. Put in a fire-rated door from the garage to the lower stairs and in the pic is what I got. Even with today's market this house will sell for $1 mil.

          28. mathewson | May 04, 2008 04:10am | #99

            pics didn't load, trying again.

          29. User avater
            basswood | May 04, 2008 05:58am | #100

            Doh!Did you fir out the jamb or tweak it back into alignment?

          30. mathewson | May 04, 2008 06:11am | #101

            It was a real low point. Everything in the place was MDF and the builder knows I don't prefer MDf, but needs dictate so I made tapered extentions and cased it.

          31. Snort | May 06, 2008 02:25pm | #102

            Since you brought up exterior doors... we just took out 4 12/0 8/0 Marvin sliders. We had put them in last fall, and the ho's were not overly fond of the beaded detail on the sashes. We replaced them with Loewens. Exterior clad in brushed aluminum, pretty sharp, and amazingly heavy... nicest sliders I've ever put in...now, back to your original programing<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          32. mathewson | May 07, 2008 04:15am | #104

            Snort,I have very little experience with installing exterior doors The one thing I do remember is that they are indeed heavy. Hope you have a helper.

          33. DougU | May 07, 2008 05:15am | #105

            Snort dont need a helper, he's strong!

          34. MisterT | May 08, 2008 01:45am | #106

            This thread reminded me of one of my favorite "Fix the screw-up" jobs.Boss took me to a "finished" house to do some corrective surgery..One task was to fix the sticking mandoor going out of the garage.after some looking and ciphering, I figured that it just needed to be square in the opening.so I get some monster 3" screws (piffen type)and put them in place of a few of the hinge screws.that oughta do it, but door still sticks.oh wait one of the side jambs is bowedanother well placed screw will fix thatdrive the screw and jamb does not budge.hmm must be a shim in there, I'll take off the trim and take it out.It's not a shim, It is the install instructions and the long hinge screws stapled to the jamb!!!Real men don't need instructions!.
            .
            "After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
            .
            .
            .
            If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???

          35. Snort | May 08, 2008 02:22am | #107

            Pulled this out of a hinge. I keep it at the desk to keep my superior attitude pumped up... the best was the whole pack of those doofy plastic shims still stapled to the jamb... "Well sure we used shims!" If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          36. doodabug | May 08, 2008 02:28am | #108

            Looks like somebody pounded it in with a hammer. last screw dead battery

          37. Snort | May 08, 2008 02:38am | #109

            I was thinking they didn't have a hammer, either, just kept shutting the door til the hinge slammed it home<G< If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          38. MisterT | May 08, 2008 02:55am | #110

            How on earth did you get it out???a Torch??.
            .
            "After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
            .
            .
            .
            If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???

          39. DonCanDo | May 08, 2008 03:06am | #111

            With a corkscrewdriver, of course.

          40. JohnCujie | May 02, 2008 04:55am | #79

            Aren't prehungs already an inch above the bottom of the jamb? Don't the blocks then have the door quite a bit above finish floor? Or do you trim bottom of jamb?Thanks, JohnAm I the only one who uses Topstar adjustable screws?

          41. User avater
            basswood | May 02, 2008 05:02am | #80

            The doors are up 3/4" from the bottom of the jamb legs. This is a common gap to have below a door with hard flooring (allows for area rugs and runners without having to cut the doors down).

          42. Snort | May 02, 2008 05:26am | #82

            Our doors come closer to an inch up... with forced air HVAC it works fine. Over carpeted areas we cut the slabs to be 1 1/2" above the subfloor.I've hear of the Top Stars, but never used them. What do you know? If dogs run free, then what must be,

            Must be, and that is all.

            True love can make a blade of grass

            Stand up straight and tall.

            In harmony with the cosmic sea,

            True love needs no company,

            It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

            If dogs run free.

          43. MisterT | May 02, 2008 02:21pm | #86

            I use them some times...good for quick and nasty and when you can take the stop off.I think they might not hold up a heavy door for long term w/o shimblysyou are talking about the ones that goe in a 5/16 hole and screw in and out to adjust the jamb??.
            .
            "After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
            .
            .
            .
            If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???

          44. BillBrennen | May 03, 2008 07:13pm | #97

            Mister T,I used Topstars on a tricky entry replacement job. I used a lot more of them (5 each side and one at top center into the cured old 4x header) than they suggest because the door was heavy and I wanted to get all the wave out of the jambs. I also put a long screw though each of the 3 hinges with shims behind.It was nifty to adjust the jamb in place, but I still feel that the hinge screws, the casings, and the foam are necessary helpers to stabilize the final installation. That job had an ipe threshold prefastened to the jamb legs and PL'd to the slab. All the woodwork was prefinished 6 sides.Bill

          45. User avater
            G80104 | May 01, 2008 04:46am | #66

            Looks like your doing a fine job!  Green is the way to go. We got about 12-14 doors to hang @ the "Man Cave" soon, MDF (aka chinese oak) going to be some husky suckers. Think getting the door to the hole is 1/2 the battle!

      2. KenHill3 | Apr 30, 2008 06:39am | #44

        Brian-Thanks for the pics. Nicely organized shim container ready for action. I go a little overboard with the shims. I have 5 gal. and 7 gal. buckets that I've made interlocking dividers for (4 compartments/bucket) that hold the various thicknesses of shims (also cut to 3 1/4"), just dump 'em in. The dividers are about 3" shy of the bucket tops so they can be nested if needed - helps a lot when the van is full of cr*p and space is at a premium. Every so often I'll get door skins, p-lam scraps, ply scraps, and make up 1 3/8" rips and then chop up 3 1/4" lengths. I usually try to make up mass quantities so I can go for a long time before replenishing- thus I have some more buckets at the warehouse, bucket of 1/8" shims, bucket of 1/4", etc. , from which I keep the divided buckets full. Thanks for the tip on using the stapler, for some ODD reason it never ocurred to me, and all this time I would always struggle to keep 18ga. nails from blowing through the thin shims! Duh!Here's a question, Brian- do you nail your jambs through the shims or just below, or other? Lots of variables here, I know, esp. with the weight of the door taken into account. But for the the strike-side jamb, since I usually use tapered shims there, I nail just BELOW the shims. Makes fine-tuning easier.

        Edited 4/29/2008 11:42 pm by kenhill3

        1. vanderpooch | Apr 30, 2008 07:06am | #45

          Ken,I nail above and below the hinge, with the shims centered behind the hinge.After I'm sure everything is right, I put a nail through the shims (one on stain grade, two on paint grade.)I put a long screw either through or behind each hinge as well.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens

        2. User avater
          basswood | Apr 30, 2008 02:47pm | #48

          On the hinge side, with the flat shim stock, and the shims stapled firmly plumb, adjustments are not needed (most of the time). I put one nail right through each shim set on the hinge side, check, and if needed I add a set of tapered cedar or pine, just above one of the original shim sets, to tweak things.On the shim supplies, I usually keep two totes like the one in the photo, both with an assortment of sizes and kinds of shims. I also keep extras back at the shop.On this job, for the first time, the builder provided a case of pine shims. That was nice, since I usually have to provide them. Since I use a bunch of flat, homemade stock, I'll be taking some of the pine shims back to the shop from this job.Glad you like the stapler tip.I ran out of doors to hang yesterday, and started in on casing. The lower level of the house is still not ready for door hanging (needs drywall finishing and paint). When I hang the lower level (walkout basement) I will take more photos. Did not take many yesterday.Have a good day,Brian

  8. gordsco | Apr 29, 2008 01:05pm | #16

    I prefer to router my own hinges. I find the doors close better, I don't need a hammer to drive the pins and I have an excuse to get the Bosch jig out of the truck.

    Jambs are cut 81 3/4" for carpeted areas, vinyl and tile.

    Jambs are cut 81 3/8" for hardwood.

    Jamb headers are cut 3/16" wider than actual door measure and 1/4" wider than actual measure of 2 french doors.

    After routing, the proceedure is pretty much the same for pre-hungs.

    1. check level of floor and rough opening measure of each door, walk through with homeowner or super and mark a large black "X" on the hinge side of each opening. Point out frames requiring framing adjustments (if any, and it has to be indesputably bad) as there is an extra charge for this.
    2. Stand assembled frame (adjusted for floor level if needed) in opening on 3/8" shims for carpet or tile. Shim and plumb hinge side at hinges. Hinges should be shimmed slightly more than rest of jamb to eliminate binding. Fasten hinge side with numerous 2 1/4" min 16ga pins through jambs and shims where the doorstop will cover pins.
    3. Mark door location on top of door (Bed#1/ Kitchen/ etc.) with felt marker. Hang door.
    4. Shim rest of door so it is flush with jamb on closing. I like the reveal around a door about the size of a nickle.
    5. Route latch. 
    6. Latch door and Install doorstop with slight gap on hinge side (I use a formica shim)
    7. Hang rest of doors on that floor and trim all later.

    "Perfect is the enemy of Good."    Morrison

    1. User avater
      basswood | Apr 29, 2008 03:20pm | #20

      Here is prior thread that shows some of my shimming techniques:98351.1 Can someone turn that into a live link?

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Apr 29, 2008 03:37pm | #21

        http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=98351.1
        Justice without force is powerless; force without justice is tyrannical. [Blaise Pascal]

        1. User avater
          basswood | Apr 29, 2008 03:48pm | #22

          Thanks Boss...I'm a cyberninny.

    2. Jer | Apr 30, 2008 02:12pm | #46

      Everything you state is basically my own procedure, except I prefer to plumb shims on hinge side at measured locations (above & below hinges), before installing the jamb.
      I never did buy myself a hinge jig. Too cheap and too stupid and probably too many PH doors. I did develop my own technique through the years, of marking, routing and cleaning with knife & chisel that is every bit as accurate and I've gotten pretty swift at it. If I get another large door hanging job involving making my own jambs, I will resolve myself to getting the jig. You say Bosch? I've heard the PC ain't bad.You're only the second person I ever heard mention the reveal and the nickel, the first was 25 or so years ago and I've always followed it.

      1. gordsco | Apr 30, 2008 09:24pm | #59

        Some prefer the PC, I like the Bosch jig.

        Another guy I hung doors with used a strip of 3/4" plywood with notches cut out as a router template. Not too complicated, but if the jig was well made, so was the work.

        I know what you mean about the shims above and below the hinges, the screws usually stick out of the jamb and bind the shim. I still put the shim under the hinge anyway. I also like to drive a 3" screw into the framing through the top hinge mortice before I re-attach the hinge, if that makes sense.

        I learned to hang doors by ozmosis. I watched others and picked what worked best for me. The first few hundred doors were morticed with a chisel, bevels were hand planed. That was the way I was taught, the way it was done. Great big nailholes everywhere.

        I still hand mortice the big entry doors, there's some things better left the way they were.

         

         "Perfect is the enemy of Good."    Morrison

  9. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 05:04am | #33

    I would love a thread like this!

    Get some close ups!

    Nice horses. A bit heavy for such light loads but it looks very stable. I'm guessing that is your motivation.

    Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

  10. cargin | Apr 30, 2008 03:00pm | #49

    basswood

    Looks like a good thread.

    I don't have time to go thru it now , but i'll book mark it.

    Thanks

    Rich

    1. User avater
      basswood | Apr 30, 2008 03:10pm | #50

      That's OK...I don't have time for it either. ;o)I won't have much to add until the basement is ready for the next round of door hangin'Here is a pic of my cart set up for door hanging. I wheel it around to each area I hang doors in.

      1. cargin | Apr 30, 2008 03:19pm | #51

        Basswood

        You're worse than my son. Radio is front and center on the cart.

        He can't work unless he hooks up the radio 1st.

        He/we like NPR, talk radio, christian radio.

        Right now he is into this Dave Ramsey Financial university on talk radio. Good stuff just gets old listening to everyone's dumb decisions.

        The older I get the more I like soft music or no radio at all.

        Rich

        1. User avater
          basswood | Apr 30, 2008 03:27pm | #52

          We have a pretty good, student run, University radio station here:Classical 8-10Jazz 10-12Blues/Jazz mix 12-3Alternative Rock after 3Otherwise I like NPR and the eclectic mix in my iPod. Quiet is good on somedays too.

          1. Jer | May 01, 2008 12:36am | #60

            Your radio station sounds great. We have classical which I like, NPR is good but sometimes I just get too much talky talk news & over informed.
            Temple U station kicks in with great jazz but only after 6:00. Sure wish there was a good jazz station during the day here.
            Listening to an oldies station is like being caught on one of Dante's lower rungs.Sometimes nothing is just fine.

          2. User avater
            basswood | May 03, 2008 04:54pm | #95

            Man am I glad we have the Winona State radio station...otherwise the choices here are sad indeed (stations with top 40 crapola and the like).Even KQAL has talk shows, some good and some I shut off and plug the iPod into the radio and listen to my own collection instead.

      2. cargin | Apr 30, 2008 03:27pm | #53

        basswood

        I have been thinking about doing something similar to this thread called

        Estimating with Excel for Dummies

        I am not a geek. But I remember the 1st time I opened a spreadsheet (works) and had no idea where to start.

        I don't know if anyone is interested though.

        Maybe this is just common knowledge out there. I don't know.

        Rich

        1. User avater
          basswood | Apr 30, 2008 03:34pm | #54

          Another good idea.Right now I gotta do the "Get to Work for Dummies" thing.I'll look for your new thread though.Off to do some wood butcherin'Brian

        2. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 03:41pm | #56

          Everyone doesn't know. I just learned how to put them together a year ago. I agonized trying to figure them out. I still don't know much about them but I really don't need to know too much more. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          1. cargin | Apr 30, 2008 03:48pm | #57

            Jim

            I wasn't talking about you.

            In my book you are either the master.

            Or in old dog, and it's not worth trying to teach you anything new. LOL

            I can't decide which .

            Rich

          2. Jim_Allen | Apr 30, 2008 04:59pm | #58

            I'm an old dog with a new career so I'm really a new kid on the block. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

      3. User avater
        Huck | Apr 30, 2008 03:34pm | #55

        Lately I've been getting jobs with "pre-hung" doors with mdf jambs that are pre-cased, and come in three interlocking pieces (two legs and a head).  Really a p.o.s., but if the framing and sheetrock are clean they go in pretty quick.  If the framing or sheetrock are not clean, they get ugly and time-consuming. 

        The hollow core doors are just cardboard and air, so they weigh next to nothing.  And you can't get tight miters like you do with your system.  I hate 'em, but they're becoming the standard around here.  Anyone else running into these?

        I don't have any pre-assembly pics, I'll try to get some next chance I get.

        View ImageView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com

        1. User avater
          basswood | May 01, 2008 01:13am | #62

          I have seen those doors you are talking about, but have never installed one. Last fall I was on a job and all the casing sets showed up with all the miters already cut. I told the builder to send it back and get me some stuff I can cut myself......he looked at me like I was a nut, but he indulged me. He and the homeowners ended up appreciating the quality of the miters I cut vs. the factory.

          1. dovetail97128 | May 01, 2008 02:13am | #63

            It is not at all uncommon here for pre-finished door casing to arrive pre- mitered. #### shoot as to whether the cuts are any good though. I am enjoying your posting thread , keep it up.
            They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

        2. User avater
          basswood | May 03, 2008 04:47pm | #94

          Huck,I go through and mark all "proud rock" and beat and cut it out of the way. Looks awful but it really helps with the trimming. This prep work is unfortunate.I used to find the walls too fat at headers above doors and windows, mostly. Now it occurs at the bottom of most windows too (the window pan products kick the window out an extra 1/8").

  11. CAGIV | May 02, 2008 11:54pm | #91

    dude... someone wrecked you're flat bar!

    Seriously, how do you like the "funny" shaped one?  I've seen them but never thought I'd have a use for it over it a regular one...

     

    Team Logo

    1. User avater
      basswood | May 03, 2008 01:13am | #93

      The "not so flat bar" is handy for some stuff . The wrinkle in it is a fulcrum for leverage, like putting a wood block under a normal flat bar.Works as a sheetrock lifter, door lifter, etc.

  12. frenchy | May 06, 2008 04:43pm | #103

    basswood,

      hanging a door on basswood doesn't seem intelligent to me.. I mean basswood while technically a hardwood is a extremely soft hard wood that doesn't retain fastners  well doesn't have any real strength and with a typical temper tamtrum of slamming doors wouldn't hold up well to teenage daughters.

      I prefer other hard woods such as ash or Tamarck.  Soft woods Fir is superior  but even the"western white woods"  would be preferable to Basswood..

      <grin>

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