Could someone give me some insight on how to make a door pan.
I’m replacing a basement door that was sitting on the concrete. I’m ripping out all the old rotted framing and installing new.
I’m going to put a 2x PT base, and I want to make sure I make this as waterproof as possible.
I’ve heard of pre- made, pre -bent door pans, and also have heard that some guys make their own. I don’t know of anywhere that sells pre made pans other than possibly ordering one, which I don’t have the time to do. I was hoping someone could give me the low down on fabricate one, or a solid flashing technique for this type of situation.
Mick
Replies
BTw,
I have to head out tonite, in case someone posts me back a question and I don't respond. Won't be in 'til later. Thanks.
Why not set it directly on the concrete w/o the 2x PT?
http://www.suresill.com/temp/newweb/suresill_products_slopedsillpan.html
I googled door sill pan and found many sites. You could purchase one or make one out of copper, lead, or grace vycor.
"It is what it is."
Sill pans are used to stop the underlying framing from gettin wet and rotting.
Set the door directly on the concrete.
We use sill pans to re-direct any water that may get past the door seals.If the basement slab is at the same height as, say an exterior slab, it would best to raise the door up on something like pt or some sort of plastic like trex or azek, shimmed at an angle aimed out. PL premium to a clean floor.Most real lumber yards do have plastic sill pans, your best bet, unless you have a sheet metal brake. Cobbling one out flashing is sketchy at best, and aluminum reacts negatively with PT.If the slab is raised, PL should do the job, if the door has a composite sill base and lower jambs. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
I'm curious how you set a door on a base that is shimmed at an angle?
No matter what you put down under the door sill... the only thing sealing between interior and exterior is caulk/sealent. If you can seal a PT board to the concrete what's the issue with sealing the sill to the concrete?
I'm apparently missing something here.
We put enough reverse tapered azek shims under the door sill to make it sturdy, with no flex.We've found that doors set on concrete that is flush to an exterior pad will get water under them. Most doors now have a honeycomb sort of composite sill base. Just caulking has to be done very dutifully, and there are still the gaps at the jambs.Raising the door, and using an overlapping sill pan is the insurance. A sill pan is Z shaped, not L shaped, and goes from jack to jack, so any water that gets in there goes back out.On a door on raised slab, I still like a pan that overlaps the slab... we like to use caulk for a secondary defense, not primary. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Don't mean to be dense here... but the doors I install have a flat sill. If you put any sort of tapered wedge under them the contact point is no longer the entire sill but some undetermined unseen point. Do you install doors with tapered sills to match the wedges ensuring full contact?
This intrugues me.... care to share the manufacturer?
Determine the points that need it... some what similar to what Jon posted... but homemade... but like I said previously, I try to use store bought like Jam Sill.. but Jon's looks even better Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Jon's looks absolutely fantastic.... But I can't see where it applies in this installation.
Are you proposing to cut some sort of groove in the concrete to accept the front drop of the sill pan? This is important information perhaps you left out????
do you guys see a lot of this where a patio slab is the same level as the interior slab?To me it is sheer design lunacy.
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A sill pan under an exterior door on concrete is critical if there is wood flooring inside the door. That is the case with many SOG houses.
I'm having difficulty understanding how the sill pan keeps water from seeping under it and into the hardwood.
Help a brother out.
Ummm.... the pan has a flange around the front.... sides and bottom. That's against the sheathing (and possibly the concrete at the bottom, depending on where you set plates). It has flanges around the inside, against the trimmer studs and forming a backdam. The door is set in the pan and on the doors I use the aluminum sill hangs out maybe 1" or so. The aluminum becomes oak towards the back and we notch the oak so that the backdam hides out underneath it.
I would not set an exterior door on slab house without a pan. I know a lot of guys would lay down a bunch of Sikaflex or Vulkem and glop the door down into it. I expect the door sill-to-jamb joint to leak eventually, and when it does I want it to leak into the pan, not back under the flooring.
What detail do you use?
That's all well and good... But what do you use to stop water from getting under the sill pan?
Geeze... Please forgive me.... I just had a moment of clarity that made me realize my inability to grasp this thread. Here in MD an average basement door through a foundation has a depth of at least 12" to bring it flush with interior finished basement walls. We never set them based on the exterior of the foundation... My bad.
Sill pans would work just great in that situation... I just can't imagine one having never run into it.... Forgive me.
Lemme think about that and get back to you. Everything we do here we are setting the exterior doors on either subfloor or slab, with finished floor immediately behind. On a recent house I omitted sill pans on exterior doors that were well under roof (they will NEVER get hit by rain) and have slate over concrete inside. Other than that it's pans everywhere under doors and windows.
Edited 8/18/2008 9:49 pm by davidmeiland
Normally a door sill pan is to kick water out so it does not wet and rot the framing below it. I have never used a pan over concrete as you descibe. Unless you have some sort of unique situation, you should not need it.
Are you going to do some sort of finished floor that raises above the slab on inside?
What is the purpose of the PT base you are setting? That would make for a raised curb situation otherwise.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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I would not attempt to make one unless you have no other option.
HD in our area carries SureSill sill pans. I like them the best of all that I have seen. They are plastic (no rot), sloped (positive drainage for any water on the pan), and have ribs that make a level area for the door sill (no concerns about a level sill on a sloped substrate).
You can make your own, but I view the corners as the weakest link, which is bad since you will likely have more water near the ends than in the middle.
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Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
That looks like a great design!Is it brittle in the cold?How much depth is needed for extra RO height to allow for using it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Is it brittle in the cold?"Not that I've experienced. But we've never installed them in REAL cold."How much depth is needed for extra RO height to allow for using it?"~3/8" H and about 1/2" W.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks for info on sill, definitely am going to try to run that down.
After I get this door installed the slab is going to need a little patchwork. It's all chipped and has a little area that slopes "back" towards the sill.
I want to mortar a little slope from the sill out a few inches to give it a nice finish.
The slab is sloped very nicely toward the drain, except for those few inces next to the sill.
I want to use the proper mortar, but am unsure which brand/type would be best for this. Any thoughts?
Use non modified thin set, it's bullet proof.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
Thinset huh? I wouldn't have guessed that. Interesting.
I think I'll try that....unless anyone objects :)
In the current issue of JLC (Journal of Light Construction), Bill Robinson has an article covering the making of sill pans, for doors and windows. He explains that he prefers vinyl coil stock, as it offers corrosion resistance that aluminum lacks. He cuts so as to be able to fold up at the corners and seal with PVC cement. Pictures, showing use of the brake for making bends, etc.