They’re pocket doors actually. They had a slight warp before I primed using an acrylic primer, but the primer caused them to warp just enough more so that now they rub on the metal studs. Had I known that they would warp, I would have used an oil primer. Not that oil would guarantee that they wouldn’t warp, but it would have been less likely.
I don’t think these doors will get very much use and they rub so lightly that it may never even be noticed, but I am wondering how much responsibility I have if the HO complains. If they do complain, it would be to the GC because I’m sure they wouldn’t realize it was the primer that exaggerated the warp.
I don’t work for the GC and I’m not a sub. I work directly for the HO. Of course I would want to do the right thing, but I’m not sure yet what that is.
-Don
Replies
I don't believe the primer had anything to do with warping the door. Unless you primed one side only.<G>
There is some pretty bad material being used for rails and stiles these days and quality control doesn't always catch a stick that should be firewood.
Like Ralph said, the only way you are responsible is if you only did one side at a time. Wood panels like this ALWAYS need to be sealed equally on both sides to prevent moves like this.
Nationaly, 15% of doors have some sort of problem - read that once in a trade journal. A lot of them never make it to the retai lmarket, but plenty get by. This should be brought to the attention of the GC so he can manage a replacement before it is too late for warrantees to helpp him out with the maker.
but there is more going on here, IMO.
This could be the HOs responsibility.
over the years, I have learned that HOs do not ever do things on a decent schedule. A door should be sealed and painted almost immediately. Most warrantee cards state this clearly.
i've had HOs want to do their own painting to save money but a year or two later, I see doors that are still unpainted. I can show you one garage where I used pre-primed windows. HO was doing his own painting. A year later, I reminded him about the windows, and again after three years. I'll be back there in another coule of years to replace them all now on his dime!
I did some Andersen patio doors for a couple painting their own house and inspite of precautions and multiple warnings and promises, they ended up with a warp of an inch with unfinished wood inside...
So I refuse to leave a job like that with no paint on the doors. It is not worth the complaints, because no matter how hard I try to impress them with the need, they will still think it is my fault, just like some think that I am responsible for rotted fascia when they fail to clean gutters even when small trees are growing in the debris....Now, doors get painted when they arrive or are installed, and I get paid for them.
All that to say this -
it sounds to me like the HO is taking the painting off the hands of the GC to save money, and it haas been a while - maybe they are even living in the house generating more moisture on one side than on the other...I opnly know what you have stated,but it sounds like better then 5-/50 that the HO is the responsible party.
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wax that door and be done with it. no sound-no problem.
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I completely finish the doors before I hang them.
I knew I should have learned to paint with both hands so both sides of the door could be painted at the same time :-)
I painted both sides, but (obviously) only one side at a time. I noticed the warp after I finished one side but before I got to the other. After I did the other side, nothing changed. Unfortunately, I can't paint all 6 sides because I can't get to the top and bottom anymore. Before the carpet was put in, I could have removed the doors, but it's too late now. At least it's too late for me since I haven't done it before and it's not really my job as the painter.
The reason that I'm doing the painting is because this particular builder doesn't get involved in painting at all. He doesn't even want to sub it out. He just leaves it up the HO. In the case of this HO, that's fine with her because she has a lot of final decorating that she wants to do and she wants to take it one step at a time.
And it works out great for me because I have an open invitation to go there and paint whenever my schedule permits. I know I won't have any down time (unless I choose to) for the next couple of months.
I met the GC today for the first time. He came to the house to look at some other issues. Very personable guy. I showed him the door without editorializing. His only comments were "that's unfortunate" and "we'll need to fix this". He could see that it had been primed, but didn't comment on that or ask what it was like before the primer. I didn't offer. I admire his attitude.
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
-Don
Don
I know that some door makers will not warrenty their doors unless there sealed on all 6 sides.
Yea, I know that you didnt have the oportunity to do so, the GC should have taken it off for you, or at lest sealed the sides that you couldnt get to.
When ever we build a door we seal the top and bottom with epoxy befor it leaves the shop.
Doug
Don,
I had this happen to me a few weeks back.
Painter came inand painted one side only. I swear you could see the door curl. Couple of days almost flat again. Painter does other side same thing. With in a week or so doors pretty much evened out.
I could have cut the split jamb a little thinner too.
I have wedged a long thin stick between the door and the metteal studs and by pushing against the door I was actuall able to introduce a slight crown on the studs away from the door, enough to cease the rubbing.
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All that sounds like it is the GCs job to deal with, unless it has been a long time since he installed it.
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I forget if you've said - is this at a kitchen, bathroom, or other location where the humidity would be higher on one side vs the other?
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I hate pocket doors in 2x4 walls. It is way too easy for way to many things to screw up.If the metal studs aren't bent to begin with, they're mis-aligned in framing, the sheetrockers bend them, the flooring guys move the brackets, or the door is warped to begin with.I think that there's a 1/4" acceptable bow in most door manufacturer's standards.I would hardly blame the painter, but there is no way a "slight" scaping on the metal studs is not going to transfer marks to a painted door.Maybe only the keepers need be adjusted. I've taken warped doors out (always a ton of fun), and laid them on horses, and put weight on them until they slightly warped the other way...moderate sucess. .Sometimes flipping the door works, if the harware hasn't been installed. Wax would be great as long as you're not the next painter<G>But it does sound like the GC understands, and isn't on it you.Is it a hollow core door, too? "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Is it a hollow core door, too?
No, it's a custom made door. 6-panel Poplar rails and stiles with hardboard panels. It's very nicely done.
-Don
No, it's a custom made door. 6-panel Poplar rails and stiles with hardboard panels. It's very nicely done.Well, except for that warping thing<G>Sounds like the builder's taking care of it...but, if it were mine, I'd be talking to the maker. "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Sounds like a stand-up guy.If he takes care of enough of these, he will leaarn something about paint and door sealing!
;)
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...or avoiding pocket doors...LOL "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
probably good to leave a case of food, a waterless toilet, a prybar and a cell phone in the big "closet" in case the homeowner gets trapped in there. good luck
Maybe I'm just lucky, but with all the pocket doors I've done, the only problem I had was the one where I shot about 18-20 15ga nails into it while doing wanescot on the wall. Forgot to change nail size....Lucky me, it was a painted door. A few hiours of bondo, sandpaper, and paint had me running again. Stain grade would have cost me a grand or more.
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Maybe I'm just lucky, but with all the pocket doors I've done, the only problem I had was the one where I shot about 18-20 15ga nails into it while doing wanescot on the wall. Forgot to change nail size....Ha, ha, ha...I've hit my share...and the score on pocket doors vs helpers...let's just say the doors can't come off the tracks if they're nailed open<G>Best I saw, though, was one the cabinet guys got with about 20 3" screws...and they weren't your namesakes LOL "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Such memories...
Get called back to a house I had trimmed except for baseboard (other carps from the company handling that).
Double 3' x 7' oak 8 panel pocket doors won't open, Yep, base board shot in with 2 1/2" finish nails. Arghhh!!
I forget if you've said - is this at a kitchen, bathroom, or other location where the humidity would be higher on one side vs the other?
I didn't mention, but there's no humidity source on either side.
It's an interesting design. The pocket doors lead to a "closet room". Some might call it a California closet, but it's the biggest one I've ever seen. It's probably about 200 sq. ft. Fully lined with a variety of cabinets, drawers and clothes rods. All of the clothes I own would only fill about 1/6 of the available storage space. They don't plan on having any dressers in the bedroom. It makes for a nice clean, organized space.
-Don
Like a dressing room or walk-in closet. Best place for a pocket door, IMO
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Don
Did you seal the door on all 6 sides? If not that could be part of the problem.
Doug
Here's an update. After completely drying, the warp in the door settled out at about 1/8". It doesn't sound like much, but there's more to the story.
Apparently, when the cabinet installers mounted a built-in cabinet on the wall of the pocket door, it was a very tight fit. So tight that they damaged the drywall sliding it in. I didn't see the damage because it had been repaired before I got there, but the carpenters saw it. This tight fitting cabinet, which bowed the wall, combined with the 1/8" warp is enough to cause the door to rub.
The GC removed the door and took it offsite. I don't know what kind of fix he has in mind.
NOW there's a problem with a hinged door. Again it was already warped a little (1/4") before I primed it, but now it's out by at least 1/2" at the bottom. That may get less as it dries and the door still works ok, but it does take a pretty good push to get it to latch.
The door is custom made from poplar with 6 horizontal panels. If I had paid $200 or less for this door, I would probably live with it. I suspect it cost the HO a lot more than that.