I’m building a Timberframe home and though most of the wood is on the inside, some is on the outside — big 8×8 posts and a large ‘bent’ at the entrance to the port.
I want some advice on what’s the best finish to apply to the outside wood — it’s under porch but facing south so it’ll get a good bit of sun. I’d like to keep the deep red/yellow color (this comes from a certain amount of UV) but not turn gray/black. Also, i’d rather not use a urathane/spar varnish but rather some type of oil.
Bob Cooper
Replies
How often would you enjoy reapplying this finish?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
BobC
Oil is OK for inside lite use however it has no UV property's that will protect it.. It also has no ability to withstand weather. A great grade of spar varnish like Epiphanes will provide the best possible protection but even that is three or four years at best!
I put four carefully applied coats of spar varnish on my black walnut timbers on the outside of my house and 4 years later (actually three summers) the wood is badly faded. There is some peeling and it is at least a year past the point where I should have sanded and reapplied several more coats..
The entryway was done with Epiphanes and that is holding better but clearly should be redone..
Nothing will protect the wood from fading. (other than paint which really defeats the whole effect of wood)
I understand exactly what you are attempting to do.. My house is a double timberframe.. black walnut timbers on the exterior and white oak timbers on the interior.. I searched high and low and went to every paint manufactures website.. Anything that gave a clear view of the grain and wood was at best a few years.. the more pigment in it the better it would hold up.
Epiphanes is the most durable marine grade varnish on the market.. it's horribly expensive and very particular in application, but a few years is all that I was able to get and even that has some definate fading of the wood..
Penofin Marine Finish is the best I know of. It's a penetrating oil in a "natural" color with 99% UV resistance. "Natural" means it's as clear as they can get it while still achieving this remarkable UV stability.
Penofin enables the outdoor structures and furniture I've built to withstand the elements fairly well; it needs to be reapplied from time to time, but doing so is far easier than re-applying spar varnish. You can get it tinted, too.
Good luck,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
:)
I didn't expect such response...i can tell you guys have struggled with this same issue. Especially you Frenchy if you've build a TF home out of 2 different woods <-- i recall reading some of your posts about it years ago.
I am willing to recoat these outside posts/bent every couple of years so i'm somewhat inclined to go with a non spar/marine varnish or urethane. Also it seems to me that it would be easier to initially go w/an oil like the Penofin (which i'd never heard of until now) and then later coat it w/a varnish (if i ever decided i needed to) vs. the other way around.
Also, have any of you ever compared Penofin to Waterlox's Marine finish?
Close call betwixt the two..but Waterlox wins by a head.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
I have an exterior, south-facing fir door. It's got Warterlox Marine on it. I should probably redo it every year...right<G> Don't forget how much mold loves oil...yummm.Here's a six year old door with 3 coats of WaterLox Marine applied 2 years ago...hey, parts of it still look really good<G>Both the same pics, take your pic... I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Haven't used Waterlox Marine, but with Penofin, yearly reapplication is warranted - much beyond that, and maintenance requires more effort and the looks deteriorate.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
How is it with mold? I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Hi Snort,
I haven't experienced any mold in conjunction with Penofin in Los Angeles or San Diego, but then again, we don't have much moss on the north sides of our trees here either! I reapply yearly after scrubbing off the surface muck with a ScotchBrite pad.
I can't speak to conditions in North Carolina.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Thanks, Penofin may be my new best friend<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
My one year old mahogany deck has some dirt that I would like to clean before re-applying Penofin (was coated twice already). Do you use any detergent with the scotch brites?
"Do you use any detergent with the scotch brites?"
I guess the answer is: "It depends on the condition of the surface."
If water still beads up on the surface, the wood feels smooth under hand, and there's nothing particularly gnarly to remove, a little biodegradable soap (that won't hurt the dog or the flower beds) and water may be sufficient.
On a surface that's still well-preserved, I may just use a little Simple Green & water with a ScotchBrite; on a large expanse of decking, I'll use a stiff bristled brush and Simple Green & water or a commercial deck brightener just so I can stand up and get the job done more quickly.
If the wood is dry, starting to splinter, etc, more drastic steps (and more darned work!) may be warranted - from moderate sanding to complete resurfacing. Besides, when the wood's in tough shape, it'll just snag a ScotchBrite and make you miserable.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Thanks for the advice. The wood is virtually perfect, water still beads, just a blackness that I think is partly due to the Gypsy Moth poop (another story) that has accumulated this spring. I did half of it (700 sf of deck total) with a stiff brush and a fairly diluted soap mixture of a powdered cleaner like TSP (but not the actual stuff)but the name escapes me now.
Another vote for Penofin. I have used Warterlox too, but only on interior pine floors and trim.
BobC
They really aren't the same thing.. ones a sealant and ones a protectant.. Be carefull with penophanes (sp?) several brands of paint react badly to it as an underlayment..
Waterlox is not rated very highly.. Wooden boat building has probably the best site for this discussion. Boats have a much harder time than a house being surrounded by water all of the time without benefit of a roof. varnishes that are highly rated by the boat builders really do stand up better on a house..
jazzdogg,
Penophanes was used by a near neighbor and within 5 years the wood was soooooooooooo badly faded and stained that paint was the only choice.. It has a limited amount of pigment in it. The pigment obsucures the underlying wood enough that I choose to go the spar varnish route instead..
Hi Frenchy,
Interesting information. You're right, of course: the look of well-maintained spar varnish on a classic boat or a mahogany front door is beautiful.
The reason I select Penofin instead of spar varnish for most of my outdoor projects is because spar has a look that's a bit fancier than I'm looking for most of the time, and because I find it easier to reapply Penofin every year than to be up on staging scraping, sanding, and reapplying spar varnish to a timber -framed gazebo every few years.
Cheers,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
The eternal question.
So frenchy, do you regret using a spar finish? I have recently reached the conclusion that I will never use a surface finish on exterior wood again.
But I guess you have to ask yourself this: are you prepared to scrape, sand, and refinish every year or two, OR can you live with your wood slowly turning a distinguished shade of silver with occassional reapplications of a penetrating oil with zero prep work?
To me, it is this simple. I would never put anything on exterior wood except penetrating oils that don't build up. Your wood will eventually age, but it will age with dignity, instead of peeling and discoloring in horrifying ways.
Of course, maybe my perspective is skewed because I have done so much timberwork with reclaimed wood and really appreciate the patina that comes with age.
jesse,
Regret? No not really!
For at least three years I was able to see that wonderful wood in all it's glory.. Oh, expected it to peel etc. and I was prepared to deal with that but the fading is something I hadn't counted on.. I felt that with a good marine spar varnish I'd get much more time before fading became an issue. I intend to either sand and scrape it and give it a coat of tinted spar varnish followed by several more coats of clear. or scrap and sand and give it a coat of paint.. the later I expect to last a decade or more while the former I expect another three years or so..
The house up the block from mine had penophane finish put on it and within 5 years was so badly faded and stained that paint was his only salvation.. It was actually worse than my spar varnish..
The dignity of wood aged to a wonderful silver luster has a certain appeal but in my community I would be in serious trouble.. Instead of seeing it as a choice they would see it as neglect..