Replies

1. 
   rdesigns | Jan 15, 2010 11:15am | #1

   Dowels are strong, but, to me, the biggest disadvantage is that you have to have enough of the right kind/length of clamps to assemble the face frame.

   I don't have experience as a professional cabinetmaker, but the few sets I've done, and what I see real pro's doing, is using pocket screws at the joints.

   This eliminates the need for clamps, and the resulting joint is plenty strong--you can assemble the entire frame in minutes, and be able to handle it immediately.

1. 
   brucet9 | Jan 15, 2010 12:54pm | #4

   If you use pocket screws, you need to make sure that the faces of the pieces are aligned and flush. Clamp them face down to a smooth hard work surface or another piece of stock before screwing them together.

2. 
   popawheelie | Jan 15, 2010 11:34am | #2

   I second what rdesigns said. Get the kreg pocket hole system.

   If you go to utube there are vidios of the system being used.

3. 
   xxPaulCPxx | Jan 15, 2010 12:08pm | #3

   I just built a face frame cabinet for the hallway out of maple - Kreg system worked great. I got their K4 system - while expensive, it's very helpfull and clear on all the settings you need to use for the various materials.

4. 
   TomT226 | Jan 15, 2010 02:42pm | #5

   If you have a TS with a dado blade, and a router with a table, mortise and tenon is easy. For 4/4 material, I like 5/16" tenons about 3/4" long. Since they're FF's, you don't have to house the tenons, just use a router table with a fence to make the mortises, and the TS with the dado blade for the tenons. Once you get set up, you can run dozens. If you want more detail, I'll post it here.

5. 
   Mike_Mills | Jan 15, 2010 04:15pm | #6

   Well, just for completeness, I think biscuit joinery has to be mentioned here as well.

   I've used dowels with limited success - poor alignment of faces and breakout through the face frame are the problems.

   I've have a Kreg pocket holer. It's way better than dowels.

   I haven't used biscuits but have seen others do so. They are a vast improvement over dowels (IMO).

1. 
   DanH | Jan 15, 2010 08:38pm | #8

   Yeah, I haven't done much
   Yeah, I haven't done much work of this sort, but enough to know that biscuits are way better than dowels and pocket screws are way better than biscuits. (Of course, biscuits have their place, and so do dowels, but probably not for face frames.)

6. 
   JTC1 | Jan 15, 2010 04:51pm | #7

   Another vote for Kreg pocket screws.

   Don't know which model jig I have but it works well.

   Like someone else mentioned, clamp the pieces to a flat surface for alignment while fastening.

   Drill, clamp, fasten, done.

   Jim

7. 
   Donkay | Jan 16, 2010 06:44am | #9

   Wood magazine did a study on face frames a few years ago. IIRC, they found that dowels were marginally stronger than other fastening methods including bisquits, but not too much. My conclusion was that they were not worth the effort in most instances. After all, these are cabinets, not ladders.

   Pocket screws are so much quicker to install. They also have the advantage of being removable if necessary - and if you didn't use too much glue.

1. 
   DanH | Jan 16, 2010 08:46am | #10

   Right, we had our kitchen cabinets refaced, and as part of it the guy removed the center stile in about 4 of them. Was easy since they were pocket screwed, but the stiles never moved before that.

1. 
   brucet9 | Jan 19, 2010 07:09pm | #13

   "...the guy removed the center stile in about 4 of them. Was easy since they were pocket screwed,..."

   That's no fun, he didn't even get to use his MM! :)

8. 
   megspop | Jan 18, 2010 08:57pm | #11

   As someone else stated, biscuits work well but I haven't used a joiner for this type of work in over a year since I got my Kreg jig. I think I paid $149 for the kit and it was worth every dime. The kit came with the DVD for the DIY'er.

   Good luck.

1. 
   rdesigns | Jan 20, 2010 09:46am | #14

   One possible drawback to biscuits for face frames is that the rails have to be considerably wider to swallow up the biscuits completely. For a #20 biscuit, you need a minimum of about 2-3/4". This begins to encroach on drawer heights, etc. Other biscuits are smaller, but you begin to lose strength, and they still need more width than pocket screws.

   And you still have to clamp the assembly till the glue sets.

9. 
   notatexan | Jan 19, 2010 12:28pm | #12

   I just finished a dozen cabinets using pocket screws. Unfortunately some idiot (me) built the over the fridge cabinet 2 in too high. My solution was to remove the cabinet top, take the cabinet to the table saw, and saw 2 in off the top all 4 sides. The top rail of the face frame still had chunks of the stiles attached so I backed out the screws and popped off the 2 in of stile. The glued end grain joint is not very strong. A couple dabs of glue, some clamps, and I screwed the rail back on. I re-installed the top (pocket screws). The cabinet was 2 in shorter.

   The whole thing took maybe a half hour. Much faster than building a new cabinet. All possible because I used pocket screws.

10. 
    [email protected] | Jan 20, 2010 02:39pm | #15

    Since these are face frames, they really don't see any stress once installed. So, just about any method you want will work.

    So, to me it comes down to is which tool, do you want to own.

    If you decide that you want a biscut joiner I recommend the Porter Cable. It comes with two blades, the standard one, and a "FF", or face frame blade that will work on 1-1/4 in wide stock. This is however the highest cost option.

    I tend to go along with most of the other folks, in recommending a Kreg jig, and pocket screws. The cost for the Kreg jig, and a quality doweling jig are pretty close to the same. And, the Kreg is in my mind more versatile.

    I use pocket screws far more frequently, than I do my dowling jig. I even do light framing for remodels with pocket holes in 2X4s, to minimize the damage to existing plaster walls and ceilings, that I tend to get with a hammer and nails.

11. 
    johnp | Jan 24, 2010 10:52am | #16

    Hi. For my cabinets I just clamped the two pieces with a tabletop hold down on a flat surface ,counterbored an inch or so then glued and screwed.