Neighbor just called me cause of smelly mud he found while excavating for an irrigation system.
About a year ago his drain field failed—– old red clay pipe system, I told him to dig it all up & go with an infiltraitor¯ system.
So new distribution box & 3 runs about 30′ each—– small septic tank & it’s only a one bedroom house.
Well anyways he dug up his distribution box & he had standing water above the 3 outlets.
I told him to dig up where the pipe enters the infiltraitors— he did & his inlet side was full to the top with water—- so I told him to expose the other end—- yup same thing full to the top.
He has my pump going on it now & a crew to show up tomorrow to dig up the whole middle run.
I told him that’s a good start & then dig it up about another foot deeper than it is now, then fill with water & see if it will drain.
I have seen land that won’t perk, but never on an exsisting drain field.
He was thinking of a fabric then about 2′ of gravel then infiltraitors over that– I said that would work if the land can actually take the water, but if it don’t then it’s just a bigger tank & just postpones the problem longer.
I’m open for any low cost ideas—– I allready know the expensive ones & he don’t want to hear that nor can he really afford it.
Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
Replies
If he's got that bad of perk, then he needs to cut all showers/BT's/washing machines out of the loop and put them into a grey water system. Smelly mud and standing water in an old field means aerobic mat build-up and the soil needs to be replaced. That's caused by too much water in the system.
We have clay soil, and use an evapotransporation system for the drain field. Excavate 1500 sq ft down 2', lay in gravel, 5 perf pipe runs with a vertical vent at each end (capped), fabric over the pipes, backfill with gravel, and sandy loam over that. 1000 gal tank.
I've seen a few things that would cause that:
-saturated ground (perimeter drain might help if an outlet is available)
-inadequately sized system (90' of fingers sounds shy to me but I know that Infiltrator allows for lineal feet reduction of fingers)
-I've seen a running toilet with a defective flapper flood a system
-too much use for a little system. I've seen people on a septice system with large families have Laundry Day and save all their laundry for 1 day of the week and flood the system. Unless they are on a dosing sytem, I recommend 1 load per day.
Good luck,
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Has he checked the tank to see if it's full of sediment? Was the tank even pumped when he reworked the drainfield?
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but the best bet is getting someone with expertise in site evaluation and design to look at the problem and design a system that will work. We can all speculate on the possible causes (and I'm gonna do that in a second, myself) but simply trying a solution suggested by someone who hasn't properly evaluated the site may get your neighbor more of what he has now. Plus, failing to following the local regulations could get him in more trouble and cause more expense in the long run.
Here's my speculative comments. Standing water in the system is caused by one of two things. Either the water table is high or the soil drainage is so poor that the water added from the septic system is just building up.
Obviously, if the water table is high, even seasonally, then going deeper is only going to make the problem worse (unless the groundwater is perching on a restriction with better drainage beneath). Saturated soil might also be due to surface and groundwater flowing toward the area of the drainfield, essentially causing a localized high water table. You could look at gutter drains, water flowing from a higher elevation, etc.
Poor soil drainage on a new system is due to soil conditions alone, but poor drainage in an older system may be due to soil clogging caused by solids from the septic system flowing into the drainfield. Those solids, which can be very, very small, can actually infiltrate into the soil pores and cause clogging feet below the interface of the drainfield and the soil.
Also, bear in mind that soils are stratified. There may be a very well-drained soil layer at the depth of the original installation, with more restrictive soils underneath. In which case, installing a foot deeper may put the system into soil that doesn't perc as well as needed.
In any case, excavating the soil in the original trenches and installing new lines may not help, and may make the situation worse. In my experience, installing new lines between the old ones is a better way to go, but even then, I'd move to a different area if at all possible.
And, if you haven't already done so, first make sure that there are no leaking plumbing fixtures in the house. It's amazing how much extra water can flow into a system due to a leaky toilet tank, and I've seen more than one "failing system" corrected by fixing the toilets. Similarly, the septic tank should be checked to see if groundwater is leaking into the tank and flowing into the drainfield, overloading the system. And, as another poster suggested, if the tank wasn't pumped when the last repair was made, then the new system may have failed because of solids flowing from the tank into the drainfield--a situation that would be even more likely if the tee's in the tank aren't in good condition and need to be replaced. (The lowest cost solution is one that doesn't involve replacing the drainfield).
I've probably said more than you want to read, but with more experience than I care to remember evaluating and designing septic systems, it's easy to get carried away. As far as low-cost remedies, you seem to have a grasp on that issue. If it works, gravel-filled absorption trenches are, in most places, the cheapest solution. If they'll work. In some cases, installing a shallower drainfield, even if an effluent pump is required, may be the cheapest solution that will work effectively.
But your neighbor needs to be sure that he isn't being "penny-wise and pound-foolish." Paying for a proper site-specific evaluation and design is likely to produce a solution that is less costly than repeated "low-cost" attempts to fix the system. And to produce a solution that is less likely to pollute the groundwater and cause a public health hazard.
First thanks to all.
It helps to have back up when my neighbor is hearing stuff that he doesn't want too.
Observations this morning---- middle run had a layer of septic silt ( very bad thing)
I think reality set in to him after I told him what all you guys said----- so he is going to call a septic company tomorrow & see what they say.
He's in panic cause it's septic & septics are no longer aloud in the city & sewer is not available----- he thinks they are going to kick him off his property-----LOL
It's fixable like I told him but he didn't want to hear me tell him those type of dollars.
I don't claim to be a drain field expert---- I have more expierence with sewage treatment than septic systems.
I'll keep ya'll posted when I find out more.
Some of the paticulars of the yard------ drop off on two sides---- one side even with my yard & drain field --- house side is level with a small hill behind the house.
Sand & glacial till type soil
I think his soil is clogged up from the many tank over runs that has happened Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
Yeah, sounds like the drainfield area is clogged from septic solids. Likely if he has a small tank it's only a single compartment, and that makes the situation worse. His tank probably needs to be pumped every two years at least, and likely wasn't pumped for decades.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Yeah I agree
I think his tank is 700 gallons at the most.
He just called me, he is looking into getting sewer.
I said well more power to ya if ya can do it.
There is sewer on other streets but not down ours, my other neighbor is on sewer , but he got that in cause he used to own the house behind him so when he built he got an easment & pumped a sewer line through that property.
If they were to put sewer down our street it would be really friggin deep & expensive.
I know he wants me to go along with this to share the costs------- I may be friendly & help him out with his various remodeling adventures, but I aint the bank & don't want anything to do with hooking up to sewer.
edit----- 500 gallon tank
Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
Edited 5/7/2006 11:48 pm ET by plumbbill
don't want anything to do with hooking up to sewer
Amen. ... King co sewer bills are over $40 a month PLUS another $30 month for new houses to pay for P. Sound clean water 'initiatives'.
35 years times $40 a month = >$16 K, so depends on extent of septic repair cost.
I think he's gonna have to do a new drain field---- my rough guess would be 8 to 12 grand.
Hooking up to sewer is gonna be a pain for him----- I think the hook up fee is about 8 grand & he's gonna have to do an easment to get to the sewer.
Unless he plans on runnin it down the street then were lookin just under 80 grand to do that my educated guess but those are late 90's #'s
If it was me I would install a second tank to act like a multi compartment tank--- then run a pressurised system ( yes I know it goes against my plumbing should work on gravity law that I live by) & turn the whole front & side yard into a drain field.Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
Remember that close to 40 days and nights of rain we had this winter?
The water table is still very high from that, highest I've seen in the Renton hill area in 38 years, probably similar in Tacoma. Had thought of building another house in the back and have watched the GWL for a long time, usually 4 feet or more down. Went out in Feb and dug a few hole with the backhoe and the water level was within 1 foot of the surface 'everywhere' on my property, even areas 9 ft higher than the seasonal pond and only 60 feet away. Still with that, did not have any problem with own septic system.
The neighbor may not have the problem after mid June and then not for another 30 plus years. If you are part way down the hillside with another 40+ feet of elevation above you, the GWL where you are still is likely only a few feet down. Dug a 3 ft deep hole (8ft by 6 ft, they like to run the BH too) in the back last week for the grandkids to play in, bottom had a foot deep water pool within a half hour, typical winter the water level is over 3 ft down in that spot.