Replies

1. 
   McPlumb | Dec 10, 2006 08:20pm | #1

   If your cleanout is on a horizonal line, find a male pvc adapter, put pipe dope for plastic on it and screw it in. Lay a 3x2 wye on it's side, come out of the wye with a 2 inch trap, you should have an 18 inch  by 2 inch riser on the trap  to put your washer discharge hose into. Put a 3 inch clean out adapter and plug in the open end of the wye. Use plastic pipe dope on the clean out too. Tighten the plug hand  tight then a quarter turn. Then take the rest of day off.   Good luck.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/10/2006 12:25 pm ET by McPlumb

1. 
   twofingers | Dec 10, 2006 10:07pm | #3

   The main line is perpendicular to the basement floor. 4" wye clean-out begins approx. 2" off the basement floor and adapts to 3" cast above the wye.So basically - just add a pvc wye to the existing cast wye? That sounds a heck of a lot easier than what I had planned. I was going to cut the 3" cast pipe and go from there.Then just make sure I trap and vent and I should be golden.thnx

1. 
   Jemcon | Dec 11, 2006 02:15am | #4

   I don't think you need a vent. The top of the stand pipe is open so air flow is not a problem. You do need a trap for gases. 

    

    

   Headstrong, I'll take on anyone!

1. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 11, 2006 07:28am | #5

   You need a vent for every trap.

1. 
   plumbbill | Dec 11, 2006 08:20am | #6

   See, now yer learnin“It so happens that everything that is stupid is not unconstitutional.” —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

2. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 11, 2006 09:05am | #7

   Man, I BEEN knowin that.

3. 
   McPlumb | Dec 11, 2006 04:57pm | #8

   Codes vary with your local and phases of the moon, Anything within ten lineal feet of the stack doesn't need a vent in my area.

4. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 11, 2006 05:42pm | #9

   What code is that?

5. 
   McPlumb | Dec 11, 2006 08:07pm | #11

   I've done three bathrooms this year that would fall under this, All three passed inspection. Local PI said if fixture was within ten lineal pipe feet of stack there was no need to backvent. The inspector was in the plumbing business for many years also passed state license before becoming inspector. When asked what code book I should buy he suggested IPC with commentary 2003. I think our area is fortunate to have him after what has gone on here in the past.

6. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 11, 2006 10:30pm | #12

   I'm tempted to say that you should install UPC or IRC compliant vents anyway, just to CYA, but you have a "plumb" after your name and I do not. I couldn't get anything like you are describing to pass in this jurisdiction, and we are IRC '03, which I believe allows much longer trap arms than the UPC.

7. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 11, 2006 10:39pm | #13

   http://www.codecheck.com/pg13_14plumbing.html#ventsAccording to this you can run 8 ft if you are IRC, and 5 ft for UPC.The IRC is suppose to be the sub-set of the IPC and other I codes that are used by 1 &2 famialy homes..
   .
   Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

8. 
   McPlumb | Dec 11, 2006 11:14pm | #14

   Sorry for the delay had to run a service call, even got a 10 dollar tip. I looked in the book because I was curious too. Couldn't find it either. I have noticed that pluming and health inspectors do occasionally have there own interpertaion of the code thats why I suggested it may relate to phases of the moon earlier.

   If you really want to get under a health inspectors skin, ask him to send you a copy of the regs pertaining to some minor detail he's on you about. Most times there aren't any.

9. 
   CapnMac | Dec 12, 2006 12:00am | #15

   do occasionally have there own interpertaion of the code thats why I suggested it may relate to phases of the moon earlier.

   Met that guy a time or two <sigh> . . .

   Wait, crud, I'm "in" this reply and can't go back to look, IIRC, OP is putting in a washer drain, in the basement, next to the main soil stack; correct?

   So, this is an open bit of pipe attached to the soil stack by way of a simple trap?

   Isn't OP going to want a stop valve of some sort for those times when there's more than the 36" of water column in the stack?

   Not so much a code, as practical question of fluid physics (especially as I'm a bit too lazy to cipher up the gallons in 3" x 36 and the, what, 48+36 x 1.5" of the washer drain . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

10. 
    twofingers | Dec 12, 2006 01:25am | #16

    Hmm - thought I had it figured out until the last post :)Yes, I am trying to tie into the "main" stack which is, from what I understand, what you call the 3" cast pipe that extends out of the wye clean-out from the soil stack.The "soil" stack is the 4" pipe below the wye clean-out and heading down into the floor of the basement and out to the sewer lines, and the "main" or "house" stack is the 3" cast that begins at the top of the wye and extends to the ceiling of the basement.What I would like to do, is to use this main stack to drain a washer.I am in the city, so no septic system. Not sure if that matters or not.Thanks for the help so far.

11. 
    McPlumb | Dec 12, 2006 07:27am | #18

    My picture of this is a clean out 2 or so inches above the floor, with good odds the clean out is on angle. If this picture is correct, use a threaded male adapter in place of the clean out plug.  Next a tee or wye whatever allows you to properly position the two inch trap, after the trap a 2 inch riser minumum of 18 inches tall, more is ok, less is a no no. Put a cleanout and plug in the open end of the fitting. Do not reduce the original size of the cleanout, if it's 4 inch use a 4 inch fitting with a 2 inch takeoff.

    I'm noticing this dicussion is heading down that drain soon.

12. 
    twofingers | Dec 12, 2006 01:41pm | #19

    ... and that's exactly what I'm going to do.Thanks guys.

13. 
    Soultrain | Dec 12, 2006 05:02pm | #20

    If I were doing that, I'd use an air admittance valve between the trap & the drain.  Otherwise, w/o a vent, you'll lose the seal in your trap - lots of stinky air in your basement.

    The AAV allows you to vent without trying to find a spot to run all the way up to the attic.

14. 
    Shacko | Dec 12, 2006 06:59pm | #22

    I agree with you, even though I hate a AAV it beats no vent when you can't put a real one in. Glad you understand the potential siphoning of the trap with no vent, glad you get the concept. "May the force be with you".............................................
    "If all else fails, read the directions"

15. 
    Inspector704 | Dec 13, 2006 05:25am | #24

    Plumbing code requires that all traps down stream from any water closet (Toilet) requires a vent without consideration to distance away from the stack.

2. 
   Shacko | Dec 11, 2006 06:12pm | #10

   If I understand you right you are tying into the main soil stack, if so you have to have a vent on your connection before the trap; otherwise every time a fixture is used on the upper floor it is allmost guaranteed to siphon the trap. The open end of your stand pipe will not protect the trap seal. Lots of luck........................................
   "If all all else fails, read the directions"

1. 
   jrnbj | Dec 12, 2006 06:38am | #17

   I think you don't siphon out the trap because, unless the main line is seriously plugged, you'd never get a solid column of water in the 3" stack.....

1. 
   Shacko | Dec 12, 2006 06:34pm | #21

   If you have a serious clog in the stack most of the time it will back out of the nearest fixture to the clog. Most designs for sanitary systems are calulated to NOT fill up the pipe diameter. Its the velocity of the water creating a venturi effect that siphons the trap. Thats why most codes require a vent on anything downstream of another fixture. Info. only...................................
   "If all else fails, read the directions"

2. 
   jrnbj | Dec 13, 2006 05:11am | #23

   Wish I knew more physics....
   Seems like the code allows it, so it must work ok...
   I'm guessing that, as a rule, the water going past the trap arm isn't moving fast enough, and isn't a steady, full pipe flow, to exert enough venturi force to siphon out the trap....
   I do wonder how the restriction on how long the branch can be was figured, & why it is necessary....any ideas?

3. 
   Inspector704 | Dec 13, 2006 06:06am | #25

   The distance a trap arm can be from a stack/vent is based on the slope of the horizontal pipe.  For example: Using a 2" diameter pipe the maximum distance the trap arm can be is 8' at 1/4" per foot slope.  This all centers around wet venting a bathroom group of fixtures.  Reference Chapter 9 Vents in the IPC for more details. 

4. 
   McPlumb | Dec 13, 2006 05:03pm | #26

   My copy of IPC, says 2 inch with 1/4 slope, max distance of fixture trap from vent is 6 foot. Personal interpration of code is a very gray area, and yet seems some how right appropriate for cyberspace.

   Remember the bumble bee theory.

   Do what works and move to next project.

5. 
   Inspector704 | Dec 13, 2006 10:38pm | #28

   I need to clarify a few things.  Our jurisdiction is still using the 2000 IPC until 12/31/06 and I should have been more clear with my example.

   I was basing my example on the 2000 IPC and failed to identify my trap size as 1-1/2".  You are correct in stating that based on a 2" trap and 2" fixture drain with 1/4" per foot slope, the max distance the protecting vent can be from the trap weir is 6 ft. per Table 906.1 in 2003 IPC 

    

   Edited 12/13/2006 7:18 pm ET by Inspector704

6. 
   Shacko | Dec 13, 2006 09:32pm | #27

   Back in the old days the code said 5ft. from a stack without a vent, there are hundreds of thousands of these systems installed without no probs. but the ones that didn't work caused sickness or death; thats when they changed the code, 60's where I work. It takes very little venturi force to break the seal of the trap. The distance from the trap to the stack is usually calculated to make sure that you don't create a self siphoning s-trap, this usually means that the local code tells you what the distance is [it varies]. Most of the time this only applies to a connection that has no fixtures above it, bottom line is that I think that a vent should be installed. Lots of luck...................................................
   "If all else fails, read the directions"

2. 
   brownbagg | Dec 10, 2006 09:45pm | #2

   you got to have a P trap