The other day on TV there was a program with the plumber from
” This Old House, ” who was installing a grab bar in an existing tile wall. A few days ago, here, a thread discussed the type of hangers he used.
Now my question(s) pertain to the tool he used to make the hole in the wall. He, the plumber, told the HO he was going to use a carbide tipped hole saw to drill thru the tile
What type of carbide will cut tile? Or, was that particular tile he was working with soft enough to use an ordinary carbide tool?
I have carbide tipped holesaws, but I thought that since regular carbide drill bits just burn when drilling into tile, the hole saws would act the same.
The plumber’s remarks makes me think there is tile you can use for a shower wall that is soft enough to drill a dry hole in to
that doesn’t require
special bit.
I thought a diamond tip, or
spade bit were the only tools that would cut tile.
maddog
Edited 5/12/2005 8:46 pm ET by maddog
Replies
""I thought a diamond tip, or ####spade bit were the only tools that would cut tile""
Yep that's right!
OK,
So carbide will NOT work on porcelain ! then what the .....
was that plumber talking about? no need to answer this I'm just venting
Dog,
Milwaukee makes a hole saw for tile, so I ordered it. I thought they sent the wrong thing. It looks like a regular hole saw, 'cept it is gold colored. Went right through wall tile like nothing. Had to order the carbide 1/4" pilot bit also.
Cost of the saw, and bit, but no mandrel was $25.29
Bowz
Bowz, Did you order directly from Milwaukee or do you have another website? And does the thing work on a regular arbor? maddog
I ordered it through Lincoln Contractors Supply. You have one in Madison. Though I would think any Milwaukee dealer could order it.
Lincoln's product # MET-49561253 for the hole saw.#MET-49568005 for the pilot bit.
And it fits the regular mandrel/arbor
Bowz
Here is what I have used to drill through porcelain tile, and porcelain is hard stuff.
View Image
It is sold at my local hardware store and called a "tile and glass bit."
"Here is what I have used to drill through porcelain tile, and porcelain is hard stuff.
View Image
It is sold at my local hardware store and called a "tile and glass bit."
Ditto.
Edited 5/12/2005 8:52 pm ET by dustinf
Yep that's what I was talking about. I am looking for somehting larger for the spigot
You can drill a series of small holes, close together around your planned cutout, and then break out the middle.
leave it to me to take something easy .......and make it expensive .thank you much
For larger holes in soft wall tile I use a 1/8" carbide bit in my cut out tool(roto-zip, dremel, whatever).
http://imagex.homedepot.com/f/248/13340/7d/www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/130556_4.jpg
For larger holes in harder tile, or porcelin i use a diamond wheel in my grinder.
Edited 5/12/2005 9:53 pm ET by dustinf
Thanks Dustin,
So ,there is some tile that is soft enough to cut with carbide ,AND use in the bathroom by the shower/tub? maddog
I've found most tile that is considered "wall tile" is usually soft enough to cut with the roto-zip. I think it's the glazing on the tile that gives it resiliency to water.
We recently had to install a bunch of grab bars in a school, & used carbide hole saws to drill through the tile. They worked fine. We found a few local tool stores here in the Chicago area that carried them. If you need to order them online, Wingits.com carries a couple sizes for the installation of their grab bars.
http://www.wingits.com/%5EWingIts/ecart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=103&cat=INSTALLATION+ACCESSORIES
You can also use a roto-zip with a tile bit.
carbide? in tile? that's new to me but , I'll try that too. learn something everyday.
What about carbide grit holesaws? I've used 'em to cut ceramic tile, lubed and cooled with water, although I'm not sure that's needed.
http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/groupf.asp?GrpTab=Feature&GroupID=120
http://www.mytoolstore.com/mkmorse/tcg.html
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
What dustinf said. Porcelain wall tile cuts like butter, porcelain floor tile cuts like it were made from diamonds. On wall tile, a rotozip with a tile bit will cut it very easily, but that same bit will burn up in the floor tile. Those tile spade bits work well but don't get them at Home cheapo, I drill 5 holes fine then the bit fell apart on the sixth.
Here the link to the archive of the show, you can search for what they used for tools and materials.
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvprograms/asktoh/showresources/episode/0,16663,516206-516106,00.html
Getting a Grip
Tom shows two homeowners how to install a safety grab bar in their bathtub and shower.
Where to Find It
Tom used a 1.25-inch carbide-tipped hole saw to cut the tile. He then installed the grab bar using a unique fastening system manufactured by:
Wingits Innovations
181 West Clay Avenue
Roselle Park, NJ 07204
877-894-6448
http://www.wingits.com
There's a difference between porcelain and ceramic tile. It's very rare to encounter porcelain wall tile. I don't actually remember ever having worked with any.
Ceramic tile is, as you mentioned, much softer. In the old days, I used to rent very expensive and very fragile diamond-tipped core drills for cutting circles out of tile; you started these from the back, unglazed, side of the tile and you had to go very slowly.
Now I've got an expansion cutter which adjusts infinitely to any hole size from about ¾" up to almost 4". Here's a photo of it:
View Image
This has a replaceable pilot bit and a replaceable carbide cutter. (I haven't had to replace either yet.) For ceramic or terra-cotta tile, you can turn this dry in a low-speed drill, no more than about 400 rpm max. I would say though, that if you had to cut through porcelain, you'd be well advised to keep squirting it with water so as not to overheat the carbide cutters.
It cuts from the face side of the tile, too. Nice little tool....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I've seen those before but never needed the hole to be that clean, most of the time its covered by a toilet, shower valve cover, etc. How well do those work on floor tile?
On ceramic and terra cotta floor tile it shouldn't be a problem. I haven't had occasion to use that cutter on porcelain floor tile, so I couldn't say for sure how it works on that. In theory it ought to work well, in that the pilot bit is similar in construction to the arrowhead bits used to drill glass and porcelain. I would keep a squirt bottle or mist-sprayer of water handy though; if you overheat the carbide you'll ruin it before you can cuss twice....
You're right about not normally needing a hole in tile to be super clean; the nature of the material and the difficulty in cutting so clean a hole has led us to pretty much always use escutcheons to cover the ugly. But if you happen to hit a supply line right in the middle of a tile, it's easier to cut a nice round hole with one of these cutters than to try to drill a bunch of tiny holes and punch it out.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
The carbide cutter Dino has is fine for wall tile; nigh useless on hard floor tile and porcelain. And almost nothing will drill large clean holes in porcelain.Problem: it's becoming quite common for people to choose large (12x12 or larger) floor tile for tub and shower surrounds. That's because the wall tile available these days is either ugly as sin or expensive as hell. Today you can buy very attractive porcelain (floor) tile for under $2/s.f. Solution: a glass and tile bit for small holes, angle grinder and diamond blade for large holes, and a 1 1/4" diamond core bit (diamond hole saw) is what you need to drill the tub and shower stubs. It's expensive ($75) but it works... and no pilot bit to get dull after every other hole.
Tiles vary greatly in strength and hardness. Floor tiles in particular are very hard.One thing with the Milwakee carbide hole saws is that the substrate can wear the carbide off the bit. I've just done a bunch of tile work including repair of a 1920s bath where we needed to cut through for a tub fill. The bit cut through the tile ok, but the thin set and hardiboard we had used to patch in killed the carbide on the bit. I don't know if the expensive diamond tip ones would have worked or not, but the solution we came up with was to use the carbide hole saw to cut through most of the tile and leave a template for the hole. Then we used a tile bit in a rotary tool to cut through the board and thin set. We had a extra thick layer of thin set because of the patching that we had to do.
Hey, I have tried drilling with a carbide holesaw since the answers starting showing up here, drilling from the back is easier since there is no ....glaze? carbide just squeaked around on the front, but the diamond saw went thru either way a lot easier. The tile face chipped from using the carbide but not as noticable with the diamond, I know it will be covered but I just noticed the difference. and I did use a water bottle. maddog
Many thanks to all for your insight and experiences, I will fire up one of my carbide holesaws and have at it , which by the way do a fine job of drilling through plaster / wire lath and into cinder block. oooaah maddog
I will fire up one of my carbide holesaws and have at it , which by the way do a fine job of drilling through plaster / wire lath and into cinder block. oooaah
'Wire lath'--eeeeessshhh! Don't let the drill bust your wrist when the teeth get caught in the lath....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Reminds me of this know-it-all who when carbide circ.saw blades first came out told me.."u can cut anything with these! Then told me he was going to go and cut this quarry tile with it. "Ah...just let me get behind this door" i said..as 32 carbide teeth started flying around the room.!Or even watching a guy try to cut a pc. of patio door glass with one.A lil less dangerous but way more dramatic.. and it wasnt till the third pc and we were bent over laffing he finally got the message!Made pretty gravel tho.
This guy...he didn't preface everything he did with the phrase, "Hey, bubba! Watch dis!" did he?
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I'm tellin' ya the holesaw went thru all three, I was feeding slowly
and didn't realize there was a block behind the plaster! It was in an old chuch and this must have been a patch job cuz it was almost solid from face of the wall to the face of the block.
After I drilled all of the columns, about thirty holes, only one column was laminated as I mentioned above, I went back to drilling out the maple floor for some floor boxes, and the saw went thru that like poop thru a goose. the saw was 2 12"dia
the saw went thru that like poop thru a goose. the saw was 2 12"dia
Okay, gotcha. I had visions of you trying to hang onto a 4-incher....
I once used a 6" holesaw to bore a hole in a gable wall for a plug-in vent grill. When the holesaw was almost all the way through the siding and the sheathing, it hit a piece of blocking and bound up tight. Before I could let go of the trigger, that big-a$$ Makita drill I usually use to turn my mud mixer just twisted me in the other direction and my feet kicked the ladder sideways off the building. I wound up hanging 15 feet off the ground hollering for the helper to come put the ladder back up right quick....
I hate when that happens.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Yeah , me too,
I have trouble with those larger sizes in ceiling tile! I found it easier for me to turn them by hand or verrrrry slow speeds, and also in reverse to save wear and tear on the wrists
I have to say that the carbide tipped saws have exceeded my expectations, I lost count after 60 2 1/2" holes. between plaster and hardwood that thing showed no sign of getting dull, I was able to get maybe three holes with a bimetal bit and it would be literally worn out . maddog
It all depends on the tile. Some yes, some no. Diamond will cut no matter what. Usually floor tile is a no go with carbide, unless it's the softer Mexican terra cotta.
You have the answers allready, but this is one that no-body said. If you are going to drill a small hole in wall tile you can use a regular bit if you take a center punch and gently knock the glaze of before you start. Thought you might like to know; for future reference.