which way should the aluminum drip edge be installed accross the bottom of a roof? I’ve always seen it installed on top of the underlayment – after the underlayment was installed. This makes a little more sense going down the sides of the roof, but accross the bottom, it seems counter intuitive.
Accross the bottom of the roof, would it not make more sense to install the drip edge first, then the water-shield, tarpaper on top of it. That way any water that does make it to the underlayment still goes over the drip edge, instead of under it.
thanks
st
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Yes, the drip edge goes on top of the sheathing and the felt paper or ice and water shield go on top of the drip edge, then the roofing. Layered roofing materials go on top of the preceding one so that water running down hill cannot run under any of the layers, if it should get under due to a hole or wind.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hey hammer i agree with ya thats the way we do it
but while reading yopur post i was remembering when ice and water first came out
boss man and i argued at every roof-- instructions said to put the ice and water down first, wrap down on the facia.then the drip edge
common sense says metal then ice and water
have to love those directions
An opine...
Considering the adhesive effect of ice&water shield on the sheathing covering 36inches as opposed to a seal of approx. 3inches if laid atop of the drip edge before bare sheathing would be exposed to water intrusion via hard wind horizontal rains or ice damage.
makes sense to me.
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Technically - ueah, all lapps need to fae downhill, but this is one where an exception can be considered and either way accecptable.
Couple of reasons.
practical - on a new house, we dry in mauybe three to five weeks before doing the actual shingling, sometimes more. The fascia isn't even on yet, so perfection there demands waiting to dry in the roof untill the soffit and facia are on, letting water into the house in the menatime - niot good for the house.
So on that front, if you want to be fanatic, you have to slit the tarpaper and slide another slip in thereand over the eave metal.
Another thing is side efects - with righrt weather - ice, gutters etc, water can wick up under the shingles that 5" of metal. So if you place metal first and then the tarpaper, the water that folowed the metal up under is going to hit what? - The plywood.
Consuider the tarpaper as the base line of insurance, but the metal is part of the final shingle package. The top edge of the metal faces uphill - sure. So does the top edge of every single shingle you lay. If waterr gets in at any of those locations, it folllows the tarpaper down and off under metal and over fascia. if not, sombody left the tarpaper too short when they put it on.
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what you said.
But..( I love that word)..Drip edge is not for anything but shingle support, it serves no purpose as far as weathering concerns go..
If water gets there, yer already looking at a fix it up, due to crappy install of the weatherable protection..
But, you knew that.
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Drip edge is actually very beneficial.
In the case of a gutter(eavestrough) the drip edge will let the water off the roof be directed into the gutter/trough and will not allow water to trickle between the back edge of the gutter/trough and the Facer.
A slight 'kick-out (1/2")on the lower vertical part of the drip edge will also keep any water away from the Facer edge (staining) when no gutter/trough is used.
Drip edge drip flashing is commonly used in most parts of Canada, and is normally installed adjacent to (under ) the starter course shingle.
It can normally be bought in 8' or 10' lens at most building centers, or it can be custom made at any sheet metal fab shop.
You've expressed my same feelings.It's much more than ornamentation,it keeps water off the fascias,etc.
As a slate roofer I see the importance of it's use all the time.
you are exactly right. When in doubt read the shingle package.
The drip edge protects the fascia or crown by having a metal edge to cover the wood,and let water drip off away from that edge.It really is more important for that reason than shingle support.
Here we go..
Drip edge is ORNAMENTAL..it serves NO purpose. IF water gets there, the roofing is shoddy, period.
I reroof daily, doing a historical renovation as we speak, archys did not spec drip edge for a roof...wood shakes, ya know why?
It is useless.
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sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
HUH?STOP, DROP, ..............ROCK 'N' ROLL
A properly formed drip edge prevents water from following the eaves edge around and dribbling directly down the face of the fascia board, from where it can actually roll back uphill under the soffit on low-slope roofs and start rot problems PDQ. That's why it's gotta have a decently bent out bottom-edge kicker bend. The smooth metal surface is also supposed to be easier for the water droplets to detatch from when they get down to the kicker. The drip edge is supposed to promote free dripping into the air.
I find that, in practice, extending the shingles a solid ¾" past the drip edge helps more than anything else on problematic, low-slope jobs. Whatever ya do, ya gotta get that water into free-fall before it starts sliding down the woodwork....
And BTW, I put the metal on under the felt. In Piffin's new-construction explanation, I follow the reasoning but I do it differently. If there's no stick-down membrane for ice-damming, I just place the staples in the lower edge of the felt high enough above the eaves edge so I can roll back the felt and slip the drip edge in later without having to pull the staples. Then, once that's installed, I run a bead of pitch down the top surface of the drip edge (there's another one under it, of course) and push the felt down into it. Pitch in tubes applied with a pneumatic caulking gun is a roofer's best friend....
Dinosaur
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geeze, no fun in Rockville..i gotta get them smiley icons.
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Oh, I see the FU...the street roofs dont get it, the main structure does..either way, I think its all a matter of preference, not necessarily beneficial or advantageous to water proofing.
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I wasn't questioning whether drip edge is needed or not. Neither of those buildings ever had any on before and they've been around since early 1800's. I was questioning whether the architect spec'd drip edge or not. He did. Lead coated copper. That's why were using it. I don't normally use drip edge with wood roofs unless I'm told to unless theres a specific reason to, such as a gap between the fascia and roof that needs filling. Proper overhang of the shakes or shingles is critical though.
Asphalt shingles are another story. At the very minimum, the drip edge adds strength to get the shingles extended out further from the rake or fascia board. The further the water drips from the fascia, the less likely it is to get on it or behind it. I used to see the top of the eave fascia beveled to meet plane of roof sheathing. Now, we have to measure first to see how tall to make the verticle flange on the drip edge to cover the big gap between the top of the fascia and sheathing.
I agree that the drip edge doesn't need to go over or under the felt or anywhere else for that matter if you've done your roof correctly. If you're doing something up above that you need to compensate with drip edge for, it's not gonna save you. It does provide a nice clean termination for most types of roofs and can help solve some design problems.
Edit: Oh yeah. You ought to post some pics of your oak roofs on the drug store and the opry house.
STOP, DROP, ..............ROCK 'N' ROLL
Edited 4/24/2005 7:35 am ET by greencu
Right on..I wondered why they choose not to use it on the shed roof out front..but like you describe, it is uneeded there.
I'll get a pic tomorrow...if it aint snowing..LOL
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Sphere,I haven't framed one house yet where someone used drip edge before. I've done some additions where a GC used it but as far as new construction you wont see drip edge going on new homes unless there doing it somewhere else that I don't know about in NJ. When the sheathing is done the shingles go on to keep the house water tight, sometimes with or without facsia or rakes. The roofer will stick the shigles past far enough to allow for the fasia or rakes.Joe Carola
Cool, but..he signs my paycheck..LOL
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duane... you are so WRONG about drip edge
all shingles , and especially wood shingles can transport water by capillary action right up the underside of the shingle..
it is very easy for water to get on top of and behind the fascia unless there is a metal drip edge... AND.. the drip edge has to be able to drip.. in other words it has to stand off the fascia and cannot hug it tight..
when the water comes down the roof, it gets to the bottom of the shingle.. then either capillary action OR wind will return the water around the drip edge,, it will follow the metal to the bottom... and then... DRIP
no drip edge? it will follow the shingle back until it looses it's drive then run down the underlayment OR the sheathing and soak the fascia..
this is why paint fails on the top of the fascia..
for many years.. we always used wood shingle starter courses fro our asphalt shingles.. any house with this detail .. the wood starter course will always be rotted and crumbling..
nowadays.. suppose we wanted to extend the roof edge ? we could still use a wood starter course.. BUT we'd put a metal drip edge over the starter course before we start our asphalt shingles
i insist on metal drip edge on ALL roof edges including rakes.. even if they have decorative crown or bed moulding.. what's so decorative about molding with rotted ends and peeling paint?
but hey, whadda i no ?
other than that ... who loves ya ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I always have liked poking a hornet nest with a stick..LOL
Glad to have your attn.
What I always see is that the drip is installed after the felt, thereby defeating the very purpose of being there to shed any intrusion.
Do you felt OVER the nail flange?
While I can agree that DE can help with the capillary action that MAY occur , and cap the subfacia /fascia / sheathing junction..it still remains to be seen what it really accomplishes...what about holding moisture? what about the expansion and contraction of differing materials?
I just wanted to project a thought process and get a rise from the old farts....
Hang in there...I still love ya too.
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Hi Fellas,
Mind if I jump in a lil? I wont comment bout if drip edge is needed or not, way to many people fight bout it already. I do however have an interest in it. In response to Framer, I do see dripedge in North Jersey, mostly on additions and modulars . In response to Mike G., THANK YOU for mentioning that drip edge should not be slammed up against the fascia so tight you cant get a sheet of paper under it. Maybe I should qualify my interest, I'm a gutter installer, and drip edge (when it is present ) is constantly a source of discussion with the GC or whoever is in charge at the job. WHy? is it installed so tight?
For whatever reason , its always the PITA who slams it up tight, that wants the damn gutter slid up under it, not the easiest feat with todays hidden hangers. If the roofer would just leave a little room. then , like Mike mentions, the nice little drop of water would break its adhesion at he edge and drop into the nice gutter, which would have been correctly installed under the drip edge.
Ej
Thanks fer the input.
Lemme tell ya this little fact ...( greencu can jump on this as well, being as he is the one who learnt me)..our copper standing seam pans wrap the DE and are crimped..meaning, if there is NO DE, there is no way to secure the pan.
I am certainly no expert on the subject, but I have a lot of DE in my past. Your obsevation about gutter hangers is a valid concern. My recent exp. has been shanks that are installed prior to DE and half round gutter hung , thereby not haveing to be tucked up under a DE.
I can only imagine a nightmare, trying to tuck a "K" gutter behind a DE, when you are solo.
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Mike is absolutely right on.
Piffin said; "drip edge is absoolutely necessary."
Sphere said; "being he is the one that LEARNT me"..says it all (lol)
All in jest Hube, remember the post a month or so back , where someones customer wanted the DE ON TOP of the shingles?
He was serious, I was not.
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duane ... we use 3' of ice & water.... then we put our drip edge on... then starters and shingles...
if the water somehow gets blown back 4" it can get over the top of the dripedge.. but it will still stay off the fascia because of the drip edge
take a hose out to a roof edge sometime... let the water dribble down.. you'll be amazed at how far the capillary action will pull the water back.. and it will definitely keep wood starter shingles wet for a long timeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Your climate dictates that proceedure. We don't have the ocean breezes and subsequent driven gales.
It stands to reason, that a flashing of any sort must be lapped to shed ...
I guess my point might be, that the DE ougtta be lapped by the I&W or the first layer of felt
( watch out, we'll get Piffin here anysecond now)
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Pif has been here all along, wondering how you spheres manage to run arouind in circles chasing your own tail. Not much of what you have said makes much sense. I think it is partly because there are two topics gouing on here and you are trying to debate both sides of both of them at once. The thread started out with whether the drip should go over or under the felt. my answer there was that I don't care one way or the other, as long as theunderlayment is shedding water past the fascia and not behind it.Now you guys have gone on to whether metal drip is even needed or not - period, seeming to come from your own statement that I consider full of bull. it doesn't matter what climate mike or I or you are living and roofing in. Water still runs down hill and capillary action wicks it back up again. Without a properly installed metal drip, the water will roll down the fascia instead of dripping off it. That is why it is called drip edge. Additionally, it supports composition shingles so they don't break down there.Out in the dry west, with cedar roofs, we did not use metal drip, but the overhang was 2", the fascia was redwood, and re-roofs invariably involved some rotted fascia replacement.metal drip edge is absoolutely necessary, IMOCarry on now, I'm back on the sidelines
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So, now try to explain rake edge to him. Good luck!
He's a rake and he knows it, LOL
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grinnin ear to ear.
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"drip edge - rake edge" ...so I'm not a seasoned roofer yet...
still, from the water damage to roofs that I have seen, it looks like some kind of metal strip, drip edge or rake edge, around all sides of the roof, installed in such a way to help keep water going down in front of the facia instead of over the top of it and on the osb or plywood is a good idea.
Obdyke sells it as "F4" IIRC. white , brown or mill finish.
Of late I have been installing either lead coated copper or copper.
Nuthin like getting a rise outta everybody.
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Thanks. I'll check it out.
This happened yesterday evening - and I swear I'm not making this up...
At the house I've been doing some interior remodeling on and a little bit of roof repair on the front side (which is what prompted my drip edge thread), I was cleaning of my drywall knives around the back of the house and getting ready to go home for the day, when I heard a something hit the ground just a few feet from where i was standing.
It was a peice of facia that no one had noticed as being a problem before. The back of it was rotted, and the wood up there that it used to be nailed to had completly rotted away.
No wind was blowing, nothing had been done to that side of the house, it was just it's time to go... oh yeah, there wasn't a drip edge up there.
thanks for all the answers on which way the drip cap should be installed...
I think what I will try on the next one would be to stick down a water shield across the bottom edge of the roof, set the drip edge in a thick coat of roofing caulk on top of the shield, then lay the underlayment (not caulked) on top of that. (Not caulking the underlayment would alow moisture from higher up to escape at the bottom).
As a handyman, I get plenty of calls to look at rot damaged facia boards, which usually means theres going to be alot more damage up there than meets the eye - rotted end rafters, plywood and such... Of all the ones I have looked at, none have had drip edges, nor water shield barriers.
I've seen problems on the sloped side of the roof also. There, I think a drip edge is even more important than on the bottom side of the roof. To me, it looks like water running down the side edge of the roof has no trouble rolling over the edge of the shingles on it's downward path and making the 1/4 inch journey to the top of the facia board and onto the roof sheathing.
On this part of the roof, my best guess would be the same as the bottom. set down a watershield, caulk the drip edge onto that, then cover with tarpaper.
It may be overkill, but I like the thought of the homeowner never having anything rot up there again (I'll still have plenty of fix elsewhere), and the roof deck looking new 20 -30 years later when it gets re-shingled.
Drip edge is ORNAMENTAL..it serves NO purpose.
It is useless.
bull sh!t.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
That picture is ornamental - it serves no purpose. But there were some other ornamental ones you posted that did serve very well
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I guess it depends on the region and local building practices.
In my area of florida, drip edge must go on top of the underlayment, then covered with roofing cement before the shingles go on. This is to prevent wind from getting under the shingles at the roof edges. For the same reason, we can't install shingles with an overhang over the dripedge, as that give the wind something to catch and peel the roof back.
bye bye thread..LOL
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U been smokin somethigngood today
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Nah, think it must me something carrying over from the 70s.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
your drip edge is too tight.
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here you might find a use for this along the way
Email me the deletes, I got in too late.
Twern't notnin' worthy of mention.
I deleted for the cause of proper etiquette and to combat silliness.
be silled
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.