How do you handle the potential for driveway damage when getting concrete, shingles, or other heavy materials delivered?
We have a had a general clause about driveway damage in our contracts before, but I just revised it and called a lot more attention to it.
Here’s what the new clause says:
“Contractor shall coordinate rooftop delivery of shingles. Delivery truck shall remain on the driveway only, and shall at no time drive on the grass. Contractor is not liable for any damage to existing driveway from shingles delivery truck. If Owner is aware of conditions that are likely to result in damage, those conditions should be brought to the attention of Contractor. Delivery from the street, with no roofing trucks over 10,000 lbs. on the driveway at any time, is available at an additional cost.”
I feel like this pushes all liability for anything on the customer, which I must admit is the goal. Still, I don’t want to come across as “hey, it’s not my problem” because people are hiring me to make the project “my problem” and not theirs.
On the other hand, I have no idea how good the driveway is, if there are soft spots, or vulnerable utilities close to the surface, or maybe the asphalt is 1.5″ thick at one point.
Those questions are what have caused us to beef up the verbiage. We have only had one problem with driveway damage, and that fortunately was able to be fixed for less than $500.
What do you do in this situation?
Replies
We did a garage a couple of years ago and had to add about 30 ft of driveway. All was well till the shingles came. I couldnt stop him in time and he backed over a flag.
It didnt crack right away, but it did. He was the only weight on the pad but I ended up paying for it.
If I ever do another job that requires concrete pours like that I will place a sign at the end of the driveway or block the new concrete so it cant be driven on.
On existing houses, I never allowed the delivery trucks on any existing driveways. I started this policy after a shingle delivery caused 2 ruts in an asphalt driveway. Around here the trucks now come equipped with fork trucks. If the co. making delivery complained, we unloaded the trucks, and stopped doing business with them!
What about handling it on a case by case basis? If the owner is concerned about possible damage to the driveway then they can pay for whatever it takes to avoid driving heavy trucks on it. There's too much you can't see.... whether or not the base is well compacted, whether or not the concrete or asphalt is thick enough, etc. My guess is that most people will accept the risk that the driveway will crack vs. paying more for labor to hand-carry materials or whatever else the work-arounds are. I would definitely transfer the risk or cost to the owner.
I think you're right about a case by case deal.That's exactly why I have that clause in there, I want to call attention to it so if the HO is concerned we can offer them an alternative solution and charge accordingly. Otherwise, when the problem happens and you never mentioned the chance of cracking or other damage, you look like a chump.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I have to admit I never thought about this before. I have never seen an adequately built driveway that has been damaged by deliveries. gotta think some more...
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Therein lies the rub.How do you determine if the driveway was adequately built? I'm no asphalt expert so maybe there are some cues that I haven't keyed upon.Concrete doesn't concern me as much, but gravel is the only one that I don't worry about.I think there is a good chance that a loaded concrete truck or a shingle delivery truck with a full load could be the biggest point load a driveway would have seen in the past 20 years. Even if a UPS truck pulls in the driveway I would bet the big trucks have at least twice the load on the contact patches.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
In Calif. the truckers were ahead of you, especially concrete. Required someone to sign a disclaimer before they crossed the curb. Guess they had good insurance men, or lawyers.John
Yeah, as the contractor receiving concrete you are agreeing that they are not responsible for damage just by signing their delivery ticket, BUT, that doesn't mean it's the owner's problem. I have seen concrete trucks break the curb by driving over it. I would want the owner to specify whether or not they want to take the risk.
We have mostly gravel driveways around here so I rarely worry about damage or oil drips. The last concrete driveway that I owned had a large void under it due to a failing clay drain tile, and a concrete truck on it would have meant major damage.
Here in Southern CA, we're on expansive adobe soil. Most driveways are concrete, and lots of them are already cracked. Mine is. The concrete mixer drivers simply refuse to leave the city's pavement and go onto your driveway. There's a whole lot of pumping of concrete done for that reason.
-- J.S.
>>>How do you determine if the driveway was adequately built? <<<Drive a delivery truck on it!!Duh..:).
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
just have a "testing fee" ...
"cost of replacement plus $1"
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I think your new language is fine, but wonder why you are limiting to shingle trucks. Why not keep it as a general clause to cover any heavy traffic that may show up on a job?
I did a job a few years ago where we had to get some 10-wheel dump trucks across a lawn (no utilities, just concerned with rutting). We laid down two layers of 3/4" plywood for about 100' to help spread out the weight. It actually worked and was well worth the cost of not having to fill, repair and seed tire ruts in the nice lawn.
harumph!Filling and seeding is easy compared to replacing automatic sprinkler system and wiring for low voltage only 3" down;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Around here it is difficult to avoid some weight on the driveway because that is the only place for a dumpster, and we know a dumpster has never lost weight on a jobsite. Always amazed me that the drivers don't show up with 4'X4' pieces of ply to put under the dumpster to prevent damage.
Sometimes the outright stupidity of the driver causes the damage. Having 30 yarder swapped out at a job. Driver shows up with the new box and drops it right next to the full box. Now he pulls forward and picks up the full box. At this point the full box is on the truck and the new box is on the ground, but it needs to be moved sideways about 10 feet. Now the driver maneuvers so he is reversing up to the long side of the new box, perpendicular to the box. He backs up until the truck contacts the empty box, then continues to back up, sliding the empty box across the driveway. Result: perfect position......and four beautiful ten foot gouges in the blacktop.
Just curious, but why would the responsibility of protecting the surface with plywood fall upon the dumpster company?
I know it is common sense, but the dumpster trucks I have seen don't have a spot to carry the plywood- short of putting it in the dumpster.
Sounds like the contractor that orders the dumpster should have wood on hand and bill the client accordingly (or, make them provide the plywood).
Any residential swapout I have seen involves several load and unload sequences- starting with the fresh dumpster being dropped nearby and the full one being moved. Then the full is dropped and the empty moved into position. Then the full is picked up and carted off.
I hope your dumpster company got billed for a new driveway- or the repairs.
Red,This specific job will only have shingles delivered on heavy trucks. The siding, windows, flooring, paint, and cabinets are not of a concern to me.If we were doing a full addition with dump trucks, concrete, etc. I would include them as well.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
jon
in my experience you are FAR more likely to run into customer issues with trucks leaving hydraulic oil on a driveway . i had a supplier that did me tremendous favors early on---and that i felt indebted to.----- unfortuneately they were notorious for leaving oil on customers driveways. as far as a crack---- I think exactly once in 20 some years has this come up as an issue---shingle truck /driveway with thin layer of concrete over culvert out by street.Years and years ago-- i used to get dumpsters from a guy---who refused to leave a dumpster anywhere besides right in the driveway---he would NOT back off the driveway and on to the yard----said when his weels go off the edge ofe the driveway--THAT's when it cracks( I guess he found that out the hard way.the 3 shingle suppliers i use--have ALL made me sign releases---putting the blame on ME if something happens-----it's not really been a problem.that said--- you are smart to bury something like this in the fine print of your contract---just in case( I don't)additionally my suppliers carry release forms on the truck---- If I had not previously signed the release----the HOMEOWER would have to be present and sign a release before the truck will back onto customers property. BTW----the boom trucks loading directly to the roof----have not been a problem with driveways etc.----but in the case of a ground drop---a different truck with a fork lift is sent instead---THOSE can be a problem as the driver will ba-ha that thing right out onto the customers lawn to drop a skid-----the ground drop truck driver is used to new construction sites---and really couldn't give a rats' #### about your customers lawn----THAT is what you need to look out for.stephen
Stephen,Would I be correct to assume that about 95% of your customer's driveways are concrete?I'm more concerned about asphalt, especially when the driveway is a few hundred feet long. Who knows what "sins" were covered up when the pavers were on site, only to be discovered by us.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
jon,
i don't know what the ratio is----it's probably 50/50 asphalt/concrete. one difference might be that they are almost ALL old driveways----1920's era houses--even the newer driveways are 1970'sso--- they all already have cracks in them!!!! sorry i can't be more helpfull--but it just hasn't been a problem for us.( BTW-- longest driveway i have encountered might have been this spring. probably close to 300 yards. roof was Certainteed trilaminates--about 46 square. truck stayed on the street--forklift ran the skids up the driveway----driveway was too winding to get the truck up the driveway.customer told me that when they moved in the moving truck stayed on the street---everything was off loaded and then loaded onto a smaller straight truck---driven up the driveway and then off loaded again. EVERYTHING.
this customer was a bit outside my usual service area( about a 30 minute drive each way)---- how I got the project was that their son is a contractor in Las Vegas--read a couple of my FHB articles---he knew his parents were thinking about a new roof-----called them up in Ohio and told them to contact me---this was summer of 2007------customers patiently waited untill this spring for me to do the project. Lifetime Trilaminates and copper valleys Best wishes, Stephen
Hazlett
One solution is to have driveways made from twice fired bricks.
I can drive great big massive telehandlers in early spring when the ground is soft & muddy. The dents in the drive way self heal a year later..
I'm talking about much higher tire loading than a mere cement truck. It leaves great big deep ruts on the driveway that heal in a year or so..
I know, you are looking at me like I'm crazy! Here's how it works.
During the freeze thaw cycle that make up the spring. Tall bricks exposed to the sun get warmed up quicker and sink deeper into the ground than shallow bricks shadded and left frozen. Spring rains come and eventually everything flattens back out..
It's really cool..
actually frenchy,
i have been toying with the idea of doing my own driveway in brick later this summer.I need to replace a crumbling concrete driveway---------a local utility owes me a new apron--after digging up the old one to repair a gas line--------the brick driveway would be only about 30x30---really about the size of a nice patio.
i know you must get snow up there---how does the brick handle plows/snow blowers?????
stephen
Hazlett,
If you use brick please use real twice fired clay brick and not that cement brick I see in so many driveways.. That cement brick isn't nearly as durable and capable of dealing with abuse as twice fired clay pavers are..
As for snow.. if you set your bricks flat and level on a solid base snow blowers etc. are no problems.. I could even use a blower or a plow on mine. I'd simply set mine pads up a little bit.
If you look the blade shouldn't actually touch the driveway but intead be about an 1/8th inch off riding on pads.. Not just on brick driveways but any driveway or street..
I didn't, I laid mine on a combination of good base and and bare heavy clay. I had 22 tandum truck loads of brick dumped in my driveway to deal with so I laid brick right on top of the ground or base. As it was it took me all summer of evenings and weekends to lay my bricks.
It would have been nice to have someone come in and level everything and put down a solid base but at the time I didn't have a pot to pizz in (or a window to throw it out of)..
If I hadn't gotten those bricks free I wouldn't have been able to get a brick driveway..
If i do it-- i will probably do it in recycled street pavers. my street used to be paved in brick---still is in fact, just asphalted over------ there is about a 6 block stretch with the brick still exposed the driveway will be reminiscent of that.
stephen
Hazlett.
That's exactly what I did my driveway with. Over 20,000 paving brick or 22 tandem dump trucks full.
I offered the trucking company a free place to drop the brick instead of paying to drop them off in a recycle yard.. Now that same recycle yard has those bricks for sale at $2.00 each!
Mine are stacked on edge since I had so many of them like they are on streets..
That way they stand up to heavy trucks rolling over them.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08162/888755-294.stm?cmpid=oneill.xml
asphalt to bricks story.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
It's cool.
Just doubt anyone wants to wait a year for the 'healing' to occur.
Besides how many outside your silk stocking area have drive ways like that?
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
intrepidcat
Driveways made from those cement bricks several.. but few with real twice fired paving brick. They sell for $2.00 each in the recycle yards. I paid two cases of beer for all 20,000+ of them I got.. (then my neighbor gave me my money back if I would have them dump 5 trucks full in his yard).. So they were free!
Nowdays every time the city tears up a street downtown hundreds of ambitous homeowners load up everything they can and whatever bricks are torn up are gone inside of an hours of when they stop work!
I knew you'd have an angle.
<G>
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
intrrepidcat
Please remember I live in an expensive area but that doesn't mean I have a lot of money.. I'm cheap and my wife is cheaper!
just funnin' ya, frenchy....
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
"that said--- you are smart to bury something like this in the fine print of your contract---just in case( I don't)"BURYING it might not protect you very much if it has to go to court.You wrote the contract so you know exactly what is in it.You have signed a release for the distributure so that you know that there is a risk.You have had maybe 2000 such deliveries over the years.Many of the clients might have had none or only 1 in their lifetime..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I just did a roof where the HO had nice patterned concrete.
I had the bigger boom truck deliver with a long reach.
It was 35 feet from the road to the house, They did have to use more pallets so with the longer reach it was not to heavy.
I took one look at that nice concrete and there was no way i was risking it.
4 years ago i was doing a roof and the general had a concrete truck come and it broke the driveway, He bought them a new one
Same thing happened to me. What was the worst part? The customer held up my payment until the new drive4way was finished!