Ok, so I’ve heard from my elders that if you hit a nail more than two times, you’re playing with it. I’ve seen posts where folks mention that they used to use 30+ ounce hammers and could drive an 8p nail in 2 hits. I’ve been building a few stud walls on the floor this week and not wanting to drag out the air compressor and nail gun, I’ve been doing it by hand. With a 21 oz California hammer, the best I’ve done is 9 strikes. I even got out the 2 pound engineers hammer for kicks and it only reduced it to 8 strikes. I’m using 8d bright common 2.5 inch nails. I’m not doubting that it can be done in two strikes, but I’m curious if anyone has a link to a video showing it.
I don’t do this for a living, so I concede that someone who does it every day should be much better than me, but at best I can envision maybe 4 strikes (including the first to set it).
Again, I’m not doubting, I just want to see it.
Replies
byrd
8's are not meant for framing walls. They are for sheeting. You might get away with them when toenailing the stud to plate.
9 whacks on an 8 is playing with it. Your technique must not be quite right. Think singles hitter v. a thin small guy that can put it over the fence 20 times a yr. How does he do it? Swing technique.
It's possible for the hammer to be too heavy for your muscles, such that you can't achieve high enough velocity. In fact, some of the fancier framing hammers are lighter -- the highly-touted titanium Stiletto is 15 oz.
And working on a stud wall on the floor may be a less than ideal situation, since the wall will tend to move every time you strike a nail.
(Not that I've ever sunk a nail in less than maybe 6 shots, and I'd be lucky to do it in 12 now with my "improved" shoulder. Hence I use screws.)
Watch the framing videos that are on the homepage. They nail with very very few strikes. I don't know that the ones saying two strikes are counting a setting tap as a swing. You'll see the man in the door framing video set a nail and then drive it in two swings.
# 8s? You betcha 2 strokes. Or more like 3 strokes. One to set the nail, one to drive it and one to sink it below the surface. 16 penny nails got 4 strokes. But, now I do it with one pull of the trigger! I'm too old and my elbows are too shot from a million 4 stroke nails.
I don'r generally hammer
I don't generally hammer things in if I can avaoid it... that said - even I can sink a 16 in 2 whacks. I actually practivced it until I could do it. Sure, 10% to 20% are sent flying and embed themselves in something else because I hit them worng :)! Always wear eye protection when going to tawn like that!
Sinking the nail is all about technique. I've been teaching my kids how to drive tent stakes with the back of narrow hatchet. Since it has such a small face, the tendancy is to short stroke it and try to tap it in. I've been showing them that each hit tranfers more enegry if they simply bring the hatchet uphigher. Your body learns how to connect the hammer face to the nail head, you just need to help it by giving the blow the longest stroke possible.
That being said - driving a tent stake in the ground or a nail on a bench is one thing... driving it at an angle - in a hanger - on a ladder - between two joists.... well, good luck with that. Thats where the years of experience kick in. While I can do a two swat sink, I can't do it while leaning over a board, up on a ladder, next to another board, or any other permutation. I might if it was my job and I did it sunrise to sunset every day.
I toescrew studs, BTW. I take a 1/2" spade drill, and put the point about 1.25" above the end. I start spinning the drill and sink the tip about 1/4" - just enough to grab the wood - then I tip the drill to the stud and bore sideways with the spade, using the tip as a pivot point. This creates a pocket with a starter hole. Now you can drive a washer head screw in. It seats nicely and won't split the wood. If you use a regular screw, don't sink the head in otherwise it will wedge the end grain apart.
If the wood is old and dry, make sure and predrill it.
You are on a noble quest, but frankly the days of driving framing spikes by hand is long gone.
I've read about, but never seen, that the honorable Larrry Haun (who used to hang out here) was able to sink a 16p spike "with two licks" as he used to say. Think 30 years ago.
Carpenters back then had WAY more hammer skills than us now. Today a hammer is a tool of convenience, constraint, and choice. Back then, there was no choice, so an entire culture developed about it's use.
Then there was the guy who was driving nails while juggling hammers. Didn't do it in two whacks, but it was pretty impressive, especially with nails overhead, etc.
Haha... good one. I remember that clip.
>>> I watched the videos and
>>> I watched the videos and yeah, Larry can drive it home. It is technique, he raises that hammer way higher than I would ever think of (due to mi[JOBSITE WORD]ting it).
Hahaha....yup. I cringe whenever I watch him do that. The guy is a machine.
I had an uncle who said he could drive a 16d thru a 2 x 4 in one hit--one--no setting tap included.
And he did.
He took a nail and set it on its head on the concrete curb, and took a 3' length of 2 x 4 and smacked it down on the tip of the nail.
Sure enough, the nail went thru.
Crazy Uncles put the fun in dsyFUNctional!
Yeah--he's the one who said he could get the cork out of an empty wine bottle after having you push the cork down inside.
And he could--cork and bottle both intact at the end.
I lost that bet one tiime, maybe 40 years ago. A friends father said he could sink a 16penny with one blow after setting. Well, he took a 2x scrap and set the nail and then picked up the scrap, turned it over and pounded it against a sawhorse. I think I lost out on coffee but used that trick for many years and am ahead by now I'm sure.
The guys who could set 16d nails with a blow or two were likely framing on the floor, meaning they were putting walls together on the deck and then standing them up. The old "California Framing Hammers" could develop some serious momentum when driving nails through a plate into a stud. If you were good there was a motion that you hardly felt in your elbow, it was all about letting the hammer do the work.
Funny how when you put mis hit into one word, the forum program thinks you're cursing (it bleeped me out).
Sounds like the Kevin Costner film where he made a bet for the longest golf hit. He let the other guy go first, then he tapped his down the road and let it roll.
I did notice that Larry usually took two taps to make sure the nail was set before winding up, probably from experience of flying nails. His elbows and wrist probably didn't take too much beating because he was swinging his entire arm from the shoulder. And yes, working on the deck is the way to go, swinging like that above your head must be a whole different story.
My hammer has the notch and magnet in the head to use when setting the nail. I've tried it a few times and you can set the nail quite deep on the first blow. If you used that for the first strike, you just might drive it home on swing 2...
I know this will sound un true, but i have set 16D framing nails with 1 or 2 hits, (And im by no means a professional, just a kid that got a hammer for his BDay) 19OZ Estwing framing hammer, https://www.estwing.com/collections/nail-hammers/products/ultra-series-blue i have never seen a hammer (Other than a sledge hammer) that his as hard as this one
It takes a good hammer, a good arm and lots of experience, but given those, one to set and two to drive it home is no problem. Remember, when you're building stud walls, the last couple of inches are into end grain.
A long time ago, just introduced to framing and taught one of many things to know.....job safety is paramount. And simple things make a difference. We’d best be careful both for ourself and those around us.
Set and drive in two? Better have a good aim.
i like my estwing because it has a magnetic nail holder, so the first hit can sink a nail till the face of the hammer hits the wood (About half of the nail) then the second hit sinks it flush (IF you hit the nail, and IF you get the nail where you want it with the first swing)
Good points.
My advice to newbies is always "First form, then precision, then power." Form means things like making a point of positioning your body for comfort & precision and just using your wrist for fine-tuning your aim. Precision means hitting the nail squarely, centered on the face of the hammer, with your swing aligned with the nail. Then you can use power effectively.
yep, and let gravity work for you if you can
I could do it once. Back in the day the go to tool was a P.lumb framing axe. 28 oz. When I was just beginning I asked about cutting wood with the axe side. The framer I was working with explained that the axe was not for wood but for nails. With a sharp axe you could knock a bent nail out with one swing or cut it off. Switched to a 28 oz hammer then when nail guns became the norm to a 20 oz hammer. I've got a matching set one smooth and one waffle. I hate steel handles. Too much shock to the elbow.
the shock may be more from the composition of the rubber on the handle, my Estwing has almost zero shock to the hand, and ive seen the black edition has better rubber than the blue supposedly (Mine is blue and its great)
I had a blue Estwing for a while- they said I was cheating when I brought it to a Habitat for Humanity nail-driving contest. But I use a titanium Stiletto now- it's great for nails and my elbow, but it doesn't adjust bottom plate locations as well as the Estwing did- something about momentum vs. kinetic energy.
i might have to make a test rig at some point, so i can test nail driving force between a light fast hammer and a heavy slow hammer.
Nine hits? You're pounding with your wrist. Swing with your arm and shoulder. It takes practice, but you'll know you're getting the hang of it when you think more about the nail than your hammer.
Like others have said, check out Larry Haun on Youtube - that old boy slapped nails DOWN and he did it smooth and easy.
I started in the early 1970s shoveling concrete for a commercial contractor. Everybody had a big Estwing, so I got one. Then I noticed the best carpenter on the crew had a little hammer with a wood handle and he could swat a nail flat with a flick of his arm.
I got a Plumb 13 ounce and still use it today.
I surely can’t do it in 2, but I can assure you heavier isn’t necessarily better. From physics, F=1/2*m*v^2 meaning the force increases 1:1 with more mass, but increases exponentially with more velocity. Swing faster not harder? Seems legit.