I’ve always used 4 x 8 drywall on walls because I generally work alone and it’s easier to handle.
I know that most people like 4 x 12 because it minimizes taping… but how do you deal with the tapered edge at the floor?
I can’t see how your baseboard will lay flat without filling the taper with mud and that ends up actually increasing the number of joints that need finishing….
What am I missing?
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Replies
I am confused why would a 4X12 sheet cause a tapered end at floor level or be any different than a 4X8 sheet. You use a 4x10 if the wall is between 8' and 10' long and 4X12 sheet if the wall is between 10' and 12' long and a 4x16 if the wall is between 12' and 16' long , not sure what you use if the wall is longer that 16'
A 4 x 8 sheet hung vertically has tapered joints on the sides... but the ceiling and floor would be butt joints
i understand that but are we talking 8' high walls which you hang vetically using 4x8 sheets and if you went with 4x12 you would hang horzitonal?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about... I can see the benefit of having the taped seam around the middle of the room but it seem like more work to address the tapered edge at the floor level.
cduchon,
I usually hang and tape all of my own drwyall and I know what you are talking about. But...quite honestly, its not that big of a deal. One quick pass with some mud over that tapered edge by the floor and you are done. Usually one coat of mud will level off the taper enough for the base.
You don't need any tape and if you do it smoothly, you won't even need to sand it as the top of the base will end up slightly above the highest edge of the taper as long as you don't hang the board more than about 1/2" off the floor.
Mike
Thanks Mike. Thank makes sense.
Chuck
It should be hung horizontally regardless. Easier to tape that way, stronger, and it takes about ten minutes to run a DW knife around the base if you feel you need to fill it to plane. We use all larger baseboards that it doesn't effect tho.
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Thats a great question. Oak Rive Mike already offered the easiest solution.
I think most people just ignore the fact but it's always been a bother to me too.
Incidently, we don't stop at 12'ers. We order 16's, 14' 12' and 10's where needed. The idea is to eliminate as many butt joints as possible.
One other solution would be to split one board in half which I have considered doing. It would add another horizontal joint, but it also would eliminate the tapered seam at the ceiling, which causes a slight problem when putting the corner tape on. The slight problem is: the corner tape doesn't bed as easily on tapers as it does on regular corners.
I think Mikes solution is much easier and therefore better. Actually, the bottom wouldn't need a continuous mud coating. A guy could bend over and put a few 6" splotches of mud, every 3' or so and that would hold the bottom of the baseboard out to the proper plane.
Thanks for the discussion and thanks Mike: on my next one, I'm going to add the mud at all corners and a few spots in between!
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
If you can order all those lengths you should be able to order the 54" wide stuff. That is what I used on my last job. Ripped the taper off one side of each board. It was a commercial, mostly partitions. I used the plastic j-mold to edge all of it. There was no base or crown type moldings.
Smaller rooms I tend to hang 4x8's vert. Almost all of my jobs are too small to get a real drywaller to come in.
Isn't 54" available everywhere? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would think so. I was just pointing out that if you were thinking outside the Big Box and getting lengths that were most efficient, thenI would use the wider boards rather than running another line ( or two) of mud. My yard and Lowes/HD usually do not stock anything other than 4x8 and 4x12. The real DW suppliers are about 30-45 miles away and delivery kind of eats you up for 10 boards or so.
Ahaaaaa! Good point! I like that thinking outside of the box thingy.I will look carefully at this option the next time I do a drywall takeoff and scrutinize for strategic advantages. Thanks for the idea! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Meant to mention that you only need one 54" per wall, If you cut 2 1/2 off the 48 and the 54 you still have 97" It should move wiring boxes out of the seam too.
Never a problem on the tapered edge for the base molding..your the first one who brought this up ..let's see I've been a drywaller since 1986.
I've always noticed and thought about it when basing. Back in the 80's the "budget" homes always used a very small base. I think the top barely got past the taper even when held up for carpet. If the trim carpenter nailed the bottom of the base, it would tip "in" on the bottom. So, twenty years of hanging drywall really wouldn't tell you that there was an issue. One installation of base and you might understand the "problem". Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The lower drywall board is always cut short by 1/2".
The tapered edge is 2" wide.
That leaves 1-1/2" inches for the base on the tapered edge.
The base molding should also be up by 1/2".
That leaves a very slight tapered edge of 1".
Adequate for the 2-3/4" base molding.Have done base molding and never gave it a 2nd thought.
"The lower drywall board is always cut short by 1/2".
That's because your pre-cut studs are too short. Here our pre-cuts are 92 1/2". That gives you an 8'-1" ceiling. No cutting the drywall and still have 1/2" gap.
Can't say I've ever worried about the taper. But then maybe I'm just not that fine a homebuilder.
Ditto on the 92 5/8" studs. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
In regard to the baseboard issue, when I'm trimming and use 2-1/2" baseboard, I'll cut blocks that measure 1/2" x 1/2" and cut them a couple inches long. I mark the sub-floor for studs and I place them where ever there is a stud because that's where I nail. I also use 3/8" plywood (5/16" thick) to keep the baseboard off the floor. This only works with baseboard that isn't rabbeted.
When I install 5-1/2" baseboard, I don't nail low so that the bottom doesn't 'roll' in. Although it seems like the carpet installers push the bottoms in and I'm back there to fix it.
I don't know what your little blocks do but....if I was getting service calls, I'd probably screw drywall screws and leave the heads out to keep the base from getting pushed in. I'd put the screws every 3' or so and at each corner. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
My little blocks are doing the same thing that your drywall screws are. I just find the blocks quicker and easier to use. When the saw is set up I cut a whole lot of blocks, enough for 3-4 houses. I forgot to mention that my blocks go against the framing. They touch the bottom 3/16 of the baseboard. I figure that a little work now saves a whole lot of time later on. The funny thing to me was when I was trimming a house, my boss saw me using the blocks and told me not to use them because it was a waste of time. Well, the rooms that I didn't use them in were the rooms I was back in after carpet was installed. I hope my explanation helps clear up how my blocks are used.
I'm guessing that you don't hold your base up 3/8" as I do. I don't see how cutting and nailing little parts are faster than screwing screws. I must be misunderstanding something. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Not every drywall job has the same length of studs. Still the tapered edge is so minimal as not to cause any noticeability on the base molding..still astonished that this was brought up.
"..still astonished that this was brought up. "Curious minds create curious topics. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
i am still trying to figure this out......... hanging a celing you are gonna have tapered end meeting the wall board be it another tapered end or a butt end, correct. By way if you are that worried about it buy some 54" wides.
As far as working alone I have hung some 10 to 12' long sheets by myself, i cheat with a 2x4 temp fastened to the wall
Dan
your "split a piece" idea is what I like to do in kitchens.
2' piece on bottom ... 4'er ... and the other 2' piece on top.
on a wall of cabinets makes for way less taping to worry about making nice.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That's a keeper of a tip! That tip will be written into the next drywall subcontract terms! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"still astonished that this was brought up."
I do alot of trim and it bugs me each time.
I bring it up plenty ... to myself ... when I'm running base.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yeah, it bugs me too, when using a low profile base. The mud idea works, except the mudders don't do it. And I don't like the idea of breaking out mud by the time I'm putting base down.It's mostly an issue in inside corners. I use the screw trick, but it's still irritating. Dang tapers. We carpenters spend all this time trying to make things square, and by the time they tape the outside corners, the miters on the base have to be overcut.
I get tired of seeing every corner bead protruding beyond the plane of the wall which creates >90 degree corners and a bend in the base. What tips do we have for that flaw? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Cut the miter at 46 degrees or whatever it takes. Gotta have a saw that's up to the task. I've gone so far as to shim up the base on the saw table when I didn't have a saw that tilted past 45 degrees.
I understand how to get the joints to fit. I don't like at the obtuse or acute angles. I prefer to look down and see a perfect 90 with the same reveal on the tops of the casings. It aint gonna happen though unless I do every bead unless some pro drywaller has a trick. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
How could your corners possibly be 90° if the wall is framed at 90°?They call it corner "bead" because of the integral bead that creates a ridge to float the mud out to. If that bead wasn't there, your mud build up would probably be worse and less durable.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
For what it's worth, the paper-faced corner beads strike me as being less of a problem. I'm not sure what they use in your region, but a lot of guys use the nail-on beads here, but there seems to be less mud build-up with the paper beads. The little swoop bugs me, too, especially for a short return (like a few inches), which either leaves the baseboard crooked or seriously out-of-parallel with respect to the wall. This doesn't necessarily follow, but one thing I saw recently was a product meant to be used with bull-nose corner bead. It's a little 90* plastic bead, maybe 6" tall, the logic being that you can put it down near the floor and do normal 90* miters with your baseboard while having rounded bead on the rest of the corner. IMO, it's way slicker than the double 22.5* approach for bull-nose bead, which just doesn't look right to me, let alone the extra labor. The little doo-hickeys take paint and look very natural.
Right. The way a metal bead is made, it pretty much guarantees an out of square corner.I spent a few years out west and everyone was using tape on corners, saying they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I come back to the midwest and I try to convince my taper friends and they just shrug and keep on using metal. Those regional differences are interesting. Sometimes they might be driven by local conditions--climate, hurricanes, etc, but a lot of times it is just stubbornness.
It is stubborness. Almost all of us in the trades suffer from it or we'd never survive our first week. I'm going to give the paper bead a try to see if I prefer the results. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You will like the results. Our taper only uses paper corners. He said that he used to use tape over the all metal corner beads if he wanted a top notch job and the paper corners do this for him. Faster and a better corner.
It won't eliminate the flare problem though.
Edited 4/27/2008 8:33 pm ET by Schelling
Oops. My only problem is with the flare. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for the tip.One of the benefits of the bullnosed corners is that they disguise the out of square corners much better. I'm going to look for the transition piece that you are talking about. I haven't seen them yet. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
That base molding on the bottom edge is insignificant..tell me Jeff..when you look at the casing around windows and doors where the drywall butt joint was over the window or door..how do you feel?That's the one that used to bug me the most!
doesn't matter at all.
it's either taped, mudded and sanded by the time I get there ...
or I'm the one that did it and I'm the one that has to handle it.
either way ... by the time I'm trimming ...
I'm trimming.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
So if the base molding that may be slightly askew bothers you, the curvature of the drywall butt joint above a window or door that is signicant does not bother you?Should not the casing above the window or door be straight (with drywall a butt joint underneath it)?
It isn't the base being askew that bothers me, it's the inside corners. Whether it's a cope or a miter, it's pretty hard to make it look and stay looking tight without a shim or a screw or something.
I screw the two pieces of base on an inside corner together from the back side and install as a unit to keep the corners tight.Steve
"the curvature of the drywall butt joint above a window or door that is signicant does not bother you?"
nope.
if it bows too much a smack with the hammer flattens it out real quick like.
but dealing with base that gets sucked in at the last possible second and f's up a perfect cope and/or miter will piss me off each and every time.
plus ... I'm not overly concerned how the trim lays on top of and underneath windows. Most of my customers ain't 7 ft 6in tall or 1 ft 6in short.
no one but the cleaning lady is looking up there!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
just use 4' 6" wide boards on the bottom ..