Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 29, 2000 06:13am | #1

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   Lawrence, you don't have to shout. You've asked this question 4 times already and received answers recommending a light texture or skim coat and a hint to adjust your lighting angles. Do try to click on your posts when they show new messages and you won't have to repeat yourself so often.

2. 
   lawrence_pelofsky | Apr 30, 2000 03:29am | #2

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   Thanks for your answer Mr. Wicklund even if it was rude. I'm a homeowner getting a lot of fancy talk without results to match. Now will you enlighten (no pun intended) me as to how I am to adjust my light angles when it is natural light! A textured ceiling is not appropriate in the style house we have built. A skim coat sounds great but the idea is to eliminate the ridges that cast shadows. What do you really mean by a skim coat?

1. 
   Dan_M. | Apr 30, 2000 04:28am | #3

   *Lawrence,As Mr. Wicklund so wisely suggested, check your prior post, which contains some great solutions. What do you want, one of these guys to appear at your door step and fix your problems?! Make a decision and run with it.Dan

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 04:35am | #4

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   I think Ralph was rather polite, and i'm impressed he kept count. To make it
   even easier:

   < Obsolete Link > Chris R "drywall ceiling" 4/24/00
   7:32pm

   < Obsolete Link > calvin "sheetrock ceiling" 4/23/00
   4:44am

   < Obsolete Link > Dan M. 4/29/00 7:28pm

   Now, about rudeness.... The advice is free, but it's not obligatory.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 05:51am | #5

   *Mr. Pelofsky,I apologize if you thought my response was rude, it's quite difficult to convey tongue-in-cheek, levity or irony in a brief factual answer. You did post 4 times, asking substantially the same question: "How do I hide butt joints and seams?" and you did receive adequate answers to your question from 1) Calvin, 2) Mad Dog, 3) Mike Smith and 4) Chris R. The responses ranged from - Do a better finishing job, to feathering, to light control, to skim coat. Unless you inform us otherwise we can only guess at what you really want and your real skill level.Did you mention the low angle light was from natural light? No. Did you reply, except to me, that texture was not appropriate for the house style? No. Did you mention that you were just a homeowner who didn't have a clue about the terminology, ie. Skim Coat? No. I suppose that's what you really mean when you say you are "getting a lot of fancy talk without results to match."If you need your hand held, say so, and those who respond will be happy to try. If you are reading and posting to this forum you have read the words, "Check the Archives", more than once. Your questions have been answered before, for others. If you read Fine Homebuilding and have access to past issues there are several articles about hanging and finishing drywall that address your dilemma. Check #99, Jan 1996, Tips and Techniques, "Invisible Drywall Butt Joints", page 22.Short of taking down the drywall to employ the technique described in the article, you really have only 4 choices. 1) Live with it. 2) Light texture, 3) Skim Coat, 4) Add compound to either side of the butt joint, maybe as much as a couple of feet, to soften the effect of the ridge made by the tape, bedding compound and the finishing. A lot of people call that feathering. Since 1) and 2) are out, and skim coat may be beyond your skill level (you could hire a professional), then step 4) is it. Because you started in the hole, so to speak, during the drywall installation, all you will be able to do by yourself is soften the ridge effect.Addressing the tapered factory edge, which I believe you are calling the seams. When you can see them it is usually the result of insufficient fill and not wide enough feathering or an over application of sanding, or, too much bedding compound which could raise the tape too high, like a butt joint. And, all sorts of problems occur if you don't have the right drywall tools (knives) or don't know how to use them.And your last question. A skim coat is a complete application of compound to the entire surface. In the hands of a competent plasterer all imperfections such as those nasty ridges are made to disappear.And, your natural light can be redirected or softened with the right window treatments, the light absorbing properties of the paint or other wall coverings you select. But, someone else will have to pop up with that info.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 06:51am | #6

   *That Lawrence seems to think that the world owes him a perfect ceiling. How about 1x strips and then staple up that old acoustic tile?

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 07:05am | #7

   *lawrence... yur the rude one....what yur doin is the equivelent of walking into a room,, stopping the conversation... asking a question and then not waiting for the response..instead you walk into the next room,, and restate your question.. and then move on..to the next room.. where you repeat your question.. and then move on again.. instead of carrying on a dialogue with the people in the first room..in short .. you're a jerk...and what house is not appropriate for a texture..you just don't have a clue as to the different textures that are available out there..gimme a break..b but hey , whadda i know?

4. 
   lawrence_pelofsky | Apr 30, 2000 07:10am | #8

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   I thought this was a serious forum and some of the answers which I did not see until this evening, though I had checked daily, provided serious answers. The reason that I posted these questions here is that we have consulted professionals and have received several different answers. Professionals have performed the work throughout. You may think that to ask what you mean by the word skim is flippant but you tell me which of the many paints that are labeled "flat" is "flat"! One thing we know is that PPG's ceiling paint PG's as flat as that produced by Benjamin Moore. We have doneMMore.f research on this matter, know that this is not an easy problem to solve and were looking for that hard to find "craftsman" who just might know the answer or help resolve the conflicting analyses provided by contractors.

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 07:38am | #9

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   Mike, what are we both doing up this late, is it your birthday or something,it ain't mine either.Vince

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 07:46am | #10

   *got caught up in SNL.... yur right Vince...didn't even notice the time,..hey , now that's a cutie, our's will be 21 next month..nite Vince.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 08:08am | #11

   *Lawrence,Please do not take this the wrong way, I am only trying to help.Could it be that you are actually wanting/requesting a finished ceiling surface that is in all actuality impossible to obtain? If what you are seeking is a perfectly flat, perfectly smooth surface with no irregularities and no imperfections, then it cannot be done. Period. I don't care how good a drywall finsiher is, or thinks he is, perfection is not gonna happen with drywall/drywall finsihing. If true perfection is what you desire/require then you need to change building materials for the finished ceiling.Drywall is a building product that is very forgiving. It is installed on wood (in most cases) and this wood has a tendency to move as it expands and contracts, warp a little, twist a little, and bow up or down. Add a flexible material like drywall on top of this, and what you get is a material that will show bumps, ridges, shadows, and imperfections. Add the fact that the finishing technique for covering seams is done by hand, and you start to get the picture. It will not be perfectly flat, and perfectly smooth. It can't be. But it can sure be made to look very elegant, and very nice. Texture, (whether it is a simple spray on, stomp and drag, swirl pattern, or any one of a myriad of finishing techniques used out there) is used to hide some of these irregularities, and does a fine job of it. Some of the most basic home designs, as well as some of the most magnificent mansions ever built have a textured ceiling, so it can be done in a way that will match the home's design and decor. You have received some great ideas and tips from these guys on how to deal with your problem. One I would like to add is to quit using that cheap ceiling paint. Buy yourself a high quality flat wall paint when you paint the ceiling next time. Ceiling paint is cheap in quality, and cheap in price.Just a thought...James DuHamel

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 08:31am | #12

   *Does SNL seem like it is finally starting to get funny again? I watched a small bit of it the last two weeks, and found myself rolling on the floor. The sketch about the "Taxi Cab Confessions" a few weeks ago, and the sketch about the Yoga classes and the guy spending three years to obtain his goal was a hoot!It may actually be getting better, or I'm just getting old.I really like the old stuff with Gilda, Chevy, John, Dan, etc... some funny stuff back then.Just a thought...James DuHamel

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 08:33am | #13

   *YEAH !! What James said !!I will add this... If you are lucky enough to somehow get your perfect cieling done in drywall, you can be guaranteed it will not stay that way. The wood behind the drywall, and even the drywall itself will continue to change with time and the seasons. You can't bully, harrass, insult and harangue mother nature into doing what you want.

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 07:35pm | #14

   *Actually, I am working on the perfect ceiling. Yesterday, I finally tried that trick for drywall butt joints I read about in FHB 2 or 3 years ago. Where you have your joint between joists, rather than on one, and make up that little plywood assembly to bend the butt ends up to.After two joints I had my technique perfected and I can't believe I haven't been doing this all along.

6. 
   AB | May 01, 2000 05:47pm | #15

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   slow, expensive and not very good

   Drywall finishing is more of an art than a science. The result of a good finishing job is an illusion. Proper fastening, feathering the joints really wide, skim-coating and checking your work by holding a very bright light close to the work (so it shines parallel to the work) can result in a pleasing wall or ceiling.
   To achieve this near perfect illusion is a LOT of work. (Ask me how I know) In addition, this near perfect work is rarely called for, rarely appreciated, rarely afforded and it still doesn't look as good as plaster. Also, it is not permanent as the above posts have mentioned.
   Finally, sheet rock is the quick and cheap wall and ceiling solution. It is afford able and easy to install, but it is not a premium treatment.

7. 
   Guest_ | May 01, 2000 06:12pm | #16

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   Agreed. Don't forget the isolated inbetweens of Eddie Murphy,
   Joe Piscopo, Mike Myers, Dana Carvey(!)...

1. 
   Guest_ | May 01, 2000 06:55pm | #17

   *I liked the early SNL alot, but I think it was funniest in the early 90's with Chris Farley, Mike Myers, Dana Carvey, Jon Lovitz, Adam Sandler, David Spade, Dennis Miller, Chris Rock and the late great (I got chunks of guys like you in my stool!) Phil Hartman. What a cast!jim

1. 
   Guest_ | May 02, 2000 06:22am | #18

   *Yo AB: I'm slow, expensive and pretty damn good. Were you addressing me , or just all of us generally. I am about the best drywall finisher I've ever met---- if you don't take speed into account. You ought to try looking for a sober plasterer in pissant Arkansas.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 03, 2000 05:42pm | #19

   *Is anyone using any special treatment for butt joints? I was concerned about the build over butt joints being visible on a ceiling once and beveled the ends slightly at 45 degrees, filling the resulting triangle flush with sheetrock brand patching plaster and then finishing normally. It seemed to work pretty well and seemed to lock the sheets together tightly along their full length.A bit labor intensive though, but no cracks and no visible joint treatment even in the lighting situations mentioned.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 04, 2000 02:29am | #20

   *Check post #7 above.

8. 
   lawrence_pelofsky | May 06, 2000 02:11pm | #21

   *
   RIDGE JOINTS APPEAR AT SEAMS AND BUTT JOINTS UNDER LOW ANGLE LIGHT. WILL FEATHERING OUT AND SKIM COATING BETWEEN SEAMS AND JOINTS WORK AS A SOLUTION.

9. 
   KBZ_ENTERPRISES | May 06, 2000 02:11pm | #22

   *
   LAWRENCE,
   It seems to me that your looking for the perfect ceiling and you will not be able to get it with drywall and spackel, no matter how may guys say they are the best,( but slow ) you are looking for a custom plaster job,that will require lots of time (and money) I dot know the size of the room but If possible you should have installed long sheets of dry wall where possible to eliminate but joints,You can also install a vener plaster over the new drywall,this is alittle more money than tape and spackel.. But if the drywall was installed properly this will be about 80% better than tape and mud.