Hello – I’m going to drywall the ceiling in my basement. This project has taken longer than I anticipated but I’m about to get around to this part. I have a couple of questions though and I’m hoping someone will be able to provide assistance.
The basement is approximately 26 feet long and 11.5 feet wide (the area to be drywalled). I’m trying to determine where the low and high points are on the joists before drywalling but am having some difficulty. The house was built in 1950 and there is some obvious sagging in some of the joists, but of course comparing the low points in those joists to other joists 3 or 4 bays down is the hard part for me. I’ve tried stretching string the length of the room but it is simply too long a length in order to keep the string nice and tight and tell where the high/low points are. I have a 4 foot level but that isn’t long enough for this. I could get a laser level (Lowes sells a bosch one for about $100 if that would be helpful) but I’m not exactly sure how I would use it for this purpose and perhaps there is an easier way.
I’ve done reading and have ideas on what to do once I determine the above. I’ll either use 1×2 strapping and shim, or use the metal stud approach along the length of the stud. If the ceiling is not too bad from flatness, I think I would prefer the metal stud approach since my ceiling is a little low to begin with and I want to save as much height as I can.
So, my 2 questions are:
1. How would you suggest to figure out the high/low points in the joists in a room 26 feet long?, and;
2. With the width of the room being less than 12 feet, would you suggest using 12 foot long drywall and going perpendicular to the joists (thereby having less butt joints), or still going parallel to the joists?
Thanks!
Paul
Replies
Laser
You can't beat a laser for layout. Set the laser, then use it to set your firring. Simply attach the firring to the sides of the joists. Start far away, and work towards the laser. Check places like RSC and United for rentals.
Drywall is made to be stiffest in the long direction. Therefore, it's best to attach the material in the same direction as the joists.
Long sheets? Just how do you plan to get them down the stairs and into the basement?
Thank you Laser for your quick response. However unfortunately i do not understand parts of it.
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post, but the joists run along the width of the room, so if I attach the 12 foot drywall parallel to the joists they would be along the width (11.5 feet) of the room. You indicate that it's best to attach drywall in the same direction of the joists, but I've read that it's best to have it perpendicular to the joists. However, my question arises since it's also best to limit the number of butt joints, which if I ran the drywall parallel to the joists with a 12 foot sheet, I would be doing (only one sheet needed per width of the room). BTW, i have a side door that leads right into the basement so the long sheets would not be a problem.
You mention the furring being attached to the side of the joists, but I would attach the furring to the underside of the joists in a perpendicular direction to the joists. Is that not correct for furring? I have read about 2x4's and steel studs attached to the bottom of the joists in a parallel direction to level them off, but with furring i would do it perpendicular to the joists.
sorry if i misunderstood your post. i am new to a lot of this!
Paul
It's easier to attach the furring to the sides of the joists because you dont have to shim all the time to get it level. But if you furr perpendicular to the joists it's probably better because you can get a wider surface to screw the drywall to (3 1/2"), and there is nothing in the way like joist bracing, wiring, pipes and ducts etc., but be prepared to shim constantly for level.
Harbor Freight has lasers for $4.99.
ebay has some lasers from china direct for $1.89, but you have to attach a battery to loose wires.
Be a bit careful with all lasers, and especially the cheap ones, which are less likely to have safeguards in place to reduce the risk of eye damage.
Mark and Laser:
Are you referring to something like this, except using wood instead of steel studs?
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/leveling-an-old-ceiling.aspx
I've read this previously and realize how to get the studs attached at one end of the ceiling (the far end of the picture) so that area would be level, but am not sure how to use the laser level when you are in the middle of the ceiling (ie away from the far wall) where there is nothing for the laser to be seen against. I purchased the bosch self leveling laser (about $80) so now i just have to figure out how to use it. Any suggestions for the areas that are not against a wall?
Thanks!
You dont need to be against the wall to see the laser it will show up on anything that is in its path. So hold the metal stud down low until you see the laser line on the side of the stud and then simply raise it until the laser is just beneath. Or hold your hand down lower and the laser line will be visible on your skin.
Set up the laser so the "line" is visible a couple inches below your joists. Use a gauge block (block cut to a precise length and/or with a line marked equidistant from both ends at that laser line).
Now that block will be used to line up the bottom of your furring for fastening by placing it on the bottom of whatever you use to fur down the joists.
You could not use a block and just go to a laser line which registers the bottom of your finished furring, but......
The minute one furring bottom gets below the line, your line will be blocked from view.
Bingo!
Yes, that's how i meant for the firring to be attached.
The issue was the existing joists were uneven / bowed / etc. By mounting the steel studs to the sides of the existing joists, you are able to make the most of the dead-on straight edge of the metal stud.
You're not 'firring' things out - you're making a flat plane for your ceiling.
Laser ... notw there's more to a layout tool than just a beam of light! Get a proper layout laser, and the machine will automatically level itself and project a line / rotating dot all across the basement, into every corner, with one set-up. Then it's a simple method of mounting the firring so the bottom edge just barely hits the laser line. This will place all the edges at exactly the same level.
Drywall is intended to be mounted with the studs / joists running the length of the board. It's a small point - in the real world, the stuff is often installed sideways - but you can see for yourself that it's more flexible in one direction than the other.
More important, the 'long' edges are tapered. This helps you to make a flat seam. That's why you try to avoid butt joints- there's no taper at the ends of the board.
reno
i have never heard board is meant to run with the joists, always perpendicular.
if he strapped the ceiling he could run the 12' board, all tapered field joints.
Thanks Calvin. I agree with you about the perpendicular part. Never heard it was "meant" to run with the joists.
I've run into a bit of a snag regarding my planned reno, but still want to understand this part of it just in case I go through with it. With your example, are you indicating that if I strapped the ceiling, that drywall could/should run perpendicular to the strapping and not the joists? If so, would this be the case if I used the typical 1x2 or 1x3 wood for it (rather than 2x4)?
Thanks!
pulper_11 wrote:
Thanks Calvin. I agree with you about the perpendicular part. Never heard it was "meant" to run with the joists.
I've run into a bit of a snag regarding my planned reno, but still want to understand this part of it just in case I go through with it. With your example, are you indicating that if I strapped the ceiling, that drywall could/should run perpendicular to the strapping and not the joists? If so, would this be the case if I used the typical 1x2 or 1x3 wood for it (rather than 2x4)?
Thanks!
yes, with the joists and perp to the strapping. Now you can run your sheets the short way so no butt joints.
1x3 would be a real easy strapping, 1x2 with good aim.
Never Heard ...
I have never heard the Star Spangle Banner played on a banjo - but that does not mean it's never been done!
Perpendicular "strapping" assumes a good, straight ceiling. You're trying to correct a very NOT straight ceiling. Do you intend to notch / shim every piece as it crosses every joist? Have fun!
The simple fact that FHB has already published an article showing my suggested method ought to give you pause. The drywall really doesn't care what direction the wood goes- only that you have the screws close enough together.
reno
Didn't say it was easy but no, you don't hack into the joists or the furring, you find the low spot and shim the rest down.
Not there to see the conditions either.
Usually there's several ways to correct framing problems, and the best viewing angle is at the job.
as to direction of drywall, I only run with the framing on stand up sheets or the occasional patching in. Otherwise it always is run across the framing. If nothing else it gives easy purchase to put those screws you mention. How long do you think you'd have to go without trimming the edge of a sheet that falls off layout.
There's only so many different notes in the National Anthem. What I really can't stand are performers that add a whole bunch of other notes at sporting events.
water level and jet line
You can check the level of your ceiling (or floor) very simply and cost effectively with a water level and jetline. Mankind has been using water to level structures at least since the Egyptians. String used as a builidng tool probably has the same history.
All it would take for your project is rougly a 20' length of 1/2" clear plastic tubing and some water. Estimated cost $10 or less-- and no worries about laser light injuries. Since your room is about 26 feet long, just set a temp. wood post in the center of your room as a story pole and make a convienent reference point at mid height and anywhere around the room (even around corners where a laser might not work). The quickest and easiest way is to mark all your wall corners and then snap reference chalk lines on all the walls. Now you have everything you need to work from in order to pull string lines in order to straighten and level your ceiling or floor. Use "jetline" instead of regular twisted or braided string. This is what acoustical ceiling pros use for level reference lines. It won't measurably sag over any length you need for your project.