Replies

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Jun 03, 2010 06:09am | #1

   IMO the paperless dw and mold scare thing is a big joke, unless you are going to elimate all  cellulose containing material from your basement. why bother with expensive paperless dw over wood framing. All mold needs is moisture and an organic food scource. Elimenate the moisture or control it and use what ever you want.

2. 
   Piffin | Jun 03, 2010 06:41am | #2

   Deal with the moisture first

   so to eliminate the mold, like Daid says, you have to eliminate all the other sources of food for it.

   So use steel studs... oops, those can rust in the same moist conditions that feed molds.

   I haven't seen FG studs yet...

   But if you have moisture, it is migrating to other places in the house to cause other problems - often in the attic - roof sheathing and insulation up there getting damaged...

   So find cause of moisture trouble and control  that first.

3. 
   DanH | Jun 03, 2010 07:59am | #3

   While the mold thing is often overblown, even a dry basement is going to be damper than elsewhere in the house, so a little extra "insurance" is worthwhile.  I'd give the paperless stuff a look-see, at least.

4. 
   renosteinke | Jun 05, 2010 11:42am | #4

   Mike Holmes (Holmes on Homes) is a big fan of the paperless drywall in such situations. I can't fault his reasoning.

   More important, I STRONGLY recommend a few changes to the usual methods of hanging drywall when you're doing it in the basement.

   Simply put, even a minor flood or leak, one where there is less than a 1/2" of water on the floor, will wick up into and destroy the lower 8" of gypsum. The trick is to keep the drywall a couple inches above the floor, and hide / fill the gap with plastic molding and cove base.

   Ditto for any panelling or masonite you plan to use - don't let them run all the way to the floor. Likewise, there is no reason for insulation to go all the way down ... stop it a foot short.

   While I suggest you use light steel framing, rather than wood, I also want to point out that the bottom track will trap water - so each stud bay should have a small drain/weep hole punched into it with an awl.

   I know not you flooring plans, but if you want carpet, I suggest using some area rugs; if they get wet, you can roll them up and take them outside to dry on the driveway.

1. 
   Kevin_D | Jun 09, 2010 11:50am | #5

   Holmes...

   Mike Holmes is a fan of any product that his show tells him to be.

   He is also not always right either. 

   He's a big fan of PEX tubing, and that product has a lot of problems compared to copper. 

   I'm not saying that paperless drywall is bad, but do your own research. 

1. 
   fingers | Jun 12, 2010 06:03pm | #7

   "He's a big fan of PEX

   "He's a big fan of PEX tubing, and that product has a lot of problems compared to copper."

   I've used a lot of copper and I'm using more and more pex.  Educate me please.

5. 
   renosteinke | Jun 11, 2010 10:30pm | #6

   At the risk of sending this thread off on a tangent, I must object, in the strongest of terms, to baseless attacks on another- especially when that person isn't here to defend themselves.

   I do not know Mike Holmes, and I cannot speak as to whatever commercial arrangements he (or his production company) may have. Yet, to simply assert, to assume, that his opinions are inherently dishonest because of speculated commercial ties is simply libelous.

   I can personally speak to the issue of mold in basements. I have seen mold bloom within 24 hrs. of the carpet and drywall getting wet. There is plenty of reason to take great efforts to prevent mold from getting a foothold. Paperless drywall removes one of the materials that welcomes mold: paper.

   As for the drywall needing 'only' a half-inch of clearance, I must comment in some more detail. Basement floors, even seemingly 'flat' ones, typically have substantial waviness to them. It is very possible that a half-inch clearance at one point will still allow contact at another.

1. 
   Kevin_D | Jun 14, 2010 03:11pm | #8

   Ok, well how about this then.

   On two separate episodes, while "correcting stupid contractor mistakes" he shows his crew doing stupid things. 

   1. They left wood in the concrete, a big no no. Inspectors get mad if you even have to break off a wood stake, let alone a whole 2x12 of formwork; that's why metal stakes are used. 

   2. They didn't even use treated sill plate in a basement. He does use a sill gasket, but he says the sill gasket is "In case it floods." Really? I thought a sill gasket was to fill irregularities and act as a impermeable membrane. Especially since if it floods, it's going to likely flood more than 1/4" Good thing he used a P.T plate... oh wait. The reason you need an impermeable membrane is because concrete wicks up water. I'm not even a contractor, and I could school the expert...

   I'm sure if I watch I could find more. 

   How do you know he's not on this forum? That is also an assumption, and maybe he needs to be, since he doesn't know everything. 

   Furthermore his show makes no disclosure as to sponsors that I have seen. Financial experts have to disclose if they own the stocks they promote, maybe he should disclose any financial incentives to promote products if he doesn't want assumptions as to his motives. 

6. 
   DaveRicheson | Jun 14, 2010 04:23pm | #9

   Steel framing's generally a good idea, but it can be difficult to work with in situation like a basement remodel where there's a lot of odd fitting to be done.

   I think Calvin will chime in here on that one.

   I find light weight steel framing to be a lot easier to use in basements because of the many odd things to fit around. It is cleaner, and much more forgiving than wood framing that has to be cut exactly everytime. A couple of pinch clamps, a handfull of screws and a tight string line will produce a straighter soffit around, duct, pipe, etc. much faster than most can frame with wood.

   I've done a bunch of basements with steel studs over the years and can honestly say that for the HO that wants to use them, the only downside is knowing how to, or finding someone that knows how tp properly run wiring in them.

   Calvin posted several pictures of basemet jobs he has done over the years. They are a testament to steel studs.

1. 
   calvin | Jun 14, 2010 07:44pm | #10

   Dave-here's the steel link.

   For whoever needed to take a look.

   http://www.quittintime.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5253/an/0/page/0#Post5253

   I agree with everything you posted about using steel in a basement finish.  Anything that seems might be a problem using steel can easily be remedied with thought and tips.

   The wiring delemma is no problem using the plastic grommets in the prepunched holes (along with cutting all your studs from the same end so the holes line up).    There's peel and stick standoffs for holding the wire to the side of the stud (tho inspectors have not flinched at taping the wire to the sides)  Box mounting has also been easy'd up.  There are specific boxes with tabs and hangers attached so there's no flex in the drywall (tab on back to brace it against other side drywall).  You can of course mount a stud scrap to the other side of the box to flank it and this holds if off the backside board also.

7. 
   Amish Electrician | Jun 15, 2010 09:34pm | #11

   It really matters not what Mr. HBolmes' faults are, or what you think of him.

   The only issue is whether his position regarding paperless drywall was accuartely reported.

   Beyond that ... if you want to debate Mike Holmes .... start your own thread.

1. 
   Kevin_D | Jun 17, 2010 10:02am | #12

   If you read my first post it says, "Do your own research".

   All I said was not to take his advice without doing research yourself.

8. 
   user-7449872 | Jun 17, 2010 06:01pm | #13

   Paperless drywall usually requires a skim coat.  otherwise you get a texture difference from the joint compound.

   Check this out:  http://www.insofast.com  , pricey, but makes a lot of sense.

   Have you looked at FHB #169 - best reference for this