I’ve seen regular drywall mud and lite drywall mud at Home Depot. What’s the difference? Is one better than the other? I’ll be doing a lot of taping and mudding in the near future.
Thanks,
IMSA
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I use the Green top bucket for bedding tape/mesh. It is heavier and stronger. I usually finish the seams and corners with the Blue top bucket because that product can be spread smoother, and it takes less time to dry. HD also caries a product in a gray bucket that is supposed to keep the sanding dust down. It does, and performs like a cross between the green and blue, but it is very susceptible to damage from hands/etc. It must be primed almost immediately.
regular all purpose mud is stronger because it has more binder in the mix. The lightweight easy sand is whipped up more and has less binder to make it easier to sand, but that also makes it easier to ding and damage, thus the need to immediately get a coat of paint rolled or sprayed on.
Never use the easy sand for bedding and first coat of tape. The lack of binder can mean a failure of the seams looms in the future. Only use if for final top coat.
I prefer Durabond setting type for filling and bedding the tape, then move sometimes to all purpose. I only use easy sand occasionally anymore since you can scratch it with a knuckle.
Learn to use you rdrywall knife well and sanding is kept to a minimum anyway
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Learn to use you rdrywall knife well and sanding is kept to a minimum anyway
Amen to that. I never understood the people who lay on the heavy coats of mud, then sand half of it back off after it dries. I'd rather approach "perfection" gradually with a couple thin coats and fill in missed spots than sand off extra.
Pif,
I'm with you 100% on all that you've said. I'd like to point out however that USG recommends their lightweight JC (blue bucket) for bedding and taping.
http://usg.com/navigate.do?resource=/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/products/prod_details/SHEETROCK_Brand_Plus_3_Lightweight_All_Purpose_Joint_Compound.htm
Don't care much for it myself except in the most lightweight applications (skimming ceileings e.g.)
Well, everyone's got their opinions, I'll let them have theirs;)
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I appreciate the comments. Next question is
+
-+
I appreciate the comments. My local Home Depot carries Beadx (sp?) drywal mud. I have a few more questions. Should I use paper tape or the self adhesive mesh tape? I'm going to use bull nose corners and saw 2 types of corner material at Home Depot. One was just a metal bull nose corner and the other was a metal bull nose corner with paper attached . Which is better?
Thanks,
IMSA
The only time mesh tape is any good, IMO, is under deep fills of setting-type compound. That pretty much limits you to the taper edges in new work. I also put mesh over my bead flanges before hot-mudding them, just for extra crack insurance.For bucket mud, definitely use paper tape for the greater strength. It is also less of a pain if you happen to sand into it later.As for the bullnose bead, I prefer the paper-wrapped stuff. It holds the mud and the paint better than the straight metal beads.Ditto Piffin on not using the blue top compound for taping. Too weak.Bill
What is setting compound, I only see the blue and green buckets of compound around here. I sure wish they would make a better system for taping. If they could make a stronger, higher quality mesh tape that you could use on the butt ends of rock, my job would be easier. I would like to see a paper tape that is adhesive based also, even after 30 years I worry about the tape peeling. The only time I ever have problems is when I use the mesh tape though, a very fine crack sometimes occur.
Here's a PDF from USG about drywall finishnig. I either got this off BT or off their website.It may have some info that you'll find useful
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"What is setting compound, I only see the blue and green buckets of compound around here."Setting compound comes dry in a bag. You need to mix it up with water as you use needed. It comes in 20,45, and 90 minuite times (maybe some others). Typically you have about 2/3 of that time as working time. And you need to clean your tools up as soon as it starts to harden.Common brands available around here are Durabond and EasySand.The EasySand is a "lighter" weight version of Durabond that can be sanded..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was walking around the lumber yard this morning and I saw bags of Durabond 90. I never paid any attention to bags of compound, why mix when they have the stuff in buckets.I assume the 90 is stronger and harder to sand than regular compound? I guess you still can not use the 90 with fiber mesh on the butt ends of rock, can you?What is the recoat time interval, is it much faster than compound?
"I assume the 90 is stronger and harder to sand than regular compound?"That is what I understand."I guess you still can not use the 90 with fiber mesh on the butt ends of rock, can you?" Why not?I hate mesh tape. It is much thick and it (or at least me) it has too much of a tendency to show through.I only like to use it for covering holes and gaps. Not for covering joints."What is the recoat time interval, is it much faster than compound?"Much faster. Depending on the tempature, etc it will be just a little longer than the package labeled time.Now if you are using EasySand it might be some more time until it can be sanded because it might still be damp and the dust will gum up.It is great for repairs. For example with 45 minute you can put on two coats and then top with lightweight in 2 hours. They come back the next day and touch up sand and paint. For even with some fans you can be painting later that day..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
There is a self-adhesive paper tape available. Home Depot carries it. I use it all the time for small repairs. I don't recommend it for whole sheets because it's not as strong as regular bedded tape. However, it MIGHT work. I've done the butt joints for a some basement drywall jobs (semi-finished basements) and there's been no cracking... yet.
-Don
I've been using that alot where I'm not trying to build up mud. Great for newbs like me. Goes on like a sticker, and you cover it with setting compound. It has holes in it so the compound adhears to the wall too.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Thanks, I will check it out later today.
The problem is not with the strength of the tape. The tape is too strong, but it does not bond as well to the paper face of the sr, so any movement from humidity, thermal change, or house sttling will stress the joint, and that shows up at the edge of the FG woven tape as a hairline crack
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I always felt the mesh should be a little thicker and more tightly woven, then it would be a better product. Any cracks that I have seen were between the sheets, not on the edge of the mesh.I am going to buy some Durabond 90 and experiment with it, I have to a 10 sheet ceiling next week. I am covering up a homasote ceiling, it did not hold up well at all, peeling seams every where.Why do you feel the 90 will be faster to work with? I love finding faster and better ways to get jobs done.
If your looking for a heavier tape, you could use stucco tape, or double tape fiberglass.
The other thing about setting/hot mud is you don't get the shrinkage that premix gives you.
I'll tkae a shot at this as I am in the same camp as Paul regarding coating, not sanding.
To the best of my knowledge, fiber tape is fine with setting type compounds. It is a bit crabby on butts, but I think paper is worse especially if you have a high butt joint. You may NOT use bucket mud/taping compound to set fiber tape!!!!
I prefer Durabond. Usually D90.
Heres what I do. I apply fiber mesh tape (blue if I can get it, it's stronger) to all the butts first, then the tapers or long joints. I'll mud them over with D90 and a six inch knife.
Corners are always paper and I will likely use bucket mud, ie taping compound (green) to set the paper. I've used D90 to set paper tape and I just don't like the way the knife pulls or the feel of it. The mud does not squeeze out as easily as taping compund.
Second coat all around will be D90. A good hand and eye and you will not have to worry about sanding. If you catch the timing just right you can go around and shave off lumps, high spots or other defects with a six inch knife.
I usually third and skim with green lid taping compound. I really, really try not to sand. I skim, maybe thin some taping compound out and go over the ridges or imperfections with long thin coats.
I've painted and have had others paint my taping jobs with little or no complaints.
Oh, the "taping" tools you see at the boxes are absolute garbage, crap, junk. Period.
Find a drywall supplier in your area and invest in some professional taping tools. I use a six in knife to set and for skimming/touch up. 14in curved TROWEL for second coat. 12 or 16 in flat TROWEL for finishing and cornerbeads.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I guess there is always something new to learn in carpentry. I have never used Durabond 90 before but I will try it on my next job. I am not a novice at sheet rocking though, been hanging it for over 30 years.I have good drywall tools, all stainless steel to 24 inches. I never got into trowels except for doing concrete work.I always have to sand the compound though, I don't know how anybody can get a perfectly featureless wall or ceiling with just knifes or trowels. I would really like to see that done.
I don't know how anybody can get a perfectly featureless wall or ceiling with just knifes or trowels.
I'm not using those exact words.
Good primer and two full coats of color on top. I've done it and it looks very good. Sometimes I will sweep a pole with 180 or 220 black paper over everything just to even up the surface.
Level 5? No, of course not. But then, drywall these days has features built right in to the paper sometimes![email protected]
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I know you did not say you never sand, I was just wondering about the people who have said it. I have heard it for years in this business but never seen it myself.One thing I use is high velocity fans to keep the customers home absolutely dust free. I own 12 fans and the biggest, 24" will pull 7000 cubic feet of air per minute. With 3 of these going you hardly need a dust mask.
The fan is the best..........here's a couple of pics of a bath I'm finishing up. Of course being a small room it's easy to almost coat the whole room!
Just to give you an idea of how my technique finishes out. Of course, you cannot depict texture here.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
It is faster because it sets in ninety minutes. With col humid weqather, regular mud can take two days before you get to recoat it, but Durabond 90 - you mix it, use it, clean up, and take coffee, then mix some more, use it, and clean tools then take lunch. After lunch, mix another batch, use it, clean up, and have afternoon coffee break, then knock down, sand and go home. Cieling is done. That is a three day job with premixed.Where you have filling, like from wider gaps with sloppy SR hangers or what you have to get into in remo work, the DB is much harder than premiwedBTW, Durabond is extremely hard to sand so either get it right on the application,or use Easysand 90 for final coat. Some guys use a wet sponge at just the right time is the setting process to knock down the rough spots
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re setting timeDB45 is formulated to set in about 45 minutesDB60 in an hour
DB90 in ninety minutes
etcI;ve had some DB 240 or something like that and have heard of DB20 or 15.Add hot water to DB60 and you'll barely have time to spoon it onto the wall before it is kicking though. Add very cold water and it could take a few minutes longer than an hour.I used to carry a bag of Easysand 45 for repairs and patches. I could have a hole in a wall done and the wall painted and drops picked up by 2PM
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This Durabond sounds great, you should of told me about it years ago. I will pick up a couple of speeds and try them out. I already priced the job for three days of compounding, maybe with Durabond I will be able to cut the time way down and make more money on the job. Thanks
Where is Chesire?
I'm in NY just over the CT border arounf Sherman and New Fairfield, about ten minutes from Danbury.
I'll be 49 on March 04.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
If you're just experimenting with setting compounds, use the EasySand.
It sets like the DuraBond, but if you don't get it on smooth, you CAN sand it pretty easily. IMO, it's a lot more forgiving to work with than DuraBond.
Plus, I use the EasySand 45, which sets up in 1/2 the time the DuraBond 90 takes.
"What is setting compound"it is a dry mix that you add water to and the chemical reaction sets in. It cures, like concrete, does not dry like premixed mud. It is far stronger and faster once you get used to it.
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You already got the answer about a dozen times over! Another advantage to setting mud is that it is way more water resistant than bucket mud. Areas subject to occasional wetting survive much better with hot mud.I use the Easysand 20 a lot for small repairs/deep fills, and 90 for larger areas. One can intermix the speeds for intermediate setting time. They sell a 5 minute product that I don't much like. It is hard to mix and too fast for almost everything, unless it is really chilly on the job.Bill
Thanks for leaving room in your post to write in my answwers...;)self stick tape is for repairs only IMHO. Use paper and don't push too hard and squeeze out too much of the mud or it will not adhere well either and will bubble away from the surface.the metal/paper corners
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Yes, again I'm with you on this one. This is making me think of other instances where the manufacturer's recommendations don't make sense to me and/or to my application. Was wondering if there's anough on that subject to discuss in a new thread.
I usually use "Pro Form" all purpose and thin it just a bit with water.
I don't even mess with the soap thingy. I don't need it...seems like a waste of time. I've tried it and it makes little differance to me.
I just use three thin coats and apply it with well worn in blades (I hate new knives!). I control the blades pressure with two fingers.
I'm finishing up a nice sized room above my shop with sloped ceilings tomorrow.
The "only" sanding I'll have to do is to knock off some of the edges.
Practice and paying attention and patience goes a long way.
I also flip out if anyone even breaths on my knives never mind uses them!! They're sharper than a razor blade and I want no nicks in em'!
Thats the way that I like my blades while I think some prefere a newer edge. What ever lets you work best is right.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Some of the worst cuts I've ever had are from the edges of my spackling tools
The joint compound seems to act like a honing paste on the steel
My six in knife scares me...........I was pulling mud across a ceiling corner and lost my grip on the knife. I instictively reached to catch it and ended up with 4 stiches.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Green to bed and blue to finish. Always mix your mud well with a large paddle and strong geared down drill, it gets rid of any air bubbles and makes it smooth. I like to add about 2c of water to a fresh bucket of mud before I mix. That usually gives me the right consistancy.
Do large crack repairs with the setting type stuff like Durabond. I use Plaster of Paris with a little JC, but you have to be quick with it, because you have about a ten minute open work time.
I always use paper tape. Stay away from the gimmicky stuff. Fiberglass tape I only use when plastering...but that's a whole other thing.
Andy's right about the knives. Old is better, but you can buy a new one and carefully grind the edges and sides so they are rounded a bit and can slice roast beef. I like to have a slight bent curve in the longer knives so I can choose which side to use depending on what part of the joint I'm mudding.
Lay it on thin and build up the layers, don't try and finish it in one pass like the novices do. As you're running the mud you will eventually learn about pressuring one side or the other of the knife so the mud will have a nice feather to it.
More than anything, taping just takes practice.