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Hi
When drywalling on walls, I always see it done horizontally. But that leaves butt-joints in full view. I hate mudding butt-joints.
Running drywall vertically leaves only tappered joints up and down the walls. Is there anything “wrong” with this way? BTW, the house is sheathed with 3/4 tongue and groove so I dont need racking stability.
Bobby
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Replies
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horizontal.....
use longer sheets.. no butt joints
*Mike's right. Just stagger the joints. Racking stability? From drywall?MD
*You can glue and screw drywall for some slight racking resistance. I have seen this used with foam sheathing and plywood corners. Never did like this system myself but some do.
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Okay Mike, but some rooms are longer than longest drywall sheet.
Just would like to understand WHY drywall is run horizontally on walls?
Bobby
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Bobby. The only reason drywallers started running sheets horisontally was, as Mike stated, so that you could use longer sheets and eliminate butt joints. Since then, as you have mentioned, houses seem to be growing and rooms sometimes are longer than whatever the maximum length drywall that is available in your area. (I have worked in places where they simply did not have anything longer than 12 feet! I have also used sheets that were 20 feet long. You can imagine how much fun those were to handle!) Anyway, in answer to your question, there is absolutly nothing wrong with hanging drywall vertically, it is really more of a matter of the taper's preference than anything once you get beyond the butt-joint issue.
*If you hang your board vertically you will have only tapered joints to tape, true, but you will have one every 4 feet, floor to ceiling. As you look around the room, or down the hallway especially, you will see the shadows as light travels across all these vertical joints. If you hang it horizontally, you will have far fewer vertical joints and they will only be 4 feet long. Hang it horizontal and use butt strips on the studs adjacent to the butt joints. Pull your mud out two 10 or 12" knives wide, that's the best way, that's why it's the industry standard. (I've never heard of 20' board, but you wouldn't catch me packin' that big a sheet. Geez, that must weigh a ton.)
*Here's a trick everyone probably already knows. For kitchens, start with a ripped piece(2'x8') at the top of the wall. Put a full piece under that(fills the middle half of the wall) and put the other half along the floor. Now your horizontal seams will fall mostly hidden by the upper and lower cabinets. On rental rehabs we just tape and one coat the seams to save labor costs.On residential remodels ya better float everything just in case the new cab.s are replaced by even newer in a few short years. Personally I don't have a problem with running horizontal or vertical on walls, you shouldn't be able to find the seams either way! Ceilings are a different matter, drywall does have a grain direction, go perpendicular to the joists. Jeff
*Jeff man, I got 35.00 for sending that one about splitting the first sheet in to "Tips & Techniques" about 15 years ago. Later, they put it in a "T&T" compilation book, too.
*So Jim, do I get my half in the mail or should I wait for PeTeFeSt to collect the $17.50? Or do I have to pay you a royality for trying to use your idea? Jeff
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Go vertical, use fiberglass tape and acoustic glue, invest in a good stepstool.
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I don't think there are many "new ideas" in our profession Jeff. That has been reinforced by reading this board for the past year. Let's call it square and I'll buy you a beer at Petefest, how's that?
*What is acoustic glue?JonC
*It's just an adhesive product that 'sounds' good. How does 'mud' sound?
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Bobby, in addition to the reasons already posted, sheetrock is run horizontally to keep the majority of the joints below the eye level of a standing adult.
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It's not just a question of butt joints or no butt joints.
Devin jean-louis says go vertical, but fails to warn you that you will have 50% more taping to do on an eight foot wall that is 16 feet long.
Horizontal installation uses significantly less tape, and less mud. It therefore issignificantly faster.
One other important factor has also been overlooked. "Hanging" drywall is just that...you hang it. It floats over the inevitably bowed studs. Most drywall glues will "shim" or bridge up to 3/8". A horizontal installation will automatically float over the low spots, while a vertical installation may require you to nail a vertical seam tightly to a bowed stud. It is a lot more likely to mirror the underlying bowed studs with vertical sheets nailed tight every four feet.
A good hanger will watch closely and avoid breaking a butt joint on a high stud. If he manages to place the butt joint on a low stud, he can actually duplicate the effects of a tapered joint.
My vote obviously goes to the horizontal application. Around here, nobody puts any nails in the field (on the walls) and we rarely have stucco ceilings.
I did run into one nutty crew that always ran their ceiling parallel with the trusses and ceiling joist. They claimed that the light from the windows cast shadows on the tapered joints and made them stand out. I asked them what they did about light from lamps at night...no reply.
Goofy!
blue
*Interesting. Someone a while ago made the point that with vertical it's hard to trowel a joint from ceiling to floor in one swipe.The strength advantage is significant -- the drywall is more than twice as strong with the grain, ie installed horizontally. Anyone remember my href=http://webx.taunton.com/WebX?13@@.ee829ea/38>experiment?Blodgett, you spent the $35 yet? Wonder how many times different carpenters get the same great idea for the first time?
*Howdy, Blue just said it all, the horizontal application is the way to minimize the visual aftermath caused by normal and expected lumber movement. The way the product is sold speaks for itself, if the industry as a whole hung the stuff vertically, then it would be sold in wall height lengths and your supplier would give you a funny look when you asked for twelves or sixteens. For historical purposes, I think the vertically hung application is a perversion from 50's - 60's do-it-yourself basement remodels when a lot of 4x8 paneling got nailed up and when the boys got to the sheetrock, not knowing any better, they installed that standing up too. I have come across more than one ancient(40 yr.old)job of obviously amateur ranking that had drywall on end. Sometimes bad methods have a way of propogating like weeds.'nuff said,Louis
*I've done alot of commercial work (metal studs) the only thing we really had to watch for was that we staggered the verticle joints on opposing sides . I would think that this rule would apply w/ conventional framing.?!
*Hey Blue...I think you could be off slightly on your calculation. A 16' long wall, with the drywall hung horizontally, has two corner seams, one seam at ceiling, and one 16' seam across the total length of the wall (48' total length of seams)Vertical installment on same wall has 2 corner seams, 1 ceiling seam, and 3 vertical wall seams (5 seams at 8' length/height, 1 seam at 16' length = 56' of seams)This leaves a difference of 8' (equal to 1 vertical seam)So... would it not be (roughly) 20% to 25% more taping to do instead of 50%?Just wondering out loud... it's late, I'm tired, and ain't thinkingclearly.James DuHamel
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Here In Australia the standard sheet size for domestic work is 6 metres (20 feet)in 10mm &13mm
all sheets are hung horizontaly,steel framed commercial work can go ether way, in hi-rise as all sheets are craned up, sheet sizes are kept to a minimum for handling reasons and are therefore more likely to go vertical with 27s (9 footers).
One of the best reasons for a horizontal hang that seemed to go compleatly with out comment was the glancing light issue raised by Mr Jim "crazy legs" Blodget (11:38 May 16), while a totaly seam free finish is almost unobtainable, redusing the chance of light chatching a joint, no matter how well it has been trowelled, is something that should be addressed.
The most obvious joins in the house are usualy in the smallest room in the house (the toilet) this is due to two things, the first is that light come in through a window about the same width of the room and travels down the wall throwing shadows everwhere and it is the shadows that you see as imperfections, the second reason is that you have 10 mins with nothing else to do but look for those imperfections.
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James,
He may have figured the ceiling and corner seams as constants and not included them in the comparison, since they'll be there no matter how you hang the board.
That said, excluding the constant seams and just comparing the variable seams in the field of the wall...horizontal hanging would give you a single 16' seam. Vertical hanging would give you three 8' seams, 24' total, thus the 50% increase in seams.
I hate to try make "what I think he meant" posts, but that was how I interpreted his comments.
Regards, Mongo
*peter .... is your nickname ((speedy)))?
*Hey Mongo,I'd be willing to bet you are right.I just read a little more into it (it was late, I was tired, etc...)The USG site gives a 25% less seams OVERALL ratio when refering to hanging horizontal. This is the method they recoomend for walls. Of course, they are talking a whole house, not a 16' wall. When you start getting into lengths of walls that are odd, the ratio would probably change a bit.Oh well, what do I know...James DuHamel
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Mike I don't understand, 10 mins x 4 times a day, no problem.
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Hi
When drywalling on walls, I always see it done horizontally. But that leaves butt-joints in full view. I hate mudding butt-joints.
Running drywall vertically leaves only tappered joints up and down the walls. Is there anything "wrong" with this way? BTW, the house is sheathed with 3/4 tongue and groove so I dont need racking stability.
Bobby
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You figured me exactly right Mongo.
Actually, the percentages get worse on shorter walls. Take for instance an 8' 4" wall. Vertical hangers will be forced to tape 16'. Horizontal hangers only do 8.3' Thats very close to twice as much!
blue